Bland NPCs. How will they save a doomed plot?

So I was watching this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVYhc...feature=relmfu

Watch it.





Done? Okay.

In a previous interview Yoshi-P admitted something along the lines that he currently felt that there were no particularly likeable NPCs when asked which one was his favorite.
It seems to me that currently the circle of knowing (Yda, Papalymo, Y'shtola and Thancred) are the biggest characters in the plot and after watching the distant video I felt like they were lacking on every aspect.

(I will now reference XI, but you can take pretty much any FF character for comparative)
Prishe was liked or hated since the minute she laid eyes upon you. Aldo? Come on, I'm sure we all raved like school girls to know more about his past.

I think the only character in FFXIV that stands to FF quality regarding character design is the detective and his assistant, but they aren't even part of the main plot!

Having the main storyline SO tied to these lukewarm characters makes me really fret for the future of XIV's storyline.

Even the main evil characters don't seem to compare (compare the legatus vs the first moment the duke of jeuno talks to you, with his little brother roaming the room. See what I mean?).
The best I can say currently about the "judges" is that they have cool armors and remind me of darth vader.

I don't think there's been a Cid with less personality in any FF for that matter.
And don't get me started with the no personality leader of the whatever its called organization that gives you the path companion.


So where I'm going? Well, everything's getting fixed, but what about the plot? How can you fix something so tied to characters that bland?

Seriously, I want to hear ideas. The plot is one of FF's major sell points to me at least.

I think they did well with the GC leaders but we only see them for a very short time, lots of lost potential there

The old main scenario does suck. The GC quests have me liking the imperials, at least. Nael (the white guy) is a decently good crazy villain but I'm pretty sure we're going to kill him in 1.23. That will leave us with Gaius (darth vader) who could be pretty cool if he's given more screen time.

They also introduced the sultana of Ul'dah in one of the Immortal Flames quests. The job quests have a lot of good characters too.

If they add a bunch of main scenario quests (like have the current level 46 one happen at 25, and then have a lot of new ones all the way up to cap) then they'll have plenty of time to flesh out characters.

I liked Yda and Papalymo. Yda was cute. My favorite part was with Papalymo fainted when he found out that he could have ended up as so much confetti littering the twelveswood.

Y'shtola is as dull as dishwater tho. Thancred is not much better.

As for the above mentioned Imperials, I find Stupid Evil and Derp just as unlikeably one dimensional. Supposedly there's some sort of conflict between the two, but it's not interesting at all.

Talking beneath the moonlight makes them seem more like lovers than rivals.

...

:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

The old main scenario does suck. The GC quests have me liking the imperials, at least. Nael (the white guy) is a decently good crazy villain but I'm pretty sure we're going to kill him in 1.23.

---

Death is a good cleanser... Maybe dalamud could land on the circle of knowing lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

They also introduced the sultana of Ul'dah in one of the Immortal Flames quests. The job quests have a lot of good characters too.

---

Haven't seen this, what quest?

Its surprising minor characters are often amusing with a distinct voice. Momodi (uldah starter npc) is one of these.

The problem with the main plot npc's lies in the fact that they are members of the circle of knowing -

a) they know too much already. Contrast this to other FF's where most good guys were just as much in the dark as the player and events unfolded and we had all those "ah ha / so thats why x happened" moments

b) they all appear to be level 99 already. see r46 mission, we as players have no desire to cheer them on, theres nothing at stake as they have always been "uber" since mission 1. Contrast this to other FF's where allies got their asses handed to them and so we watched the characters grow and develop into the finale.

c) its boring that the npcs all come from the same group (circle of knowing). Contrast this to COP where all the allies came from different parts of the world and different factions with different world views and motivations (Shikaree sisters / Louverance / Tenzen / Prishe / Selteus / et al - the in game lore practically doubled as all these characters and mention of other regions was introduced).

d) as a result, Yda, Papalymo, Thancred, Yshtola have all taken on the role of the same character within the story. Fair enough if the stories were nation specific, but as they merged that was a no no. It would be like watching star wars and every ally was obi wan.

e) we know practically nothing about them, we dont have any quest lines to find out their background. we have the Echo but dont think "hold on a minute lets find out who these people are lol". contrast this to any other FF. my favourite parts of other ff's have often been the sidequests finding out a characters past and secrets


And the Path of The Twelve lady has to be the blandest NPC in any RPG. She doesnt even have a unique model. Further the whole concept of the Path of the Twelve with all their rules make the whole concept of the Echo seem dull. Whats the point of having such a power if we cant abuse it. What is the point of this faction? It seems wholly unncessary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majidah

In a previous interview Yoshi-P admitted something along the lines that he currently felt that there were no particularly likeable NPCs when asked which one was his favorite.

---

This interview was clearly done before Hildibrand was added...!

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59...DA7CD89DE81C1/

<3

I have a feeling we'll get to see more Hildebrand in the future :). I think to add some oomph to the main scenario cut scenes we need more voice acting.

Yda & Papalymo are awesome, I duno what the big deal is with people complaining about the story, its barely begun and is on hiatus until 2.0

Yoshi-p has conformed the story will pick up where it left off in 2.0 and I'm sure the characters stories will become more intertwined and meaningful.

The only characters in 11 I really liked were Fickblix poor guy :( and Shantotto.

Papalymo is awesome! Shutup O.P!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majidah

Haven't seen this, what quest?

---

There might be blood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POUeomqDzkE

But it's a sidequest, not a GC quest.

I tend to lean towards agreeing as far as particularly exciting characters tied up in the main plot. On the other hand, there is Cid and he's a decent character so far.

I also have to whole-heatedly disagree on the note of Villains. FFXI had some decent villains at times, but it never had the oppressive, evil-looking-armor-wearing Empire that one basically expects of a high-fantasy era Final Fantasy.

I just hope they kick the Empire into overdrive with 2.0. In terms of content, ( I want to fight them more often. ) But more importantly, in terms of presentation. If I see one more dunce running around in an Acton claiming to be an imperial soldier I'll drop meteor on Eorzea myself.

In 2.0 I want to see all normal imperial soldiers sporting armor a la the current centurions, with variations based on their roles in battle (see imperial troops in FFXII, seeing as we have the same art director... not sure how he allowed this to happen!) Here's to hoping the morons in cloth armor are just Ala'Mihgan conscripts, and are replaced in the near future with properly armored imperials.

Also, Imperial March. We need a better one. Sorry big N try again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KiriA500

This interview was clearly done before Hildibrand was added...!

<3

---

Sub characters can be as memorable, if not more, than main story characters. Even ones with just simple gimmicks. Yeah, Hildibrand is not going away, but I hope he's not the only sub character built upon in any way, shape or form. It'd be harder to introduce such characters due to the lack of structure to support them, but I can only hope it is possible.

That being said, I agree with Altanas. The Path of the Twelve is a dull part of the story, the rules take the fun out of having such a power, and Thancred should really play on the kind of trouble classic bards are known to get into. May take away from the heroics, but it would give the character some depth.

GC leaders are great but not around unless you're in a few cs's =(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

There might be blood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POUeomqDzkE

But it's a sidequest, not a GC quest.

---

Best CS in the game right here

The GC leaders will be used a lot more in the future, that's pretty certain. The main reason various NPCs aren't memorable is simply because you don't see them enough. Of course, if FFXI wasn't as messed up at launch as it was, we might be visiting new places and seeing more of the main story characters than we are now. Most of the dev team focus is on 2.0, so we're not going to see a lot of change until that hits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KiriA500

This interview was clearly done before Hildibrand was added...!

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59...DA7CD89DE81C1/

<3

---

LOL yeah, it was; in fact I think Hildibrand was the first step to fix this, I believe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altanas

And the Path of The Twelve lady has to be the blandest NPC in any RPG. She doesnt even have a unique model. Further the whole concept of the Path of the Twelve with all their rules make the whole concept of the Echo seem dull. Whats the point of having such a power if we cant abuse it. What is the point of this faction? It seems wholly unncessary.

---

I've been secretly hoping that the blondie is actually this evil mastermind. I mean, she can't be THAT bland. There MUST be a reason. I HOPE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majidah

LOL yeah, it was; in fact I think Hildibrand was the first step to fix this, I believe

---

What I'm hoping for is a breakdown between parody characters, non-serious characters and recurring characters with one of the former two as a foundation.

An example (pardon for mentioning WoW) would be Hemet Nesingwary, the big game hunter that's a reference to Ernest Hemingway that has had questlines devoted to his way to life in 3 of the 4 WoW expansions. Another (and more recent) example would be Mylune, a dryad that's obsessed with the protection of cute and fuzzy animals. Both of them are memorable characters, despite being tertiary characters (in the case of Mylune, she's a daily quest-giver). Neither saved the world, but are remembered.

It's been a while since I've looked over the main plot but if we're discussing the rebel characters, least I think they're rebels, then I think the way they are represented is perfect considering the situation. If I'm not mistaken they are trying to get the 3 nations to work together but they are also trying to remain hidden so they don't draw attention from the empire. If it was let out that they were a group of rebels then the empire may threaten the nation unless they turned them over so for them to remain mundane is perfect for the situation. As the story progresses and the threat begins to crumble then perhaps they can begin to have more larger then life personalities but they are trying to act serious considering the situation at hand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Airget

It's been a while since I've looked over the main plot but if we're discussing the rebel characters, least I think they're rebels, then I think the way they are represented is perfect considering the situation. If I'm not mistaken they are trying to get the 3 nations to work together but they are also trying to remain hidden so they don't draw attention from the empire. If it was let out that they were a group of rebels then the empire may threaten the nation unless they turned them over so for them to remain mundane is perfect for the situation. As the story progresses and the threat begins to crumble then perhaps they can begin to have more larger then life personalities but they are trying to act serious considering the situation at hand.

---

actually they are Archons; and together they are the circle of knowing

scroll over for spoilers

God yes... good thread is good

The Quasi-FFXII story has potential... and I realize it's unfinished...
But if someone was baking a cake and they used cement mix instead of flour... you don't have to wait until it's done baking to know its not gonna turn out right

The NPCs really do have no life or purpose.... Yoshi talks about building the atmosphere around this impending doom... but other than the moon being ridiculously big... no one in Eorzea seems to give a shit

Its not even about voice acting... the Chrono Trigger/FFVI era characters had much MUCH more life

then the story is told in annoyingly futile little parts.... The level 42 main scenario quest is so bad that it hurts...
Its so bad that one of my friends didn't even realize there was a 42 quest... he thought 42 and 46 were both a part of the same quest

I repeat... It is not due to the unfinished story...
there is a great story underneath... some really awesome shit brewing...
But the story telling is HORRIBLE....
Its like your awkward friend struggling to tell you a joke
Im sure if the story was rewritten by Akiva Goldsman and narrated by Morgan Freeman it would be a hit...
But come on....

The NPC dialogue is subpar.... Character Development does not exist....
The most memorable characters in the game are in the Culinarian class quests.... Seriously SE? The cooking quests are your best work?
The fact that the entire community is cheering for this moon/meteor/machine thing to destroy everyone and everything in Eorzea is a bad BAD sign

Overweening Thaumaturge from the Thaumaturge questline is also pretty memorable.

According to this the writer of FFXIV, Yaeko Sato, is also responsible for FFVIII, FFXII and Vagrant Story.

Which leaves one question out in the open... did he suffer a stroke before FFXIV?
How do you go from writing ashe and balthier to blonde lady from the market wards?

Quote:

---

The Quasi-FFXII story has potential... and I realize it's unfinished...
But if someone was baking a cake and they used cement mix instead of flour... you don't have to wait until it's done baking to know its not gonna turn out right

---

^ This.

IMO the dalamud should utterly destroy the circle of knowing, the PCs should kill at least one of the judges and Cid needs to be seriously reworked.

Its the only salvation I see for the plot. Also the blonde chick needs to die. Somehow.

We could be in the middle of a quest and suddenly she suffers from a heart attack. I don't care.
Maybe she gets pregnant and has to take a 6 months leave, putting Naja Salaheem in charge of the situation.

I'm okay with the Circle of Knowing, they don't have to be removed, Cid is fine as well.
And I really like and cared about some of the class story characters like the THM girl or the miner brothers^^
Or Hildibrand..:D

The basic characters aren't bad or bland, they just aren't very developed yet, which is no wonder considering there hasn't been anything happening yet...at all.
If I played with Yda and Papalymo, fought alongside them and saw one shed tears or go into rage mode over the other getting hurt badly, I'd be totally touched and sad and..bah.
You understand what I'm trying to say? The problem aren't the characters (at least some of them), it's the missing story that should revolve around them but doesn't.

Well, some characters though really ARE just bland and boring, like the blonde girl from the path of the Twelve.

Yda and Papalymo are good, not sure about the other 2. But the Grid story was neat i liked it and i want to know more about the duo to be honest. =/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shyd

Yda and Papalymo are good, not sure about the other 2. But the Grid story was neat i liked it and i want to know more about the duo to be honest. =/

---

Thancred showed signs of being the funny sweet ladies' man flirting with every girl out there.
It was actually kind of funny to watch ;)
But they'd have to expand on that.

Y'shtola..well..she showed no character traits yet..and I finished the main story as well es pretty much everything the GC had in store for me..
The old guy in Gridania whose name is too complicated to remember is your typical old good-willed grandpa full of knowledge of the old times who loves to tell veeeeery long stories..:rolleyes:
That's fine too.

Just..Yshtola..meh :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shyd

Yda and Papalymo are good, not sure about the other 2. But the Grid story was neat i liked it and i want to know more about the duo to be honest. =/

---

The Uldah NPC from the circle of knowing is basically a character with zero personality, who flirts a little, and tries to be cryptic and act as if he knew more than us but never explains anything for some reason.

The Uldah plot had actually a really good structure BEFORE the whole circle of knowing bullcrap.
Spoilers:
The family of nobles were purposeful doing crap to manipulate the people against the empire so that they could start a war against it. Then they kill pretty much everyone important and go with the circle of whatever plot line.

Limsa Lominsa storyline was also really interesting with the search for the treasure of Robbenholm, the different pirate crews competing to overthrow the Admiral, sahagin's teaming up with them, and the first appearance of the Ascian which are by far the most interesting characters in FFXIV anyways.
Y'shtola didn't really hurt this story, the "We'll just stop this story right in the middle of it, won't tell you a word about it but send you to Ul'dah to do this Path of the Twelve crap." for sure did though.

I hope that after the dalamud crashes we aren't able to see into people's minds anymore and the path of the Twelve just gets fucked up by an ent.

I think its a cheap device for storytelling. Instead of finding ways that fit to give us access to said knowledge we just read minds... ugh.

A lot of the newer characters added to scenarios have a lot of character and depth to them. I am a personal fan of the whole DRG storyline quest itself. The characters had an interesting background story and interacted well with each other, not to mention you felt significant to the quest line.

Yes, I do feel like the old development team did not put a lot of character depth besides within the Circle of Knowing. I actually like those characters. The story itself is great, but the character's I feel lacked true personality. I do not feel antagonized by the Empire. I really felt antagonized and shocked by Kam'lanaut and Eald'narche in FFXI when I found out they were pulling the strings in the whole fiasco.

Even right now in the GC company quests, the new development team was able to put some life and character into Baelsar and Darnus. Darnus seems like a more aggressive, hot-headed character, believing Meteor will destroy the primals without consequence beyond that. Baelsar opposes the idea believing that Meteor can't be controlled. I like this because it so both have the same ideals, but opposing methods of making those ideals a reality, inevitably leading to conflict between the two. This makes me wonder how things will work out when we fight one of them, or both of them in 1.23.

But new team wise, it looks like they understand how characters were displayed before and putting more life into them, so I wouldn't worry about this. Final Fantasy always delivers on story, even when poor mechanics are made around it.