Please adjust Cross World trading and put higher restrictions on it

Now now. Before you get upset with this. Please read and understand.

Since the implementation of the Firmament and how easy it is to level DoH/DoL now. There has been a HUGE influx in people posting on the boards. It was the be expected, as they wanted Firmament to help people get into this aspect of the game easier. Imo, it was already pretty straight forward. It just took time and nobody was willing to put any into it. At least those that were lazy, which again, is my opinion. With Firmament, people saw it was overly easy to put minimal effort in and sky rocket their classes. That's fine! All well and good. Which has lead to many new people on the boards, for better or worse (I'm looking at you, person who undercuts by entirely way too much because you're new to working the market).

Now you may be wondering where the CWT comes into play. Well. Firmament was the first step to tanking everyone's boards. But now, and I say now very loosely as it's been a problem for quite a few months now, you have people who are abusing this for tanking markets. If you were to go into your boards now, or you're the type of person who has already taken notice due to you working the boards already, you'll have noticed something. There are quite a few people who have bought and boosted many a retainer on worlds they DO NOT reside on, simply to make a quick gil and tank that market. I have personally spoken to somebody who has said this outright. "lol This isn't my home world. This is my alt that I use to mule goods. I don't care how bad the market gets here because it doesn't effect my server at all. Sorry". I cannot name them, but this is a direct quote from them.

Further, I have also looked into some of the regular names who do this. Noticing all new retainer names constantly showing up but the same person on the crafted name. Upon looking them up or going and finding them, some of them do in fact third party/bot craft and gather without ever logging out. This isn't right nor is it fair. Imo Cross World market crashing due to trading in this fashion needs to be limited in some way/shape/form.

!) The most extreme - Take out CWT. It would hurt those that just give items to friends or whatever, but it would help normalize the marketboards and stop these scummy practices.

2) Put a level limit on the sales of items. These people would have to have a max of 80 (or current level) with a retainer of the same level the item being sold is of. So if, in example, one was to put a Chili Crab meal up for sale, that retainer would have to be level 80. Sure, they could purchase a level skip for the retainer. But they'd have to do it on each and every retainer on their alt account for that world. Limiting the abuse of this feature due to them not wanting to spend that much money monthly to do so.

I think option 2 is fair and balanced to allow others to still use the feature. But something has to be done. As far as the botting, i've reported to SE with detailed times on what i've seen and who's been doing it with nothing done to them. I've gone to bed watching somebody crafting only to wake up and see them in the EXACT SAME SPOT doing the same thing, along with others I know. So just a small way to put a dent in those as well.

If you want to add suggestions, please put them below. And hey, if you made it this far. You're a champ. Happy adventuring guys

(I had to cut and paste my end response as a reply. Word limit. My bad)

Market issues generated by bots aside since that's something that deserves separate attention...

No.

SE is intentionally moving the markets from world based to data center based. The goal is to stabilize and balance prices across data centers to benefit all players rather than have wild swings in prices from world to world. It would have already happened at the start of this expansion if they hadn't run into technical issues. You need to give up the idea that your world is supposed to remain an isolated market. It's not.

Since the intent is to create a data center market, it doesn't matter where a player places their alts to sell their items.

It's a free market. Players can list their items for whatever price they want. Don't like the price others are setting? Find something else to sell.

Marketboard listings are one of the basic functions of retainers, along with storage. Retainers aren't required to have a class/job to do those things so there can't be a retainer level requirement placed on selling.

Sorry if you're not getting as super rich as you want because competitors are getting more aggressive with their listings. Considering there's very little in the game that requires gil above what the game provides through normal game play, you're not being harmed by low prices. If you were buying up items speculating that you might be able to resell for profit and guessed wrong, you haven't lost anything with real value. If you were buying materials to craft items for sale and guessed wrong about the market for those items, again you haven't lost anything with real value.

No matter what idea people come up with, bot will always be there to ruin something. I mean you see bots still shouting in the main few towns, meaning people are big enough idiots to do something to get their accounts hijacked.

Bots can power level to 80 in no time flat, so that won't really slow them down either.

I always favor the buyer personally.

So long as the item sells more on the market board (after fees/taxes) than it would a NPC, I consider it a profit.

I have 0 issues selling things to the NPC’s if prices drop too low.

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Originally Posted by Lecru

There are quite a few people who have bought and boosted many a retainer on worlds they DO NOT reside on, simply to make a quick gil and tank that market. I have personally spoken to somebody who has said this outright. "lol This isn't my home world. This is my alt that I use to mule goods. I don't care how bad the market gets here because it doesn't effect my server at all. Sorry". I cannot name them, but this is a direct quote from them.

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... wouldn't expanding cross world trading help your point?
If everything is more connected people can't tank one server to enrich themselves on their own.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

... wouldn't expanding cross world trading help your point?
If everything is more connected people can't tank one server to enrich themselves on their own.

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Not at all. The Cross World and Firma fast leveling is flooding the market with people trying to make a quick gil and driving prices into the ground. The time it takes to gather mats to make Food (if not taking the market way out and buying it) or even set pieces doesn't justify how absurdly low things are now selling for because of this. Before CWT and Firm, you could craft a few pieces that would sell for 700k a piece. That's not absurd by any means. 2 pieces would be around, say, 1.3 mil on the board. Now, an ENTIRE crafted set on the board costs 1.4mil on my server. That's 11 pieces of HQ gear that you have to sit and make the sub mats for while popping a food as well and taking the time to craft each one. But because those two elements are there, the market is just flooded with people who are out for a quick gil, as stated before, and drive things into the dirt because they are unaware of how to work the board. There's no tutorial for market boarding. I know somebody who crafts Tinctures and would sell them for around 7k~~ish. These require tome mats per craft. 2 per in fact. Of which i'm sure you're aware of, but for those that don't. Which requires either time spent grinding or gil spent for the mats. Plus, again, gil spent for the crafting food or time spent gathering all the materials. Etc. Those very same tinctures have gone down to 3k because of people spamming this. That's not even worth the mats to make your food to craft it. At least getting rid of CWT woudl alleviate SOME of this market spam by people not even on your server making an alt, spending 30 minutes getting it to 15 only to choke your world up with their product.

Their intention is to make datacenter wide markets, breaking down barriers, not putting them up.
So this is completely antithesis to their plans.

Individual servers markets crash because they're separate.
Prices fluctuate more because of the fewer number of items listed on a server.
A datacenter wide market would be more stable, more fair.
Cross-world trading is a first step towards that, and allows other servers to help regulate the less stable servers.

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Originally Posted by Lecru

(I had to cut and paste my end response as a reply. Word limit. My bad)

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Edit your post and you no longer have a (reasonably attainable) character limit.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Cross-world trading is a first step towards that, and allows other servers to help regulate the less stable servers.

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It also allows smaller servers to have much more sane prices for rare and harder to craft but widely needed items. During ARR the crafted items needed for relics often went for 100k+ on smaller servers while being ~10k on larger servers.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Sorry if you're not getting as super rich as you want because competitors are getting more aggressive with their listings. Considering there's very little in the game that requires gil above what the game provides through normal game play, you're not being harmed by low prices. If you were buying up items speculating that you might be able to resell for profit and guessed wrong, you haven't lost anything with real value. If you were buying materials to craft items for sale and guessed wrong about the market for those items, again you haven't lost anything with real value.

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why is your goto assumption ALWAYS that the reason people are complaining about bots etc that the complainers are greedy and only out to increase their gil count.

why is it, you always seem to side with the ones trying to cheat and game the system for profit, and usually of the RMT kind.

why?

To be fair, becoming a crafter and making a set of gear is so stupidly easy that high prices aren't justified like they used to be. Just because some players decide an item should be worth more doesn't mean it is.

Every week I turn in 12 custom deliveries and get around 10 Control materia basically for free. After the materia conversion change I keep getting more and more materia I don't know what to do with other than sell. Pentamelding the newest crafting gear has never been easier and this allows everyone and their grandma's dog to have high amounts of CP and other stats and access to the best crafting macros.

Additionally, I spent about 2 hours fishing and crafting to make 90 crafting food. That food recipe was available before the most recent patch so only quiet down time was spent. The materials to craft Exarchic gear cost around 20k for accessories and 40k for weapons/chest so you can easily just buy those, sell the gear for 100k and still make a profit. You can craft the whole set within one food buff if you prep NQ materials in advance. What other activity in game would guarantee you over 1M Gil profit per 30 minutes of clicking a button and watching Netflix? It's no wonder more and more people are flooding the market and driving the prices down.

The only reason crafters were able to charge more for this easy business is because getting crafters or gatherers to max level and melding gear used to take a lot of time and money. Providing the same thing now is no longer rare or special and the supply has increased. Quite a lot of people have also become self sufficient or they are able to rely on friends, which further reduces demand.

This doesn't mean the market works incorrectly or that it's being maliciously ruined by other players. Botting is an issue that should be addressed but cross world trading is not the reason crafting became less profitable.

in thinking about it Jojoya... why arent you EVER going off on how greedy the bots are for raking in more gil than even you have I imagine, on a constant, 24 hr a day basis?

given how low your opinion is of legit crafters who actually play the game, why do the cheaters who are the real greedy ones get none of your loathing?

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

in thinking about it Jojoya... why arent you EVER going off on how greedy the bots are for raking in more gil than even you have I imagine, on a constant, 24 hr a day basis?

given how low your opinion is of legit crafters who actually play the game, why do the cheaters who are the real greedy ones get none of your loathing?

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One way or another, it is player greed that leads to the complaints about how someone isn't making enough gil on the marketboard. It is their greed if they are using a bot. It is their greed if they aren't.

Bots exist. They will always exist in MMOs no matter how much ignorant people like you think game developers can make them disappear with a wave of their hand.

Either learn how to enjoy playing a game despite their existence like I and most other players have, or continue to be miserable as you apparently are.

Keep implying all you want that I bot or support bots but I neither use them nor do I support their existence. AS for going off on those who cheat, I most definitely have. I can't help it that you're so intent on blaming SE for everything that you don't blame those who do the actual cheating.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

To be fair, becoming a crafter and making a set of gear is so stupidly easy that high prices aren't justified like they used to be. Just because some players decide an item should be worth more doesn't mean it is.

....The only reason crafters were able to charge more for this easy business is because getting crafters or gatherers to max level and melding gear used to take a lot of time and money. Providing the same thing now is no longer rare or special and the supply has increased. Quite a lot of people have also become self sufficient or they are able to rely on friends, which further reduces demand.

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This is why I would love to see the Expert recipes brought over to regular crafting for some things.

I would love to see it work so that some older recipes that have 1-off mats have those mats eliminated from the game (which would help inventories a bit, but isn't ultimately necessary) -- but have some recipes made into Expert ones. I'm thinking non-leveling gear like glams and some special housing items and perhaps a few minions. Non-essential things that are currently over-supplied.

And I would love to see something that's essentially the equivalent of Expert crafting for gatherers -- which could be used to get minions, like the Kidragora. Maybe with a levelsync feature, so that you'd have Expert gathering/crafting at level, even if you're maxed out and pentamelded.

I think this would bring some interest to crafting/gathering beyond Ishgardian Restoration and the MB without driving up prices for items regular players need or make decorating a house unwieldy. --and possibly allow master crafters to show their chops a bit on the MB.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

One way or another, it is player greed that leads to the complaints about how someone isn't making enough gil on the marketboard. It is their greed if they are using a bot. It is their greed if they aren't.

Bots exist. They will always exist in MMOs no matter how much ignorant people like you think game developers can make them disappear with a wave of their hand.

Either learn how to enjoy playing a game despite their existence like I and most other players have, or continue to be miserable as you apparently are.

Keep implying all you want that I bot or support bots but I neither use them nor do I support their existence. AS for going off on those who cheat, I most definitely have. I can't help it that you're so intent on blaming SE for everything that you don't blame those who do the actual cheating.

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I have little use for cheaters and would love to go off on them, but last I checked, SE doesnt like you doing things like that do they?
So the only option remaining is to saddle what blame they deserve on SE. this is their environment and they claim to be against cheating... and have yet to prove it

I do enjoy the game, or I wouldnt be here. I wouldnt try and fight against the bots and the cheaters that use them.

simply because some people choose to give up and live with the issue, doesnt mean everyone has.

the ho-hum attitude of "they will always exist in large numbers" is why they always will.. because not enough people demand accountability against the users of bots and cheaters, the RMT merchants and the people who use their services.