Patch 5.4 Delayed Openers and Raid Buff Alignment

Hello there~

With the new MNK changes, specifically Brotherhood changes, raid DPS has changed quite a bit. So, I took the time to update my Delayed Opener list, along with charts comparing the raid DPS between early openers and raid alignments with delayed ones. Unlike before, I've made all the comparison charts much easier to understand at a glance rather than the jumbled mess they were before.

Overall, so long as everyone in the party uses them and no parts of major buffs are lost during an encounter, the delayed alignment results in higher raid DPS. My advice, however, is that you should really stick with what you're comfortable with. These are just meant for optimization and squeezing out a bit more DPS. Hope this helps!

FF14 5.4 Delayed Openers and Raid Buff Alignments

Already found errors on your table on the very first one I opened. Seriously, read your tooltips.

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Originally Posted by MrMagic

Already found errors on your table on the very first one I opened. Seriously, read your tooltips.

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Which one was this?

i am looking at this and i see a whole lot of incorrect math

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

i am looking at this and i see a whole lot of incorrect math

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Ok. Could you point out what you see as incorrect?

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Originally Posted by Oxdarock

Ok. Could you point out what you see as incorrect?

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pretty much everything

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

pretty much everything

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That's an interesting way of saying "I don't know." ^^;

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Originally Posted by Oxdarock

That's an interesting way of saying "I don't know." ^^;

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Wow. How do you not see it? It doesn't take long to run into several. Are you even using formulas on your tables? The funny thing is that every error found seems to be in favour of the early opener. The delayed opener seems to have such high potency due to maths error.

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Originally Posted by MrMagic

Wow. How do you not see it? It doesn't take long to run into several. Are you even using formulas on your tables? The funny thing is that every error found seems to be in favour of the early opener. The delayed opener seems to have such high potency due to maths error.

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I explain the rules on how I calculated everything in the bottom of the doc under "Info Regarding Table Calculations" and everything that's listed in those charts follows them. So just by saying that the math is wrong and not explaining why doesn't prove anything.

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Originally Posted by Oxdarock

I explain the rules on how I calculated everything in the bottom of the doc under "Info Regarding Table Calculations" and everything that's listed in those charts follows them. So just by saying that the math is wrong and not explaining why doesn't prove anything.

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It has nothing to do with that and is simply basic math which is why I asked about if you were using formulas.

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Originally Posted by MrMagic

It has nothing to do with that and is simply basic math which is why I asked about if you were using formulas.

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Well if you want basic formulas based on the tables alone, then take the values under the "Potency" column, multiply them by the "Multiplier" column, and you end up with the number in the "Total Potency" column. I'm transparent about how I did everything so that people can check my work. Only things I didn't add would be how every Bootshine is expected to be done as a positional and therefore a crit and the period when BLMs are in Astral Fire 3 stance, which provides about an 80% damage boost to all Fire spells.

So, since I'm more familiar with NIN, I took a look at that section. Your comparison shows that your delayed opener does 200 potency less than the regular, and I lose a Bhava from the trick window. Also, the regular opener fits so neatly in boss fights cause party mechanics start right after it finishes. So, please tell me why I would ever use this delayed opener since it does less damage, and I'd have to risk being out of melee range of the boss in the last gcd of the trick window?

Also, side note, you forgot the Brotherhood buff in the comparison sheet.

Also, the base potency for Shadow Fang is wrong. 200 + 900 = 1100, not 1300. Since that one was the only one with the formula shown on the page, there could be more math errors behind the scenes, so please go double check your math.

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Originally Posted by Oxdarock

Well if you want basic formulas based on the tables alone, then take the values under the "Potency" column, multiply them by the "Multiplier" column, and you end up with the number in the "Total Potency" column. I'm transparent about how I did everything so that people can check my work. Only things I didn't add would be how every Bootshine is expected to be done as a positional and therefore a crit and the period when BLMs are in Astral Fire 3 stance, which provides about an 80% damage boost to all Fire spells.

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that's not what he's talking about. he's talking about your refusal to use one of the most basic features of a spreadsheet, doing the calculation in the cell itself so that others can actually see your formula and there's no manual calculation errors from copying it from your calculator.

You've been at this since 5.0, and you've never made sense nor have you actually put together an opener that works better than anything available on The Balance and made by people with experience. That or you're trolling. Either way, get new material.

Hey! I had a look into your white mage opener and I have a couple of questions.

- Why is there a swiftcast before assize?
- Why did you try to place a double weave in the middle of it all? (Thin Air + Presence of Mind)

I'd like to hear your thought process on this ^^

Hold on. On the BRD openers, why is the timing on Embolden so different? In the "Early" it goes from 9.6 to 26.4. That's 16.8. But in the "Delayed" it goes from 16.8 to 36. Which is 19.2.

Comparing it to the RDM "Early" Embolden is still off on the BRD opener.
If RDM used Embolden at 6.48 why is there a 3 second gap where BRD doesn't get the buff?

On the "Delayed", if RDM uses Embolden at 15.58 then would your EA at 19.9 seconds not be under the 10% but would be under the 8%? Which in turn would shorten your entire embolden up a block. It's also running for over 20 seconds in the "Delayed".

With the IJ at 28.8 on the "Delayed". If RDM uses Embolden at 15.58 how is that IJ under the 6% at 13.2 seconds and not the 4%?

Perhaps a rework of timers is in order as the potencies seem like they're off.

On a side note, why do you use two decimal places on some and only 1 decimal place on others?

Hm, alright. Since I'm most familiar with Dancer, lets break this down.

You want to delay Technical Step, so that you MIGHT be able to use devilment before flourish because of proccing something and get that one extra attack with devilment up during tech step.

In return, you risk proccing both and then needing to delay Flourish by another GCD, as your advice to overwrite Reverse Cascade is outright wrong, you lose more potency overwriting a proc, even Reverse Cascade, than you do just delaying flourish and letting it drift back a little bit. You delay your Tech Step such that you've basically drifted several GCD's, and by doing so, you've likely drifted it out of whack with the rest of the parties raid buffs to boot.

You're far better off just using the standard opener and then later in the fight, once you can plan for procs or have a sabre dance ready, letting it drift back by -one- GCD.

There is pretty much no point, ever, that one would want to use your dancer opener, it's RNG dependant, worse than the standard no RNG opener even IF it works out, and has a splash of bad advice for flourish as a cherry on top. And yes, if -everyone else- uses your delayed openers, fine sure it'll line up, but the RNG still makes it worse to use and others have noted... significant problems with the others to a degree that makes me seriously doubt it would actually be an overall RDPS increase.



Paladin looks... mostly fine at a glance, though I'm not the most familiar with it. The potion is a GCD late but whatever.



White Mage you're better off with Dia into Assize into Presence of mind. Save swiftcast for movement or raising someone who did something dumb. Thin Air is better saved for more strategic use rather than blindly placed in the opener 100% of the time, there's more MP expensive points to use it oftentimes. I'd also put Divine Benison in there, you can cast it the first time pre-pull (along with a regen on the main tank because why not, pre pull it's basically free) and then cast it after dia every 30 seconds for basically free mitigation on the main tank. And Lucid Dreaming can still be thrown in as need be as well.

So uh....

How long are you going to keep doing this? Your guides and rotations are almost never received well.

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Originally Posted by SiriusSaltstice

So uh....

How long are you going to keep doing this? Your guides and rotations are almost never received well.

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From what I've seen, that "almost" is generous.

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Originally Posted by CodeArkada

Hey! I had a look into your white mage opener and I have a couple of questions.

- Why is there a swiftcast before assize?
- Why did you try to place a double weave in the middle of it all? (Thin Air + Presence of Mind)

I'd like to hear your thought process on this ^^

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Assize is unaffected by Swift, so it simply applies to the next Glare:
Dia -> (Swift + Assize Weave) -> Instant Glare -> (Thin Air + PoM weave).

That said, wasting Swift just to fit Thin Air in the opener for a few free Glares makes no sense whatsoever. You can use that opener to fit in a needed oGCD though instead, such as a Temperance or Asylum to catch an early raidwide. Generally though you just Glare at 2.5 sec prepull, open Dia, weave PoM/Assize and Glare spam.

Every single one of these threads is a goldmine.