Just saw the end of 1.0

There's some vids with all cutscenes in the original MSQ, that's 2 hours more that I hope will explain what I just saw...

Was the really big spell, "the trick at Cardinau"? Did they summon 12? The 12? Or is that what was talked about in coils and when susako showed up, the ultimate stasis spell, only this time it failed?


How do the pieces that retcon backwards (coils, and flashbacks) fit around this?

The final moment is the heros, (and as many others as possible) being teleported to "safe" somewhere, to keep hope alive?

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

There's some vids with all cutscenes in the original MSQ, that's 2 hours more that I hope will explain what I just saw...

Was the really big spell, "the trick at Cardinau"? Did they summon 12? The 12? Or is that what was talked about in coils and when susako showed up, the ultimate stasis spell, only this time it failed?


How do the pieces that retcon backwards (coils, and flashbacks) fit around this?

The final moment is the heros, (and as many others as possible) being teleported to "safe" somewhere, to keep hope alive?

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Yes, the 'trick at Carteneau' that Gaius references in Praetorium was a 'partial summoning' of the Twelve by Louisoix using the faith of the Eorzeans as the basis.

Because it was a 'partial summoning', it did not make the summoned entities sentient, so they could not enthrall people including the summoner. Louisoix had originally intended to use the 'partially-summoned' Twelve's power to push back Dalamud into space, but Bahamut broke free before that could happen, so Lousioix instead tried to use the power to seal the Dreadwyrm away (using the same spell Paplymo would later use on the forming Shinryu).

However Bahamut was stronger than Louisoix thought and broke free before the spell's completion. Out of options, Louisoix used a spell to teleport to 1.x Warriors of Light 'somewhere safe'. The vagueness of 'somewhere safe' caused them to be sent into a rift where they remained in suspended animation, until around 5 years later which was determined to be 'somewhere safe'. As for Louisoix, he was resigned to die, but the prayers of hope, salvation and rebirth from Eorzeans were carried along the aether and entrusted unto him, allowing him to use the aether used to try and summon the Twelve to isntead transform into a new primal, Phoenix - symbol of rebirth. Phoenix was able to defeat and shatter Bahamut, and Louisoix wanted to let go of the power and simply fade away. But Bahamut's mind was strong, and held on to life by sheer force of will, using Louisoix's moment of reprieve to enthrall him, and absorb the energy he relinquished as Phoenix. Bahamut's remains were embedded underground by the force of his body's destruction, but they remained intact, and the shards of Dalamud were active underground, searching for their escaped prisoner until they found the Dreadwyrm's crystal heart.

the 12 then latter show up in the bodies of 12 knights for the thoradin plotline, powered by the eyes, and a particularly magical sword, and the magic in the ishgardian church?
But like shiva, because it's in people, it's not quite as ... insane and world shattering?

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

the 12 then latter show up in the bodies of 12 knights for the thoradin plotline, powered by the eyes, and a particularly magical sword, and the magic in the ishgardian church?
But like shiva, because it's in people, it's not quite as ... insane and world shattering?

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The twelve knights of the Heavens' Ward do not transform into 'the Twelve' deities of Eorzea.

They transform into the mythical knights that make up the founding myth of Ishgard lead by King Thordan. Bahamut was the strongest known primal, because while he was trapped in dalamud, the sattelite-prison was absorbing energy from the Sun and storing it within him, just making him stronger. As for why was the sattelite making him stronger, the energy was originally supposed to be siphoned away from him to supply limitless energy to the Crystal Tower in the time when he was imprisoned. But that civillization destroyed themselves, and basically nothing was taking away the excess energy the primal was getting.

Ah, that twelve, isn't THAT twelve.

Got it.

Course, turns out they are BOTH the 13 (with one kicked out) from the other group.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

There's some vids with all cutscenes in the original MSQ, that's 2 hours more that I hope will explain what I just saw...

Was the really big spell, "the trick at Cardinau"? Did they summon 12? The 12? Or is that what was talked about in coils and when susako showed up, the ultimate stasis spell, only this time it failed?


How do the pieces that retcon backwards (coils, and flashbacks) fit around this?

The final moment is the heros, (and as many others as possible) being teleported to "safe" somewhere, to keep hope alive?

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I would expect another retcon of this moment coming in the next expansion too.

The Tales of the Shadows that were released during The Rising event firmly place the Phoenix as a creation of Lahabrea, who coincidentally was watching over the exchange of Louisoix vs. Bahamut.

We've come to know that everything the Scions stand for is to stop the summoning of primals, yet here we have a situation where the founding member of the Scions uses a summoning spell (aka creation magic--the thing the Ancients used) to summon the 12. We can say he was desperate to justify his actions, but how does someone learn creation magic not from an Ascian?

What Shadowbringers has revealed as well is that gods don't really exist, they are just primals dreamed up by people, as Zodiark and Hydaelyn are just elder primals, not gods--which now brings into question who the "12" actually are.

This is further exasperated by the fact that most of the world's religions (including the "the 12") all contain a form of Azem and Urianger explained at the end of 5.3 are probably the result of the WOL's former life visiting all the corners of the world. So now the implicit evaluation of this is that "the 12" was just the WOL and their companions.

Most likely this will be clarified by either meeting with Hydaelyn or Venat (who became the heart of Hydaelyn and much like Elidibus would still exist in the form of a primal somewhere, as they claimed they wouldn't disappear but return "in the form of their choosing").

Tales from the Shadows has revealed that both the Phoenix and Ifrit(ia) were at one point just beings created with Creation Magic just like... a whole bunch of other beings were. Which opens the door for a lot of beings coming from stories about things created with Creation Magic and then 12k years of the stories of those created beings be garbled into the myths we know today. We do know that people didn't remember the days of Amarot after the Sundering clearly, so it's very likely a lot got changed.

What FFXIV has been careful to do is not invalidate people's belief systems just because they are believing in something that might not actually be a god (and ironically, Hydaelyn, the closest thing to a god we've seen, isn't worshiped as one anywhere). What seems to be more important is what the religion is used as a reason to do things, and so long as it isn't anything really bad, the story is neutral at worst about it. Even Ishgard doesn't actually stop worshiping Halone after they find out the Church was lying to them; they just... stop harping on the whole "dragons are Halone's mortal enemy" nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

The Tales of the Shadows that were released during The Rising event firmly place the Phoenix as a creation of Lahabrea, who coincidentally was watching over the exchange of Louisoix vs. Bahamut.

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It's mentioned that there is a legendary Phoenix whose appearance and powers have been copied by at least two entities - Louisoix and his Primal transformation, and Suzaku, who was originally just a regular bird auspice but who assumed the Phoenix's appearance and abilities as she grew in power (apparently out of a desire to resurrect Tenzen).

That legendary Phoenix was probably Lahabrea's creation. Maybe. If the Tale from the Shadows is accurate, it didn't live long before it was mercy-killed, and very few people actually knew about it. Not exactly the stuff of legends, there. Though I suppose Lahabrea might have made a properly soul-less one later which could have laid the foundations for those legends.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

What FFXIV has been careful to do is not invalidate people's belief systems just because they are believing in something that might not actually be a god (and ironically, Hydaelyn, the closest thing to a god we've seen, isn't worshiped as one anywhere). What seems to be more important is what the religion is used as a reason to do things, and so long as it isn't anything really bad, the story is neutral at worst about it. Even Ishgard doesn't actually stop worshiping Halone after they find out the Church was lying to them; they just... stop harping on the whole "dragons are Halone's mortal enemy" nonsense.

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i actually want to reiterate this point because it was something i was worried they'd mishandle as soon as i got partway through 5.4

once we got the cure for tempering i was worried the game would also start saying that the gods of the beast tribes were false while the Twelve were not dismissed in a similar manner. i was pleasantly surprised this was not the case

I think it might be time to bump this....

We have "the 12" summoned at cartenou, we have the OTHER 12 summoned as the KotR, we have the convocation of 13, who kicks out ONE to become 12.... but now we have the 12 as pre-existing gods?

I still feel like this is suspicious.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

I think it might be time to bump this....

We have "the 12" summoned at cartenou, we have the OTHER 12 summoned as the KotR, we have the convocation of 13, who kicks out ONE to become 12.... but now we have the 12 as pre-existing gods?

I still feel like this is suspicious.

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Um, it was always called the Convocation of Fourteen - it's number was reduced to 13 after

Azem

resigned and they simply never chose a replacement (because the Final Days occurred soon after). The Convocation never changed their name to reflect that they were down by one because they simply had more important things to worry about.

And Lousioix didn't summon the Twelve literally, he merely drew on their power (hence why they simply materialized as their symbols).

Although we still don't know what the Twelve really are (and Myths of the Realm so far gives more questions than it answers), a

post-Sundering creation by either the Undersundered Ascians or Venat is likely.

Also there's literally no indication that the Knights Twelve had any relation whatsoever to any of the gods, let alone the whole crew, where the hell is that coming from beyond 'there is a common number'?

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Also there's literally no indication that the Knights Twelve had any relation whatsoever to any of the gods, let alone the whole crew, where the hell is that coming from beyond 'there is a common number'?

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Other than there being twelve of them, there is really no connection whatsoever.

The Knights Twelve are very likely inspired by real-world history and legend, namely the legendary Twelve Peers (Paladins) of Charlemagne, just as Ishgard as a whole draws much inspiration from medieval France.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Other than there being twelve of them, there is really no connection whatsoever.

The Knights Twelve are very likely inspired by real-world history and legend, namely the legendary Twelve Peers (Paladins) of Charlemagne, just as Ishgard as a whole draws much inspiration from medieval France.

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Given they literally turn into the FFVII summon Knights of the Round, which was actually based on King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table (they actually sit at a round table in Ishgard, and even Estinien makes a quip about "sod them and their swivving round table!", it's clear that Thordan and the Knights Twelve are probably more closer based on Arthurian legend (something even the FF Wiki aknowledges.).

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Given they literally turn into the FFVII summon Knights of the Round, which was actually based on King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table (they actually sit at a round table in Ishgard, and even Estinien makes a quip about "sod them and their swivving round table!", it's clear that Thordan and the Knights Twelve are probably more closer based on Arthurian legend (something even the FF Wiki aknowledges.).

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The FF wiki also thinks that Fandaniel is a Hebrew name and goes into two paragraphs of information that confirms the author knows nothing about Hebrew or Japanese, so take it with a grain of salt.

But yes, the Knights Twelve/Knights of the Round are broadly based on Arthur's knights. However, the legendary Knights of the Round Table usually number somewhere in the triple digits (varying depending on legend), so they had to trim down that list a little. Why wouldn't they borrow from the legendary order of knights from the neighboring country, which probably shared some origin roots anyway?

There's a bunch of places that twelve could be coming from as a pertinent number, most notably the Zodiac (both western and Chinese). But personally, I think that just in terms of ballpark figures for group sizes, twelve is a really comfy number, which might be why it comes up in so many places anyway. It's big enough that it starts to feel like a lot, but not so big that it'd be impossible to characterize all of them differently.

Twelve is a recurring number in the real world as well, simply because several Western societies came to view the number as 'divine'. That's why it has a prominent role in our time/calendar systems. This in turn creates more situations in which people end up attaching significance to the number.

There is one very important set of Twelve that hasn't been brought up yet. The Twelve Archons lead by Nyunkrepf. As you may recall, they built a ship known as the Nyunkrepf's Hope to rescue countless people from the great flood caused by the Sixth Umbral Calamity (of Water), at the end of the War of the Magi. According to the EE (v.1 p. 169), the ship was almost destroyed by an incoming tidal wave, at which point Nyunkrepf in desperation teleported it away. He had initially planned to teleport it to the Isle of Yorn just south of what is now Old Sharlayan, but it instead ended up in Abalathia's Spine, where it perched precariously on the mountain top. The magical ship is actually still there to this very day, and you can visit it in the southern section of the Peaks, along with its own Sightseeing Log entry. The corresponding mountain is now named Mount Yorn, as a result. (the Yorn Pig adds that you fight during A5S in the Minotaur portion of the fight is yet another Sharlayan reference, if you'll recall).

We know that the Ala Mhigans revere Rhalgr, having followed his comet in the night sky that lead them away from the Flood waters into the eastern reaches of the Abalathia's Spine, where they set up their kingdom (EE v.1 p.175). Rhalgr himself references this in the Alliance raid fight with a falling meteor attack called 'Rhalgr's Beacon'. Now it turns out that one of the Twelve Archons was a Roegadyn named Ahldbhar, who was described in a 1.0 quest (Of Archons and Muses) to be the very likeness of Rhalgr. If this is still canonically true, then it's possible that he was the one who lead some of the people rescued on Nyunkrepf's Hope east to found the nation of Ala Mhigo, which is what all the statues are based off of.

We also know that there was another group that headed west, lead by Nyunkrepf himself. They journeyed first into the Dravanian Hinterlands, where they built a second ship to travel to and ultimately found what is now modern day Sharlayan (EE v.1 p.169).

According to the sightseeing log entry for Meryall Agronomics in Labyrinthos, there were only seven out of the twelve Archons who were actually instrumental in Sharlayan's founding. Meryall in particular was responsible for enriching the barren soil of Sharlayan and helping resolve the island's food shortage. If we assume that Ahldbhar travelled to Ala Mhigo, then it's possible that there were four other Archons who lead other group(s) of people elsewhere. If there's a connection between the original Archons and the Twelve, then that might explain why there's a collective awareness about them in all the Eorzean nations arising from a common origin point, with certain members of the Twelve being viewed as 'patron deities' for their respective areas (Halone for Ishgard, Llymlaen for Limsa, Nophica for Gridania, Nald'Thal for Belah'dia, and Rhalgr for Ala Mhigo). Worship in each of these areas does seem to predate the original founding of the associated city-states, however (Halone supposedly appeared to Thordan I in a vision, for example, which caused him to lead his people northwest from the Shroud to create modern day Ishgard - EE v.1 p.149).

I don't know enough about all the individual members of the original Twelve Archons to know if such a connection could possibly exist, though. There's a Hatching Tide minion (Motley Egg) that makes an off-hand reference to an Archon named Radcliffe the Red from the Sixth Umbral Era, but his depiction doesn't look like he would have any relation to the Twelve. And given that the Sanctum of the Twelve was originally built during the Age of Endless Frost (i.e. Fifth Umbral Era post Calamity of Ice), so they were probably viewed as deities even earlier than this.

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If you're looking for the 'title' origins of the Convocation members other than Azem, the inspiration likely comes from FFXII's 'Scions of Light', whose counterparts ('Scions of Darkness') are the 13 Lucavi Demons of the Zodiac. Why that specific naming convention was used is beyond me, however. Perhaps there'll be a Void/Allag tie-in to that eventually.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

If you're looking for the 'title' origins of the Convocation members other than Azem, the inspiration likely comes from FFXII's 'Scions of Light', whose counterparts ('Scions of Darkness') are the 13 Lucavi Demons of the Zodiac. Why that specific naming convention was used is beyond me, however. Perhaps there'll be a Void/Allag tie-in to that eventually.

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Oh, LOVELY.

Then that brings it right back around to

https://youtu.be/KreCsxi-nwc

Ivalace, again.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

If you're looking for the 'title' origins of the Convocation members other than Azem, the inspiration likely comes from FFXII's 'Scions of Light', whose counterparts ('Scions of Darkness') are the 13 Lucavi Demons of the Zodiac. Why that specific naming convention was used is beyond me, however. Perhaps there'll be a Void/Allag tie-in to that eventually.

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The ARR team was actually made of people from the teams for the Ivalice games. In fact, the first big-boy Ascian to get named--Lahabrea--turned up after they joined, so we're probably just looking at them going 'hey we have these names lying around, let's use them for these villains'; as we've mentioned, there's a hojillion reasons to land on twelve or thirteen as a good number of figures. The one addition to that was Elidibus, who was a completely unrelated character from a different Ivalice game. All the non-Elidibuses had a connected astrological sign that remained consistent when we saw their soul crystals in 5.3, but that's basically it in terms of connections.

It is not important that they are from Ivalice games. If it was, then they would've used that connection either of the two times we went there, instead of deliberately dodging the Ivalice canon and not mentioning a single Ascian either time. In fact, they had a perfect chance in the 5.x patches; the Leo summon in XII was Hashmal, so both sides of it were present in the exact same patch, and it was not commented on at all.

EDIT: And for what it's worth, the Ascians' names are mostly gibberish that doesn't translate to any real language, nor do they adhere specifically to any ancient language's pronunciation. For example, while you could plausibly parse 'Emet-Selch' and 'Fandaniel' as Hebrew if you tried hard enough, some others like 'Mitron' actually can't be written in Hebrew at all. It's hard to tell if Elidibus is an exception, because his name is plausible Sumerian, but the translation (something about birds, I think) doesn't connect to the FFXIV or FFT characters with that name.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Other than there being twelve of them, there is really no connection whatsoever.

The Knights Twelve are very likely inspired by real-world history and legend, namely the legendary Twelve Peers (Paladins) of Charlemagne, just as Ishgard as a whole draws much inspiration from medieval France.

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Definitely no connection to the twelve as deities. The closest would be that they all take Halone as their patron Deity. I never saw the Heavenguard as anything but a homage to the Knighs of Round from FFVII, which I believe are inspired by the Twelve Peers.

I just want to point out that the Knights of the Round are composed of 13 members. Not 12

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Definitely no connection to the twelve as deities. The closest would be that they all take Halone as their patron Deity. I never saw the Heavenguard as anything but a homage to the Knighs of Round from FFVII, which I believe are inspired by the Twelve Peers.

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Knights of the Round were the Knights of the Round Table, aka the knights of King Arthur Pendragon, not the 12 Peers of Charlemagne

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Originally Posted by Lyth

We know that the Ala Mhigans revere Rhalgr, having followed his comet in the night sky that lead them away from the Flood waters into the eastern reaches of the Abalathia's Spine, where they set up their kingdom (EE v.1 p.175). Rhalgr himself references this in the Alliance raid fight with a falling meteor attack called 'Rhalgr's Beacon'. Now it turns out that one of the Twelve Archons was a Roegadyn named Ahldbhar, who was described in a 1.0 quest (Of Archons and Muses) to be the very likeness of Rhalgr. If this is still canonically true, then it's possible that he was the one who lead some of the people rescued on Nyunkrepf's Hope east to found the nation of Ala Mhigo, which is what all the statues are based off of.

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Don't know if replying to this counts as a necro since it's an older post but this thread just popped back to the top and I've never checked it out before, but...

I was under the impression that the dialogue in that quest had it the other way around, that he was so much like Rhalgr that some statues of Rhalgr were made in his likeness using him as inspiration/a model. The most famous and largest statue of Rhalgr made at the exact spot Rhalgr supposedly led the people to their new home looks nothing at all like a Roegadyn though and it was made after the line in 1.0 so those Roegadyn versions aren't universal. The Twelve have been worshiped since at least the Allagan times, which means that Rhalgr and the rest are thousands of years older than the Magi War and Ala Mhigo anyway. City-states in Eorzea also had their own patron god before the Magi War as well, since we know that Nym venerated Oschon.

Another fun fact is that the Archon Aldbhar you mentioned ended up actually joining the Ascians after having spent awhile fighting them. But he never popped up in the game at all after 1.0 and it's a shame.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Don't know if replying to this counts as a necro

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Hot tip nobody actually cares about necroing and it's better than starting anew leaving old questions unanswered

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Hot tip nobody actually cares about necroing and it's better than starting anew leaving old questions unanswered

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More specifically, no one cares about necro-ing when it's on-topic in a slow subforum. Lore is probably one of the slowest subforums. The reason people dislike the necro-ing that happens in GenDisc is because it's one or more of:
a) off topic
b) resurrecting obsolete information which will then affect people searching for a current answer
or c) intentionally being done to bury active topics.

I don't think I've ever used anything except the New Posts function to see what people are chatting about. Where people actually slot their topics aren't even on my radar.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I was under the impression that the dialogue in that quest had it the other way around, that he was so much like Rhalgr that some statues of Rhalgr were made in his likeness using him as inspiration/a model. The most famous and largest statue of Rhalgr made at the exact spot Rhalgr supposedly led the people to their new home looks nothing at all like a Roegadyn though and it was made after the line in 1.0 so those Roegadyn versions aren't universal. The Twelve have been worshiped since at least the Allagan times, which means that Rhalgr and the rest are thousands of years older than the Magi War and Ala Mhigo anyway. City-states in Eorzea also had their own patron god before the Magi War as well, since we know that Nym venerated Oschon.

Another fun fact is that the Archon Aldbhar you mentioned ended up actually joining the Ascians after having spent awhile fighting them. But he never popped up in the game at all after 1.0 and it's a shame.

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I've never played 1.0 and I've been only able to go off of what quotes I've found about him and that quest online. If you have more information about him or any other of Nyunkrepf's team, I'd be interested to hear about it.

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Originally Posted by SnowVix

More specifically, no one cares about necro-ing when it's on-topic in a slow subforum. Lore is probably one of the slowest subforums. The reason people dislike the necro-ing that happens in GenDisc is because it's one or more of:
a) off topic
b) resurrecting obsolete information which will then affect people searching for a current answer
or c) intentionally being done to bury active topics.

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This. Plus the Lore subforum here MOSTLY gets really good discussions, and they can get buried over time. Besides, those questions can still be asked by people nowadays, so every time they get necro'd, somebody learns something new.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I've never played 1.0 and I've been only able to go off of what quotes I've found about him and that quest online. If you have more information about him or any other of Nyunkrepf's team, I'd be interested to hear about it.

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The gist is that they were probably WoLs because they appeared right at the time of a Calamity and were super powerful and fought the "darkness". Their descriptions match what we're eventually told WoLs are supposed to be.

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Some folk make them for the very incarnations of the Twelve, come to Eorzea. Old prophecies and wives’ tales say they descend from their heavenly seat whenever disaster threatens Eorzea, see. Needless to say, many believe the Archons to have otherworldly powers - both of mind and body. According to the loremasters’ books, there was an age of shadow and calamity some fifteen hundred-odd years ago, when a great flood drowned the world - the sixth Umbral Era, they called it. Believers say it was the twelve Archons what came to fight the darkness then.

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Legends have long told of the advent of a band of saviors known as the Twelve Archons, who helped to warn the people of impending doom and provide salvation to countless scores in their time of need. Without champions such as these, the path to the Sixth Astral Era may have been longer and more fraught with peril than it actually was.

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At the urgent behest of a party of twelve shadowy figures history only remembers as the Archons, the nations agree to consolidate their remaining resources and form the Grand Companies of Eorzea in an attempt to forestall the coming apocalypse.

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It is foretold that on the cusp of an Umbral Calamity, individuals blessed with the power of the Echo will appear. During the Sixth Umbral Era, when the waters rose to swallow the land, the twelve Archons who stood against the darkness each bore this blessing. The histories paint a fanciful picture of these gifted souls. Through countless retellings, the Archons’ deeds are become myth, their powers more akin to gods than men. However, there are two things of which I am now certain. First, their gift, the Echo, granted them the power to walk within the memories of others. Second you have been blessed with the selfsame power.

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And after fighting the who I would assume to be the Ascians, Ahldbhar gave up and joined them and was never mentioned in-game again. Maybe he's the unicorn a certain faction of the forums are looking for, a WoL who ends up finding the truth of the world and turns against Hydaelyn to take up with the Ascians. Shame he never gets mentioned after.

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Ahldbhar fought relentlessly against a clan of wicked sorcerers that sought only to wreak havoc on the world through their dark powers. But then, something happened… Something that threw Ahldbhar into deep despair. And in the end, he turned and took up with the enemy, though none can say as to why.

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The statue of Rhalgr at the Fist of Rhalgr was made by the first Ala Mhigans carved out of the mountain Rhalgr's star led them to. It's also carved in the likeness of a Hyur, which happens to be the main population of Ala Mhigo but with new information we have from the 24-man follow-up quest, likely made in the image of the actual Rhalgr since they can appear to mortals around the time of Calamities. Ramuh also looks close to the actual Rhalgr and even includes his elf ears.

As for Ahldbhar himself, I believe from the quest text that it's more likely he was just used as a model or walking inspiration after being compared to Rhalgr, and his being "Rhalgr himself" is merely metaphorical.

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They say Ahldbhar was the mightiest of the twelve Archons. Rhalgr the Destroyer himself, taken form in Roegadyn flesh─a bloody mountain of a man, and a fearsome warrior, besides. You must’ve seen renderings of Rhalgr at some point─in paint or stone. Looks like a bag of angry muscles in a mage’s robes, right? Aye, well, those are done in the likeness of Archon Ahldbhar.

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They say Ahldbhar was the mightiest of the twelve Archons. Rhalgr the Destroyer himself, taken form in Roegadyn flesh─a bloody mountain of a man, and a fearsome warrior, besides. You must’ve seen renderings of Rhalgr at some point─in paint or stone. Looks like a bag of angry muscles in a mage’s robes, right? Aye, well, those are done in the likeness of Archon Ahldbha

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with a quote like that all i can think of is "i cast fist".