Thoughts on Savage Tier Rewards...

Long story short: I decided to try out doing savage for the first time in years after leaving the end game raiding scene for almost a decade. Made it through the E8S after some major perseverance.

1) By the time someone clears E8S they do not even care about the dyable armor and weapons anymore. The shear effort needed to clear Shiva is really high. In two hours your luck can be zero successful runs, one or two good runs, or maybe a blowout and every run is good. I mean anyone used to EX trials could probably pug 5 to 7 (well, 7 is a PITA because no one knows what strat to use), but E8S feels like you clear it in a static and pug during your off hours to finish off a gear set.

2) You burn gil like water doing savage. It isn't because the gil gain in the game is bad, but the time needed to conduct savage eats into time for other activities and those tonics / raid foods don't grow on trees. So while people doing normal content can easily squeeze in dungeon runs and 24 mans for rewards while also doing gathering / crafting, your life is basically savage outside of a few dungeon runs.

My feeling is they seriously need to make the eden armor dyable for people who do not do savage. I know they want to motivate people to do it, but the kind of person who wants glamour does not want to go through this. The only thing that will get someone through savage is having a passion for really challenging content.

My feeling is make the dyable sets something that people can grind out kind of like the Bazja armor, along with the weapons for the sets. Then give the savage tier a glowing weapon like with Ultimate along with the mount. I honestly do not think they need so many armor sets at end game and could par down to just the token armor, T1 Token Armor, and go T2 Savage Token armor.

On the plus side: Yes, it is totally worth getting a static group to do content. Not being bound by PUG life "gotta get this done week 1 or I get stuck with swabbies" kind of deal is worth the cost to schedule out a few hours. Just be sure to not turn the whole ordeal into a choir. Everyone burns out and you don't want to make it painful for team-mates. Also, early savage fights are definitely doable by people used to running extreme trials if you are bored of current content and want to try something challenging. I think that if the capstone fights are as hard as E8S is normally do not try to run them unless you are really ready to put in a lot of effort.

I don't really agree with that. The better - and above all, dyable version - is a reward for Savage. And yes, Savage is a more difficult reward and does require more time outside of the lockouts than Alliance Raids or EX Trials. It takes time and Gil to raid, but if one wants more time for other activities, than one should limit the time they spend inside a Raid a week. You can clear them rather casually as well with little time, just not in the first few weeks.

Those who just want the Gear for Glamour can easily do so one expansion later (Alphascape Glamour farms are rather frequent on my DC, even during pre-Patch lull). If you really want the Glamour as quickly as possible, than it needs a little dedication.

[For clarification: Perspective of someone who raids 3-ish hours per week due to work, real life and wanting time for other in-game activities.]

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

I don't really agree with that. The better - and above all, dyable version - is a reward for Savage. And yes, Savage is a more difficult reward and does require more time outside of the lockouts than Alliance Raids or EX Trials. It takes time and Gil to raid, but if one wants more time for other activities, than one should limit the time they spend inside a Raid a week. You can clear them rather casually as well with little time, just not in the first few weeks.

Those who just want the Gear for Glamour can easily do so one expansion later (Alphascape Glamour farms are rather frequent on my DC, even during pre-Patch lull). If you really want the Glamour as quickly as possible, than it needs a little dedication.

[For clarification: Perspective of someone who raids 3-ish hours per week due to work, real life and wanting time for other in-game activities.]

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Well, let me put it this way: I think the weapon should definitely be on the final boss given the difficulty curve, but if they are going to stick with dyable armor, that should be the first three. I could see that as a fair compromise because that final fight is way stacked. I mean, they might as well throw in a 10% chance to get a housing permit on top of the armor, weapon, and special mount.

I disagree on it being a massive gil hole. I haven't spent a dime on pots or food in years. I just make it myself or gather mats and have a friend make it.


Easy enough to do, especially now.

Might as well make replica ultimate weapons purchasable

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Well, let me put it this way: I think the weapon should definitely be on the final boss given the difficulty curve, but if they are going to stick with dyable armor, that should be the first three. I could see that as a fair compromise because that final fight is way stacked. I mean, they might as well throw in a 10% chance to get a housing permit on top of the armor, weapon, and special mount.

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You are drastically exaggerating the difficulty of Savage. It's not impossible to do. Granted, Shiva/E8S is a little tricky, but that's because Light Rampant is difficult because of how the Server Tick works and screws people.

I literally only started raiding because I wanted dyable gear without waiting, so like... no.

Keep dyable raid gear in Savage only.

All gear should be dyeable. There should be no undyeable version of anything.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

You are drastically exaggerating the difficulty of Savage. It's not impossible to do. Granted, Shiva/E8S is a little tricky, but that's because Light Rampant is difficult because of how the Server Tick works and screws people.

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How hard is it compared to alphascapes? I spent half a year on those with a static, raiding maybe 4-6 hours a week, and only managed to clear O9S and O10S. IIRC O10S wasn't an entirely reliable clear either. We had just started on progging O11S when some interpersonal conflicts led to me leaving the static (and I suspect the entire static disbanded not long after). It seems a bit slow to me given how raid tiers are released at approximately 8-month intervals, but it's also the only time I've done savage raiding in FFXIV so I have no point of comparison.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

You are drastically exaggerating the difficulty of Savage. It's not impossible to do. Granted, Shiva/E8S is a little tricky, but that's because Light Rampant is difficult because of how the Server Tick works and screws people.

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Light rampant was a mistake. It's hardly the toughest part in the fight, but the only part that really comes close is the multi-mirrors when she warps to north or south side. Tanks and groups have to really make sure they got the positions down and I think I cursed myself as a tank each time the red mirror spawned N/S. I could never get her positioned as close to the mirrors going West and East.

FYI I'm not exaggerating at all but there is a good chance that this was largely due to Light Rampant. It was sort of like you couldn't even learn the later phases until you broke through light rampant, and once you broke through light rampant it was pretty easy to make it to knockback mirrors which is a huge chunk of the fight. But it took weeks to get through all of it regardless.

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Originally Posted by tdb

How hard is it compared to alphascapes? I spent half a year on those with a static, raiding maybe 4-6 hours a week, and only managed to clear O9S and O10S. IIRC O10S wasn't an entirely reliable clear either. We had just started on progging O11S when some interpersonal conflicts led to me leaving the static (and I suspect the entire static disbanded not long after). It seems a bit slow to me given how raid tiers are released at approximately 8-month intervals, but it's also the only time I've done savage raiding in FFXIV so I have no point of comparison.

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I'm not really sure myself since this was the first time I've done any savage raiding in ages. The difficulty spike going from E7S to E8S was pretty big. FYI there is truth to what RicaRuin is saying because the final fight was heavily gated by Light rampant. There is a reason every group even after clearing the fight was basically "light rampant prog". Knockback mirror phase was more an exercise of positioning and cooldown management (also warrior gets to cheat that phase so hard.)

Yoshi p said in the last live letter e11 savage will slow progression for savage groups. Then there is the comment he made about BLM and E12. That he could not describe in words what it was like to do that fight as a blm. lol Take that last part as you will could be good could be bad. As for saving gil when running savage, take up crafting or get a Omni crafter to back your team in exchange for mats or carries after bosses are on farm.