I have a sincere double question:
Do Gankers / trollers should and/or are punished for their behavior in pvp?
I talk primarly to people that exploit falling damage and super troller strategies on certain maps to score kills, ignoring everything else that happens on the map. there are also often premades of 2-3 ppls that focus on this.
I know that as they says.. in love and war all is permitted but.. i despise this dirty tricks so i don't care if i am called puny (i swear that in one on one i can pull my punches and get my revenge and when i am at number disavantage i just dont care even trying doing something) but i always report these behaviors. Do i lose my time?
Gankers / Trollers
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01-12-2021, 02:49 AMGartenGankers / Trollers
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01-12-2021, 03:57 AMCanadane
That's just strategy at play. It's not dirty to take advantage of a situation. If someone doesn't want to die after taking fall damage, don't fall!
The few places where that is even applicable, there's usually sub-ledges or a nearby ramp to get down anyway.
And while you can report players for whatever you want, this isn't in any way rule breaking. If you want the honest answer to your question, yes you likely wasted your time with that.
Things that are against the rules would be stuff like non-participation of intentional feeding yourself to the enemy.
Report people that do that. -
01-12-2021, 07:10 AMCidel
This... Isn't trolling behavior in PvP... At all. It's a viable strat to securing kills in Secure and Shatter that mostly only newbs and shmucks fall for (are you carelessly chasing that lone tank in Shatter over the southeast cliff area? Yeah, enjoy your stun+knockback death). My advice is to be wary of all tanks in high-elevated areas in Secure and Shatter- and MCHs, they possess a knockback as well; don't allow yourself to be within like 20 feet of a cliff when engaging them because they'll likely be waiting for the chance to immobilize you and knock you off for a fast kill.
"Ganking" (and ignoring objectives?) isn't trolling either, and arguably its the most effective way of securing quick kills but if you notice few people participating in it, they are a liability for their team at worst and a distraction at best. If they get away with it for a long period of time and manage to somehow farm a significant battle high- that says more about the quality of your team than them. When a large group (read: no less than 1 full party) performs this, then its harder to deal with and is what I guess they call a "murder ball." It's frustrating, but if they managed to herd the cats that is a Frontlines team into doing it, good on them; that's why the kill streak bonuses exist. Full premades doing this was a problem, which is why we're now limited to parties of 4, which is less out-of-hand should they decide to go this route
tldr: yes, you are wasting your time. -
01-12-2021, 08:00 AMEsmoireYou can't really report it, though I will say it's probably shitty game design in terms of effect on gameplay for the people who think camping there is a good idea and recourse for the victim after they've been two-shotted, both for the player performing it and the player receiving it. Most you can do is voice your opinions on it and if enough players agree with you, it might get changed. Otherwise you shouldn't really be wasting the time of the support staff. I also do not recommend going for revenge... they are doing it specifically to get attention to and you are giving it to them, so it only yields a greater outcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garten
For my part in general I hate fall damage in almost any game it exists in with just how uncool it is, especially fantasy. FFXIV is no exception and I am not a fan of it in PvE or PvP. -
01-12-2021, 05:53 PMTlamila
It's just a kill strategy...inside a PvP mode. If you're in there you know people will kill you unless you avoid being killed or kill them first. I don't get what's report-worthy about it at all.
And cliffs and such in PvP exist for that purpose, not for landscaping. -
01-12-2021, 06:04 PMAstrophysx
Push-back off a cliff for a kill is a fair tactic.
The counter tactic: Don't fight players with jobs that have push back next to a cliff.
So when you are going up ramps or crossing a land bridge where you can fall over the side, if you see an MCH or tank, don't proceed any further! Go the other direction, or bait them out of the area of vulnerability.
This is why I always teach POSITIONING in PvP before anything else to my FC mates or anyone wanting to learn PvP. If the positioning is wrong, you're DEAD. XD
The best positioning in the situation you mentioned = any place where you can't get pushed off to your death. -
01-12-2021, 07:51 PMGenz
Fall damage was a random addition during beta, when the devs were still imagining making a mmorpg with relevant open world.
Now we know that open world is as good as dead, and fall damage in instanced content has been dropped too (in the dungeon Hullbreaker Isle, there is this cliff where players got down to 1 hp, wait for heal, continue... it was stupid, so they removed the damage from falling)
PvP is the only content where fall damage still matter, but it shows how the devs backtracked on it since it's really prominent only in Secure (the oldest frontline map).
Fall damage should just be removed at this point because its relevance is so random.
Also, from a simple design point of view, pushing player away (without damage) is already a very strong action. -
01-12-2021, 11:29 PMGartenYeah this is EXACTLY what sometimes i see happening in shatter lol, usually i see two MCH doing this but often there are tanks too.. Also another new that i am seeing recently is WAR using Wolfgang (or whatever is called) on Borderland ruin secure, when people are going up the stairs, they pull you to your death in the little ravine between the stairs and the central elevated area..Quote:
Originally Posted by Cidel
I guess i'm just gonna evade this people and try to tell other to do the same thanks. -
01-15-2021, 01:04 PMBloodRubyXIIThis is a normal way to play, what else did you think those abilities were used for other than basic peel lol. It's PvP and if you focus objectives without PvPing, you'll get smacked around 1v2 later on when you have no Battle High I see it all the time, it's pretty normal for groups of people to take a backseat from objectives, gank hard and then steamroll mid-late game. Stop standing on the edge of cliffs tbh lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garten
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01-20-2021, 11:09 AMShpy
This thread is great.
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01-21-2021, 06:43 AMIDontPetLalas
I agree, this thread is funny as hell. It's PVP, when it happened to me , I didn't know what the hell happened, but it was my fault for being out of position. The person doing it exploited the terrain to his/her advantage, and I give them credit for it.
Now, someone could camp and cliff, and that would be detrimental to their team. is that an exploit? No, but unless you roll with a full pre-made then in theory you could get "that guy" on your team. Personally I would ask them to move on, but if they ignore me I wouldn't harass them. Likely the other teams would take care of him anyway sooner or later (or they should!). -
01-21-2021, 07:35 AMAnhra
I think there should be more dangerous hazard than just cliffs where you can kicked down, like lava, explosives or even destrucible terrain that can not only instantly kill multiple people if dropped correctly timed, but also block pathways.
Also, you can only blame yourself for getting gank ambushed by sirtankalot and his ninjaguard. -
01-24-2021, 01:09 AMGarten
I get it but the problem is that i cant almost doing nothing against it.. at least in borderland secure.. you too guys just told me the only 2 things that can be done:
1) dont go there
2) move in team
if i dont go there then i can not play at all lol.. or just take the bases? and never go mid...
if i move in team i get wolfganged either way and if my team does not care then i just can go shoot myself...
do you wanna tell me that i have to do a premade to play borderland?
what i mean is that this is like a ONE-shot move that should not exist in my opinion.. as other said before i can understand in shatter when people is so stupid that get baited in the little cliff and then trown down.. but on secure i shouldnt be oneshotted just because i went on a ramp.. at least they should change the 100% dmg on fall in a 99% one -
01-24-2021, 01:16 AMGartenOut of position? Like when you are moving with all your team but just you are wolfganged from the ramp down to your demise? xDQuote:
Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas
ok i guess i'll just stay in base DEFENDING and getting my exp and tomes then? is that the right position? -
01-25-2021, 04:33 AMDivinemightsThe answer is neither.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garten
WAR cliff combo is laughable at best; especially for those that using Weapon Throw to pullback people from cliff.
This type of War basically will not win in any close range combat (well, that DPS need to be average at least)
In order to use their Weapon Throw, they will need to put themselves into spell range; in another word, he is in your spell range as well.
You will need 1 x good Warrior.
Warrior with target macro (put that cliff guy's name) use inner release at ramp and Holmgang him off the cliff, he will fall off to the bottom with 1 to 5% hp left and unable to move during Holmgang effect
Put a call sign on him and it will end.
If he is hiding in that cliff area, answer is the same, but use two Wars this time
One War run in and Holmgang him out of his current position, another WAR then Holmgang him again into your alliance location.
Put call sign on him and he will end there.
Holmgang has no DR and can not be avoid by Inner Rage; use it wisely
Like I said, FF14 Frontline is about strategy; be creative, the answer is always there. -
01-25-2021, 08:24 AMAstrophysxIf you're talking about Secure, getting pulled/pushed off the ramp by a WAR on the way up to the top of mid (with you being chosen as the target among your team) is still fair. I respectfully disagree, the damage dealt should be 100%. But that's my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garten
It happens, but nothing serious. You can remedy a death by getting a kill for yourself anytime throughout the match... or that WAR dies once to any of your teammates, that also makes things even.
Anyway, Secure is best played when you have 1 alliance going left to cap, 1 alliance going mid to kill nodes, and 1 alliance going right to cap. The only time everyone should go mid is when the large tower node spawns, where everyone's DPS is needed to take the most points from it. This is how it's played in JP, which is the optimal.
With that in mind, if you die from getting knocked off a ramp while going mid... just respawn and go left or right to sneak a cap (NA/EU), or help an alliance steal-or-defend a cap (JP). The other option is to rejoin your team, and go on a killing spree to get Battle High 5... basically wipe out anyone that gets in your way.
1 death from getting knocked off a ramp means absolutely nothing if you have 2 kills more. And if you widen that Kill-to-Death ratio with high damage output consistently, your win rate will most likely be higher than 33.33% even if you queue Frontlines solo. That's because higher kills/assists/damage translate to more PRESSURE against the opposition. The more that you (and your teammates) get Battle High, the easier it is to get the objectives, and the higher the chance to win the match.
Got knocked off a ramp? Respond with getting 16, or 17, or 18, or 19, hell... just get 20+ kills above that death. XD Don't know how to get that many kills? It's time to learn how to PvP. ^_^