Viera headgear compatibility and the new raid items

Hi there.

I don't quite understand why this long after the viera release, new hats that get released still do not work. (The 5.4 raid top hats for example)
I understand that meshing 4 different ear type to each headgear is time consuming, but why not just pick one model and make it standard, like how elezen ears show up in armor all the same.

Is it too much work? Why not just make the ears come out downward from the sides of the hats, or literally just let them clip through?

I know this is a common topic of discussion, and that vieras selling point is ears, but I am making this post for some answers as well as in hopes that it reminds the dev team that a lot of players are wanting/waiting for these changes.

Thank you :)

Old headgear makes sense. However new headgear should be made with the new races in mind. The fact they are not is a little disappointing.

Shame. I really want a hat like this.
https://i.postimg.cc/T1Q1fPcv/Ffta-viera-redmage.jpg

Honestly, nothing at all is better than small helmets on large bodies. That's what Hrothgar have to deal with. It looks comical at best. But...yeah, I agree. There's 0 reason for either race to go without newer wearable headgear. Maybe they should stop adding stickers to Gpose and focus on what really matters.

SE is a small indie dev company, please understand that they can't do what modders do in a week.

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Originally Posted by ThatGuySaysHi

SE is a small indie dev company, please understand that they can't do what modders do in a week.

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I know it's a meme, but every patch I wonder just a little more if it's actually true.

I feel like a lot of it comes from the ear options for viera. When designing hats for cats, they know exactly where the ears will be and how big. Viera could probably still get away with something similar but the floppy ear option could make that tough. Regardless, I'd be happy to see them actually put effort into it like they used to. I thought things like ear/tail holes and tail armor were cool.

I mean, just to be fair the FFXIV team also seems to be the ones making a new next gen main series title. The higher ups are probably stretching them thin.

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Originally Posted by silverdragontyr

I mean, just to be fair the FFXIV team also seems to be the ones making a new next gen main series title. The higher ups are probably stretching them thin.

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How many years can we except the same excuses though? Money is funneling to this other game, crew is working on this or that. I would like to see the funds this game creates put into the game itself.

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Originally Posted by silverdragontyr

Old headgear makes sense. However new headgear should be made with the new races in mind. The fact they are not is a little disappointing.

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On top of the radio silence. Yeah, for me it's more than just a little disappointing. But at this rate I'm not holding my breath anymore. I was surprised by the Bozja cowl (I love it), but that's too little too late.

Shame SE only have like 2 developers and an indie budget.

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Originally Posted by valeerie

Is it too much to ask? Why not just make the ears come out downward from the sides of the hats, or literally just let them clip through?

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I think with the placement of the ears, clipping through would look really bad. They're not going to come out neatly either side of the brim like in that red mage illustration above, they're going to slice through the whole length of the hat and look awful.

(The illustrated Viera seems to have ear placement more like a Miqo'te and I don't know why they didn't just go with that version of the design in the first place.)

As for making them come out downwards, I assume they're not structured to be able to move into a different placement like that.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I think with the placement of the ears, clipping through would look really bad. They're not going to come out neatly either side of the brim like in that red mage illustration above, they're going to slice through the whole length of the hat and look awful.

(The illustrated Viera seems to have ear placement more like a Miqo'te and I don't know why they didn't just go with that version of the design in the first place.)

As for making them come out downwards, I assume they're not structured to be able to move into a different placement like that.

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There's a lot of clipping already for the races that were already in place. I don't think rabbit ears are the reason behind this.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I think with the placement of the ears, clipping through would look really bad. They're not going to come out neatly either side of the brim like in that red mage illustration above, they're going to slice through the whole length of the hat and look awful.

(The illustrated Viera seems to have ear placement more like a Miqo'te and I don't know why they didn't just go with that version of the design in the first place.)

As for making them come out downwards, I assume they're not structured to be able to move into a different placement like that.

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I'm 100% sure the fanbase would have been fine with them being Miqote with a bit longer ears. Problem there is that that's not how Fran looks and she is the iconic Viera plus there would be no ear selection.

Anyway, as for the OP, there is no system for it .... that's it. That's all I can say.
More goes into making hats work than just plopping them on a head, they have to make changes to hair models as well and if they don't want the Viera to make their game look aggressively ugly they have to figure out a way for the ears to not just clip through the hats. If they had used the Miqote head system they could just do that for hairs and hair and make the ear mittens longer and call it a day.

But they didn't, they decided to make a unique race. A design decision that kinda really screwed Viera over but allowed them to look like Fran instead of "Bunny Neko Girls".

Bit torn on this... on the one hand of it makes you guys happier I don’t see why they don’t do it, let it clip, it does on other races anyway.

And on the other, you actively rolled a race that doesn’t wear hats and their main feature is their face/ears..

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Bit torn on this... on the one hand of it makes you guys happier I don’t see why they don’t do it, let it clip, it does on other races anyway.

And on the other, you actively rolled a race that doesn’t wear hats and their main feature is their face/ears..

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We picked it on the promise it would in the future, but we weren't told the future would be so distant. As a consequence, it was sensible to think current gear would be visible, not to mention Mogstation stuff. They are only adding to the amount of work they will have to do in the future, unless they are planning not to fulfil their promises. No matter how you look at it, it's sloppy work.

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Originally Posted by Ranhansha

We picked it on the promise it would in the future, but we weren't told the future would be so distant. As a consequence, it was sensible to think current gear would be visible, not to mention Mogstation stuff. They are only adding to the amount of work they will have to do in the future, unless they are planning not to fulfil their promises. No matter how you look at it, it's sloppy work.

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This year...I get it. The pandemic has interrupted a lot of things and made many development teams across the industry prioritize what gets done. However, they still had ample time to do SOMETHING before crap hit the fan, even if it was one hairstyle for one of the new races. I was very appreciative of the extra effort some of the team resorted put in to get what headgear they could to work. But I also thought that it wouldn't be an issue going forward. I was more than willing to accept that there wasn't much to work with from past content. But there is NO reason whatsoever to have some things added to the game with each new patch not work at all.

The issue is, they said they'd do something at some point, they never gave a time frame or an amount, in fact they did at first, this has gone from. "They can't and won't wear headgear." to "OK some of the devs did some themselves." to "OK, we'll give them something in the future." As much as a lot of people would hate it, so long as 14 continues they could add some 4 years from now and it's in line with what they said.
It also dose little if they say "Still working on it." IF they've got nothing to report, there's little point in reporting.
Some people forget that this was at first a design choice, they simply chose to not let the races wear hats, likely for a variety of reason, time and worklode likely being high on the list.

There also could be other factors as towhy so little has been done, they've said they'd need a better means to handle these things if they ever hoped to add the other genders, that might be what they're trying to work on, some kind of change to the character creator/engine to better facilitate gear addition, but that's the kind of feature you sell and expansion with, so they can't say anything about stuff like that now.

Personally, I'm totally fine with things as they are, I miss a grand total of one hat and have changed my hair zero times. While I really like that one hat, I like Viera more and while I'd welcome any additions if my options where no hat or no Viera then rest in peace Matoya's hat, you'll never be forgotten.

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Originally Posted by Ranhansha

We picked it on the promise it would in the future, but we weren't told the future would be so distant. As a consequence, it was sensible to think current gear would be visible, not to mention Mogstation stuff. They are only adding to the amount of work they will have to do in the future, unless they are planning not to fulfil their promises. No matter how you look at it, it's sloppy work.

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There was no promise that they would make hats and helms work.

They DID say that they would release with zero outside of mascot heads and that they would work to get some head gear working over time (before the devs sneaked behind his back to make a ton of head gear work that ended up being there on release) but they never promised to ever make all head gear work. And in their Def there's a ton of head gear in this game that's not "hats/ helms" that Viera can wear.

Most recent thing they've said IIRC was "we're still looking into ways to get Viera and Hrothgar some unique helms" but even that's not a "promise".

You picked a limited race, it's ok to want more (I want tons of things added to CC in this game so I get not liking limits) but given that the devs were upfront about it there's no broken promise. They never promised that hats and helms were coming.

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Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

The issue is, they said they'd do something at some point, they never gave a time frame or an amount, in fact they did at first, this has gone from. "They can't and won't wear headgear." to "OK some of the devs did some themselves." to "OK, we'll give them something in the future."

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I think people misremembering things is the problem ..

"Q: With the two new races' unique heads, how will their headgear work?

A: It won't be displayed, because those face parts wouldn't work in FFXIV's system if headgear were involved. Even Viera ears would've had to be moved down to where Miqo'te ears are. It would've been meaningless if you couldn't go all-out creating characters from these new races, so we decided that helmets wouldn't be necessary. You can equip them, but they won't be displayed. However, things that replace the head are OK, like the snowman head, fat chocobo head, etc. No glasses. Basically, the default is that it won't be shown, and only things that replace the head are ok. We'll make more things compatible over time, bit by bit, but they won't be compatible at launch. "

It's not some changing story. They never said that they wouldn't get head gear ever, but they also never said that they would add all head gear ever. This answer was from back before the devs snuck and did the extra work behind his back that they were going to do post release ... meaning that basically the general rule is that hats and helms are a no (For Hrothgar it's hats and open face helms) but everything else seems to work as that's how it's been from the start of the expac.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

There was no promise that they would make hats and helms work.

They DID say that they would release with zero outside of mascot heads and that they would work to get some head gear working over time (before the devs sneaked behind his back to make a ton of head gear work that ended up being there on release) but they never promised to ever make all head gear work. And in their Def there's a ton of head gear in this game that's not "hats/ helms" that Viera can wear.

Most recent thing they've said IIRC was "we're still looking into ways to get Viera and Hrothgar some unique helms" but even that's not a "promise".

You picked a limited race, it's ok to want more (I want tons of things added to CC in this game so I get not liking limits) but given that the devs were upfront about it there's no broken promise. They never promised that hats and helms were coming.



"Q: With the two new races' unique heads, how will their headgear work?

A: It won't be displayed, because those face parts wouldn't work in FFXIV's system if headgear were involved. Even Viera ears would've had to be moved down to where Miqo'te ears are. It would've been meaningless if you couldn't go all-out creating characters from these new races, so we decided that helmets wouldn't be necessary. You can equip them, but they won't be displayed. However, things that replace the head are OK, like the snowman head, fat chocobo head, etc. No glasses. Basically, the default is that it won't be shown, and only things that replace the head are ok. We'll make more things compatible over time, bit by bit, but they won't be compatible at launch. "

It's not some changing story. They never said that they wouldn't get head gear ever, but they also never said that they would add all head gear ever. This answer was from back before the devs snuck and did the extra work behind his back that they were going to do post release ... meaning that basically the general rule is that hats and helms are a no (For Hrothgar it's hats and open face helms) but everything else seems to work as that's how it's been from the start of the expac.

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I guess you don't really need to explicitly say the word "promise" to take it for granted since they actually said they would do it. They said they would make more things compatible and here we are, still wearing glasses and flowers since launch. I don't think it's that hard to understand that after more than a year some people would feel disappointed about the situation. They said they would do something (not promised, I get it) and they didn't, so maybe just expressing their concerns might get some attention.
Personally, I'm not that worried about the issue, but I would certainly like to see some development because I've seen how easily this industry ignores its players.

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Originally Posted by Ranhansha

I guess you don't really need to explicitly say the word "promise" to take it for granted since they actually said they would do it. They said they would make more things compatible and here we are, still wearing glasses and flowers since launch. I don't think it's that hard to understand that after more than a year some people would feel disappointed about the situation. They said they would do something (not promised, I get it) and they didn't, so maybe just expressing their concerns might get some attention.
Personally, I'm not that worried about the issue, but I would certainly like to see some development because I've seen how easily this industry ignores its players.

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"More things compatible" means just that, more things. Doesn't mean hats or helms.
Please read my post again and think about it ...
(Also! The only thing they said recently about getting hats or helms was that "we're trying to find ways to make some helms that are unique for Viera but yeah, we said they're not getting helms for a reason so no promises, please understand" basically.)

And I'll quote my self so you can read it again..
"You picked a limited race, it's ok to want more (I want tons of things added to CC in this game so I get not liking limits) but given that the devs were upfront about it there's no broken promise. They never promised that hats and helms were coming."
I understand people are disappointed, I'm disappointed we didn't get a full Hrothgar race. Doesn't help me in anyway to act like "they promised" to never do monogenders just to validate my frustration. They never promised anything, in fact they never said they would make hats or helms compatible.

" They said they would make more things compatible and here we are, still wearing glasses and flowers since launch."
They said that the races would start out with NOTHING but mascot heads (not even glasses) and that they would make "more things" compatible bit-by bit post release. Those "More things" they were going to make compatible were glasses/ mask/ monocles/ flowers/ headbands/ blind folds/ hoods/ tiaras/ horns and so on.

"As you may remember from the Tokyo Fan Festival keynote, I mentioned that due to the special design of the Hrothgar and Viera heads, equipped headgear would not display.
Glasses and so forth would not display either at first, but after seeing how many people called for us to do something, anything, to address this after the announcement, the character team took it upon themselves to use their spare moments to make it possible—without telling me. More than five hundred and forty such items were carefully modified by our designers so that all would display correctly with our new face models. /salute"
What Viera and Hrothgar got on release was what he was referring to with the "more things compatible over time, bit by bit, but they won't be compatible at launch" cause when he said that the plan was that they would release with nothing at all other than mascot heads ...

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Originally Posted by ThatGuySaysHi

SE is a small indie dev company, please understand that they can't do what modders do in a week.

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To be fair, modders aren't limited by budgets, a director that can straight out veto your idea if they feel its not in the spirit of the design of FF14 or has different ideas they want to focus on, having to also make literally hundreds if not thousands of 3D models at the same time within a 3-4 month development window, have to actually program the item into the item database, etc.

The vast majority of a modder's work is basically already done for them compared to one of the 3D modeler's on the dev team's is. They can easily focus solely on a single thing and rush it out with no restrictions; its pretty disingenuous to compare them.

I never expected all headgear to be compatible, but I was hoping for more hairstyles by now. I still suspect that part of that problem is being tied to Hrothgar, who can't change their hair without a fantasia.

Either way, I'm not expecting any real changes until 6.0. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Honestly, nothing at all is better than small helmets on large bodies. That's what Hrothgar have to deal with. It looks comical at best. But...yeah, I agree. There's 0 reason for either race to go without newer wearable headgear. Maybe they should stop adding stickers to Gpose and focus on what really matters.

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Say it louder for those in the back.

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Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

The issue is, they said they'd do something at some point, they never gave a time frame or an amount, in fact they did at first, this has gone from. "They can't and won't wear headgear." to "OK some of the devs did some themselves." to "OK, we'll give them something in the future." As much as a lot of people would hate it, so long as 14 continues they could add some 4 years from now and it's in line with what they said.
It also dose little if they say "Still working on it." IF they've got nothing to report, there's little point in reporting.
Some people forget that this was at first a design choice, they simply chose to not let the races wear hats, likely for a variety of reason, time and worklode likely being high on the list.

There also could be other factors as towhy so little has been done, they've said they'd need a better means to handle these things if they ever hoped to add the other genders, that might be what they're trying to work on, some kind of change to the character creator/engine to better facilitate gear addition, but that's the kind of feature you sell and expansion with, so they can't say anything about stuff like that now.

Personally, I'm totally fine with things as they are, I miss a grand total of one hat and have changed my hair zero times. While I really like that one hat, I like Viera more and while I'd welcome any additions if my options where no hat or no Viera then rest in peace Matoya's hat, you'll never be forgotten.

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I have to agree about the hairstyles, no complaints on that end

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Originally Posted by Ranhansha

We picked it on the promise it would in the future, but we weren't told the future would be so distant. As a consequence, it was sensible to think current gear would be visible, not to mention Mogstation stuff. They are only adding to the amount of work they will have to do in the future, unless they are planning not to fulfil their promises. No matter how you look at it, it's sloppy work.

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Yes this is understandable. I’m actually surprised the mogstation items don’t work, they’re turning away real money there.

I wish they’d put the kind of effort they put into making sure pants turn into miniskirts on female characters into making a modified version of headgear for viera and hroth to wear. For example if viera and hroth equip a hat it instead is like...a headband or mask or whatever. Or do what CF did and make it a tinier version of the hat. Including very serious armored hats.

I’m only half joking. I miss my matoya hat.

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

I feel like a lot of it comes from the ear options for viera. When designing hats for cats, they know exactly where the ears will be and how big. Viera could probably still get away with something similar but the floppy ear option could make that tough. Regardless, I'd be happy to see them actually put effort into it like they used to. I thought things like ear/tail holes and tail armor were cool.

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I don't play a Viera or Hroth but I'll agree that this is getting pretty silly. At the very least, and I know this wouldn't please everyone, but they could just make a default ear style/colour for each Viera hat/helm and bake it into the hat itself. They already do this for some hair styles/colours anyway. That way at least you could have a hat with ears showing even if the ears didn't completely match your characters chosen style/colour (or opt for no helm shown if you don't like the style/colour they've chosen, which wouldn't be any worse than we have it now).

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It would've been meaningless if you couldn't go all-out creating characters from these new races, so we decided that helmets wouldn't be necessary.

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Unless a lot of stuff got cut last minute this is such a strange statement from them. They can't seriously have thought these races were so different and spoilt for choice in customization that headgear wouldn't be necessary?

What am I meant to go "all out" on? :confused: 4 faces like everyone but Midlanders, 4 ears with a slider like Elezen and Lalafell, and 8 hairstyles?

If they really wanted to do races where headgear is an afterthought they should have at least doubled or even tripled the amount of unique faces, ears and hair.

Midlanders get 6 faces and Miqo'te get 8 tails so we know there's room for more in the respective character creation sections and they're not universally locked to 4 options each.

They've acknowledged by now it's not a great situation but the real question is if they're still gonna stubbornly cling on to the notion that we can actually go "all out" in creating these races, or that they might need to rethink the way they went about this. I don't expect fully working helmets ever really, but just do anything at this point.

I'm annoyed about helms and hats but that's something I can deal with.
Tho the Bozjan gear did grind me a bit more than normal, I'm "fighting" for my homeland but can't wear the helms that come from it.. yeah...ok

For me, It's the hairstyles that are really starting to annoy me. I would really like to see some options added before dealing with hats helms

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Originally Posted by Belauron

For me, It's the hairstyles that are really starting to annoy me. I would really like to see some options added before dealing with hats helms

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For Hrothgar specifically they should figure out how to let you change your hair without a Fantasia, it would add insult to injury if they added more and you had to pay €7 a pop to change it.

People say Hyurs are Boring, but boy i have so much less problems :)

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Originally Posted by Araxes

People say Hyurs are Boring, but boy i have so much less problems :)

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For real lol They may not be the most exciting option but they have no clippy bits and look good in pretty much everything.

.. it was nice seeing that they are trying , the new tomestone's hoodies works on viera but then the new calfskin hat doen't work,i don't care much about it to be honest i just want a classical looking mage hat that viera can wear.

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Originally Posted by lalin

.. it was nice seeing that they are trying , the new tomestone's hoodies works on viera but then the new calfskin hat doen't work,i don't care much about it to be honest i just want a classical looking mage hat that viera can wear.

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They haven't really tried anything though, the hooded models that remove the hair have always worked. They don't have a model for hair + a hat that just covers the top of your head like the calfskin hat so those never worked, and might never work.

Hrothgar can also wear the fending helmet while we can't though, so that's nice for them I guess.

I think it maybe depends on when they developed the sets. If they created them in the early development of SHB it could be the models for FV and MH were not created when the gear was.