Dear Square Enix pls stop using the same skins of raidtier for different classes

When i went to the raidgear vendor, i was totally disappointed. Healer and Caster Gear looks the same as always, but Fending and Maiming gear and Striking and Aiming look almost the same. I have never seen another mmo where so much reskinning is used.

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Originally Posted by Paperowl1

I have never seen another mmo where so much reskinning is used.

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youve never seen warcraft robes?

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Originally Posted by Paperowl1

When i went to the raidgear vendor, i was totally disappointed. Healer and Caster Gear looks the same as always, but Fending and Maiming gear and Striking and Aiming look almost the same. I have never seen another mmo where so much reskinning is used.

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Basically every MMO does this.

But not to this extend

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Originally Posted by Paperowl1

I have never seen another mmo where so much reskinning is used.

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How about Guild Wars 2?
That takes it even further. A lot of the gear looks like what you're already wearing, but with higher stats.

So because another game is worse ff is excused?

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Originally Posted by Paperowl1

So because another game is worse ff is excused?

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Excused?
I never said I had a problem with what FF does.
I actually dig the overlap, especially since gear is pretty segregated by your role.
And they're never exactly the same. I appreciate the little ways they're tailored to fit each job and sometimes the little differences (like the skirt on the Deepshadow fending gear not being present on the maiming gear) spiral into whole new glams.
Then again, maybe I'm just more accepting of the fact that RPGs have recycled models since the NES days of recolored monster sprites.

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Originally Posted by Paperowl1

So because another game is worse ff is excused?

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So basicaly you start by saying there is no game worse, then you agree there are...
Anyway, a simple answer to that particular issue would be : everyone puts glamour over the raid gear so where is the problem ? At least this game offers you a wide variety of glamour possibilities ( and a dresser with not enough spot for all the glamours )

otherwise yes, Sometimes the amount of recycling is ridiculous, like in SB when crafted gear was litteraly the skin of the 50 relic weapons, just without the aura

How many dungeons per expansion would you be willing to give up in order for every gear set to be new and unique?

(I'm not sure if those actually share development resources, but given that both involve graphical design there's a good chance that at least some overlap exists.)

How often do you see someone who doesn't just glamour over their endgame gear anyway?

I'm more mad at the fact that for example, the Caster and Healer gear got the same model, but different colors in some un-dyable parts... And YET we don't have the option of dyeing 2 separate areas of the same piece.

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Originally Posted by Paperowl1

So because another game is worse ff is excused?

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So you agree? There are worse games out there. WoW, ESO, plenty of others aren't nearly as in depth and have reused assets far more than this. Get off your high horse.

They always do this the new dungeon gear is basicly same as the Ill megh dungeon but i can be Dyed, alot of stuff just look the same sadly, its also boring when they just Recolor mounts allready in the game.

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Originally Posted by Masked-dingus

otherwise yes, Sometimes the amount of recycling is ridiculous, like in SB when crafted gear was litteraly the skin of the 50 relic weapons, just without the aura

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I liked getting the old relic models without the auras (or the work). Glowing weapons annoy me.

Should probably stay away from Everquest, then. They literally have 4 sets of gear(though, I guess it looks different for each race). You got plate, chain, leather and silk.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

How often do you see someone who doesn't just glamour over their endgame gear anyway?

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But where does that glamour come from? Unless they're sticking to the Lv1 glamours there's every chance it's drawing on a past expansion's endgame gear.

It would be boring if everyone wore the same endgame gear instead of finding something unique.

There's also a difference between "not liking" new gear and "not liking it as much as the glamour I'm already using" and not wanting to change to the new outfit. They're never going to come out with an outfit that everyone simultaneously thinks looks better than what they're already wearing.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

How often do you see someone who doesn't just glamour over their endgame gear anyway?

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The problem with that line of thinking is that maybe just maybe if the endgame gear was really good looking people wouldn't glamour it?

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

How often do you see someone who doesn't just glamour over their endgame gear anyway?

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I don’t if it looks good.

True the game is full of weirdos who want to dress bunny girls in bikinis and things, but I think there’s value in having nice dungeon/raid gear for the more serious players.

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Originally Posted by Paperowl1

So because another game is worse ff is excused?

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This is the official forums, we would accept neon colored potato sack gear.

If they can only, for whatever reason, really just make 4 or 5 sets of gear for each piece of content and there needs to be sharing, I'd at least like the sharing to be less blatant. On the most basic level, I'd just like Healer and Caster gear to stop being the exact same piece almost every single time. Have Healing share with Aiming, and Casting share with Scouting or something. Or really mix it up and have one of the magic classes share with one of the more heavily armoured sets. If nothing else it would at least be less boring.. and I say that as someone who actually likes most of the recent gear sets.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

Have Healing share with Aiming, and Casting share with Scouting or something. Or really mix it up and have one of the magic classes share with one of the more heavily armoured sets.

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They've repeatedly said they won't do this in order to preserve "class identity."
Not that you can't make an armored mage if you try, but they don't want to blur that line too much.

I actually wish they would stop dropping players into a boss room and calling said boss room a raid... FOR 12 FLOORS IN A ROW!!!

Just call it by what it really is; a trial.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

I actually wish they would stop dropping players into a boss room and calling said boss room a raid... FOR 12 FLOORS IN A ROW!!!

Just call it by what it really is; a trial.

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"Raid" isn't a protected definition just because WoW uses it for that format, whatever game uses the term can use it for whatever content they want.
Also, the entre tier of four fights is regarded as a single 'raid' because to prog it in savage you have to do them in order, or you miss out on the rewards.
It's essentially a four boss raid, but conveniently broken up so it doesn't take impossible 12+ hour sittings to prog.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

"Raid" isn't a protected definition just because WoW uses it for that format, whatever game uses the term can use it for whatever content they want.
Also, the entre tier of four fights is regarded as a single 'raid' because to prog it in savage you have to do them in order, or you miss out on the rewards.
It's essentially a four boss raid, but conveniently broken up so it doesn't take impossible 12+ hour sittings to prog.

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actually she isn't totally wrong, the early raids, and even Alexander, showed at least an effort to create an environnement before jumping straight to the boss
Then, as for everything else, since SB we started getting less, with Omega being a nice excuse to teleport us into an arena with a boss, and Eden works the same way

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Originally Posted by Masked-dingus

actually she isn't totally wrong, the early raids, and even Alexander, showed at least an effort to create an environnement before jumping straight to the boss
Then, as for everything else, since SB we started getting less, with Omega being a nice excuse to teleport us into an arena with a boss, and Eden works the same way

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Eden is straight to the boss, but Omega does have a "moving through an environment" aspect to it - they just shifted it to the solo instances before you reach the base camp where you launch into the boss fights, so you only do it once and don't re-experience it each time you do the fight.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

On the most basic level, I'd just like Healer and Caster gear to stop being the exact same piece almost every single time. Have Healing share with Aiming, and Casting share with Scouting or something. Or really mix it up and have one of the magic classes share with one of the more heavily armoured sets.

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But they already do that quite regularly? Not usually mages in armour - though they have shared lighter sets before, like the Lv68 crafted gear gives healers and tanks the same leather coat - but we get mages sharing with DPS fairly regularly even if caster/healer is the default pair.

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Originally Posted by Masked-dingus

actually she isn't totally wrong, the early raids, and even Alexander, showed at least an effort to create an environnement before jumping straight to the boss

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And in the ARR ones you had paths with trash mobs leading up to the boss.
They removed those too for the same reason: the community said they didn't like them. Especially when learning a boss, having to jog back to it after each wipe was a lame waste of time and they asked SQEX to change it.
I'm sorry to hear you feel these environments were valuable and worth preserving, because they're probably not coming back.

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

The problem with that line of thinking is that maybe just maybe if the endgame gear was really good looking people wouldn't glamour it?

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As I'd previously said in reply to the same post you were quoting, there isn't a direct correlation between whether the endgame gear "looks good" and whether people will choose to switch to wearing it instead of what they are currently wearing.

Why (and how) is the newest set always expected to be better than the one before? That's the only way you'd get everyone choosing to wear it instead of glamouring to their personal taste out of the full range of gear available to them. The older gear pieces also still look good and adding another choice doesn't change that.

I use a fair few past endgame pieces in glamours, and the newest sets are going to add to my collection but that doesn't mean I'll be wearing them immediately or all the time.

The Eden designs are really pretty, especially the mage and striking sets, but I'd only put it on one or two of my characters.

The Cryptlurker aiming coat will look nice once I can dye it, but I can't do that yet and it's terribly dingy in its base state - and again I'd only use it on one or two of my characters and I don't think it would suit the others.

Cryptlurker mage... well, it might make a nice Halloween outfit, and I don't understand why the hood doesn't visor off the helm underneath. But as I said, Eden is pretty and last tier's Neo-Ishgardian dress was also lovely - or maybe I revert to wearing the Lv60 Hailstorm coat which was endgame gear in its time.

There's also a matter of supply, at least at this point. People can't just be buying whole outfits immediately, and might not currently be playing as the class they bought the gear for.

On the other hand, quite a lot of people do seem to immediately wear the crafted designs which are a lot more available. It was particularly noticable with the Neo-Ishgardian designs but I'm now seeing quite a few wearing the Exarchic gear.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

I actually wish they would stop dropping players into a boss room and calling said boss room a raid... FOR 12 FLOORS IN A ROW!!!

Just call it by what it really is; a trial.

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This is actually one of the things I really like about raiding in FFXIV. Raids in past MMOs have way too much trash, I'd rather just fight the boss and be done with it. If you want trash, there is always the Alliance Raids.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

And in the ARR ones you had paths with trash mobs leading up to the boss.
They removed those too for the same reason: the community said they didn't like them. Especially when learning a boss, having to jog back to it after each wipe was a lame waste of time and they asked SQEX to change it.
I'm sorry to hear you feel these environments were valuable and worth preserving, because they're probably not coming back.

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A good solution would have been the creation of a shortcut after cleaning the trash once, that would stay there until you leave the instance
Tho, i agree with you, these kind of things are never coming back since the more the time passes the more things we lose, while we get exploration mode and ocean fishing ( wich i have no problem with people enjoying them )

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Originally Posted by Iscah

But they already do that quite regularly? Not usually mages in armour - though they have shared lighter sets before, like the Lv68 crafted gear gives healers and tanks the same leather coat - but we get mages sharing with DPS fairly regularly even if caster/healer is the default pair.

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They do it, sure, but it's usually within the context of same piece but some time later. I'm saying more like if the pieces are shared within the same set it would be a nice change if they did it at the time of release. For example, if they only make 4 different styles of gear for New Dungeon X, then have the Caster and Scouting gear for New Dungeon X look the same instead of it always being the Caster and Healer gear for New Dungeon X looking the same.

And yeah, I know they've said before that they want to avoid cross classing gear so that tanks and casters and DPS all have different silhouettes but this went out the window a long time ago. They already use different sets for other classes later on (usually as crafted gear), and you can already glamour every single class from heaviest geared tank to sneakiest ninja in bikinis, so that argument doesn't hold any water.

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Originally Posted by Raltar

This is actually one of the things I really like about raiding in FFXIV. Raids in past MMOs have way too much trash, I'd rather just fight the boss and be done with it. If you want trash, there is always the Alliance Raids.

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Trash are good for making the place lively and for building up tension and excitement for the bosses to come. Wow does it well, the raids feel huge and have a back story. Some are done better than others but there's still this sense of awe and adventure. As it stands FF14 raids are very pretty for a few mins but that's it.

I don't play WoW but watched a few streams and in shadowlands once trash are cleared you can dive right back in now, similar to FF14. This seems like a good compromise.

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Originally Posted by Teno

Trash are good for making the place lively and for building up tension and excitement for the bosses to come. Wow does it well, the raids feel huge and have a back story. Some are done better than others but there's still this sense of awe and adventure. As it stands FF14 raids are very pretty for a few mins but that's it.

I don't play WoW but watched a few streams and in shadowlands once trash are cleared you can dive right back in now, similar to FF14. This seems like a good compromise.

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It's boring and tedious. FFXIV gets all of the tension and excitement from the quests before and after the raid fight. Much better that way so it doesn't get as repetitive. I've been playing MMOs since April of 2000 and I have come to loathe trash in raids because it serves no purpose other than to make things be as annoying as possible and take extra time.

I don't get this.

Even in old World of Warcraft, before they did away with class specific sets,they would have alternate versions of the pieces as raid drops that were just reskins, so you weren't screwed for glamour when see a chest piece that would look REALLY good with your current transmog but couldn't wear because you're a paladin and it's a warrior piece. I love the fact that I can still play mix and match with pieces, with my only gripe being that some Striking pieces would look good in my GNB sets. Not everything has to have 10000 unique variants per tier, you can just have some reskins of a good looking set and call it a day. Saves time, saves resources, and it looks great regardless.

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Originally Posted by Raltar

It's boring and tedious. FFXIV gets all of the tension and excitement from the quests before and after the raid fight. Much better that way so it doesn't get as repetitive. I've been playing MMOs since April of 2000 and I have come to loathe trash in raids because it serves no purpose other than to make things be as annoying as possible and take extra time.

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There's few examples of trash pulls done well, but I distinctly remember Bastion of Twilight having some absolutely bonkers trash pulls, especially the first room. That was a raid-killer right there, in which you had to do very controlled pulls of each of four packs or your raid wouldn't be able to get to even the first boss.

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Originally Posted by KalinOrthos

There's few examples of trash pulls done well, but I distinctly remember Bastion of Twilight having some absolutely bonkers trash pulls, especially the first room. That was a raid-killer right there, in which you had to do very controlled pulls of each of four packs or your raid wouldn't be able to get to even the first boss.

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Yeah, Bastion of Twilight was horrible when it came to trash packs. The very first room alone was enough to break an inexperienced raid, and there were so many more where those came from. I'd say the worst of them all has been Firelands though. You couldn't take a step without bumping into a trash pack. I think most raids spent more time clearing trash than they ever did fighting bosses there. There was just THAT much to deal with. I do feel, however, that FF XIV should take some notes from raid design when it comes to WoW. Castrum Lacus Litore and 24 man Alliance raids feel more like actual raids than Normal or Savage raids do, and Normal/Savage raids are always seen as the "meat" of a patch.

I honestly have to take breaks from xiv to go play wow or gw2 because of this game's "raid" "designs" and "open" "world". XIV is just far too devoid of exploration and gameplay-based storytelling. Everything in this game just feels so surface-level and that we're just supposed to take the npcs' words that there is a living breathing world that logically functions when we're not there to observe it, and I just don't buy it.

Story-wise and traversal-wise we go from leading to a deeply personal expedition into some completely alien archetecture, to a series of gob-gauntlets maybe guarded by a handful of dudes or one robot, to "i'mma just come up with some dudes to fight and plop you in front of it and none of it will actually be real 'cause i want you to prove yourself." to "F it, you come up with a boss this time"

Dungeons are just as bad since they're all hallways with no approaches to encounters other than "run forward until you can't, then AoE, then boss with 3 mechanics, then repeat." I was excited to hear that this newest dungeon was suppsoed to take after haukke (cause at least it had a sensible layout for a mansion, and the key mechanic which is better than literally nothing), but nope, it was more hallways and nowhere to explore.

As for the reusing models, yeah it's annoying, though I don't mind it when they add and edit elements to have them similar, and I love it when they put dyable versions in dungeons and mix the roles up in dungeons as well, but the healer = white dress, caster = black dress, ranged = cowboy coat, ninja = short cowboy coat, does get annoying.