Basically one to replace all the rest of combat mob drops. Maybe called a trapper. I doubt se would add it but it is a glaringly obvious additional if SE wanted to add more to the over world. It could work like a mix of fisher for catching mobs and botanist/mining for actually items. But this would also cause a conflict in retainers, which I dunno which would be the best way to handle it.
A 4th gather?
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11-21-2020, 12:51 AMBsrking5A 4th gather?
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11-21-2020, 02:22 AMdmitrykotov93
I doubt we ever get new DoH/DoL job but I remember they gave some hints on "player controlled farms" when they announced Ishgardian restoration.
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11-21-2020, 02:36 AMEnkidoh
There was once a planned fourth Disciple of the Land class in the original 1.0 version of FFXIV, called 'Shepherd' (SHP for short), with their class icon apparently a pair of antlers, and they even had an empty (locked) Guildhall in the old pre-Calamity Falcon's Nest. Whatever the class's mechanics or purpose was planned to be is unknown, but it was speculated that it was to be some kind of 'trapper' class that caught beasts and monsters for their hides and meat, but nothing is known for certain.
However for whatever reason it was never finished and hence was dummied out of 1.0 completely. And alas, as all references to it have disappeared in ARR (the Guildhall has disappeared and was not 'rebuilt' in post-Calamity Falcon's Nest), it can be assumed SE have long since abandoned any intention of adding it sadly. -
11-21-2020, 02:18 PMJojoya
The combat drops give players who don't gather or craft an additional way to make some gil.
I don't see SE changing that because there's really no need to.
Everything they've said since about the farms seems to make them related to minions. There's been no indication they will be a source of crafting materials.Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitrykotov93
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11-22-2020, 04:37 AMBsrking5It wouldn't stop them. Plus open world mob grinding isnt that interesting. Like I could see a point if it was about fate bosses drops or anything self contained in fates. Or hunts. Just seems like the ability to have them isnt that far off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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11-22-2020, 06:45 PMMartaDemireux
I had an idea for this via a Monster Ranch so I'm definitely on board. Basically a DoL to get monster drops in the wild and to use a ranch to farm more from tamed monsters (instanced like an apartment). Could use those tamed monsters for Beastmaster pet glamours, monster PvP/Arena and more.
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11-23-2020, 03:55 AMJojoyaSome players enjoy open world mob grinding (I'm not one of them, though).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsrking5
Add in a gathering profession that collects the same items directly, and you depress the market even further if both are an option.
SE could do it but there is no reason to when every player has already free access to gather the items (assuming they have MSQ access to enter the appropriate zone).
It doesn't hurt to have to buy some of the things you need from other players on occasion. What else is gil for? -
11-24-2020, 09:17 AMBsrking5Who? How often do you see players doing that, how often do you see party finder for it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
You can get shards from mobs drops, and other certain gathering items. They dont depress the market that much and is it really that bad?
You can get free access to gather items but then the also have beast tribe vendors that sell them too and the shared fate system lets you buy them too.. Its like they need more access to them.
You can buy or sell all the other gathering items so I dont see your piont your making.
I'll throw this idea out. Do you think shard, crystals and clusters should be limited either gatherers or mob drops? With combat only you'd see crafting die out pretty fast and high MB values. -
11-24-2020, 03:06 PMADVSS
I actually wouldnt mind a trapper type class at all since gathering overworld mob drops, inst necessarilly that abundant, even if you think using mug is useful(highly inefficient btw due to cd time) way of getting them. Then again i havent messed with sending retainers out in forever, so maybe they added multipliers to what they bring back. But when i did, an hour wait for some mats you could get in less than half an hour just didnt make any sense to me.
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11-24-2020, 06:52 PMJojoyaWhy would anyone list a PF for mob grinding? There are only two situations I can think of where a PF would make sense: if XP earned over time would be relatively close to what you get from a level appropriate dungeon (it's not) or if loot dropped by a creature went to every member of the party (it doesn't). Since neither of those apply, it makes more sense to farm open world mobs solo to get loot (mob grinding in dungeons isn't any more interesting than open world but it's sure a lot more rewarding when it comes to XP).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsrking5
My general point? There are already 17 jobs in the game capable of gathering those items and every player is guaranteed to have at least one of those jobs already. There is no need for another job to gather them. The same is not true for the vast majority of items obtained through mining. botany and fishing outside of the tiny number of exceptions like shards and crystals.
Better go take another look at what the beast tribe vendors sell. Very few of those items overlap what comes from the current gathering classes. My guess about the gemstone vendor items is that it's more part of SE's attempt to make FATEs feel more rewarding than a belief that those items don't drop enough (drop rates can easily be adjusted if that was the problem) but they didn't have enough vanity items to put on the vendors to make them feel full. Materia didn't even get added to them until 5.1.
As for shards and crystals, I doubt creature drops were intended as a primary source for shards and crystals with the 2.0 revamp. I have no clue what things were like in 1.0 but that they still drop from the creatures seems like it might be a holdover from the old system. -
11-24-2020, 07:32 PMMicahZerrshiaShards and crystals did indeed drop from monsters in v1 and it was beautiful. So much better than grinding out shards and crystals via gathering. It made crafting so much less tedious when you could get crystals and shards from doing everyday things instead of having to grind out the shards and then grind out the actual components. Now if it were 1 crystal/shard a synth, sure that wouldn't be too bad, but when its 4 > 5 > 6 or even more, it becomes a lesson in tedium. There is a reason rmt make bank off of these items. It is simply nothing more than another road block for new players trying to make a little gil or who want to try their hand at crafting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
The true holdover from an old system is having to use shards and crystals in the first place, which came from ffxi. It's not a system you normally see in mmos or single player games because it simply makes 0 sense to have your players gather 7 items that are completely unrelated to the craft on top of the items you need for the actual synthesis to take place. It did make more sense in v1 because you advanced the craft by keeping the elements of the crystals in balance, but when they got rid of that, admittedly horrific, crafting mini game there was no reason to actually keep the crystal requirement outside of just being what was always done.
Having alternate ways to gather worthless or meaningless materials is not necessarily a bad thing, especially if they could make it fun and interesting. And when it comes to enemy drops, like skins, fleece, wings, etc. having an alternate system would be nothing but a boon. You know when you go to gather ore, that you are going to get a minimum of 4 ore per node. But when you go farm skins you can kill 10 beasts before you even see 1. And since it takes 2+ skins to make 1 leather, just like it takes 2+ ores to make one ingot, this disparity becomes even more obvious.
On top of that retainers can bring back 30 ores but only 10 skins, which makes 0 sense. So, again, having an alternate way to get some of these materials would be wonderful. -
11-25-2020, 08:30 AMJojoyaActually, it did make sense in ARR. We only needed 1 skin per leather while we needed 3 ore per ingot. End result in both cases was 10 intermediate crafted materials.Quote:
Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia
It stopped making sense in HW when the number of skins needed was increased to 3 and the number of ore/sand (most of the time) needed increased to 5. That gave us 3 leather but 6 ingots/nuggets (sometimes 7 when only 4 were needed).
Why didn't SE adjust the numbers so we'd get the same net intermediate materials from ventures? I don't know. It could have been pure oversight or it could have been an attempt to adjust the market based on the volumes being obtained through direct gathering/creature kills and/or market prices.
Players are always happy to get more convenience. It doesn't mean that convenience is always a good thing.
Bot activity also throws a wrench into the mix. Anything that benefits players will benefit bots even more because they're far more efficient than players ever will be when it comes to gathering. Right now the prices on skins tends to remain higher because there aren't a lot of bots doing creature farming as far as I can tell. You've got creatures need for MSQ progression that sometime drop crafting materials that the bots leveling through MSQ can sell but I don't think I've ever seen bots farming those creatures independently.
Set up a skinning type gathering profession and the bots will move in, just as they have with mining, botany and fishing. Prices will sink rapidly, depressing the market prices for those items and the items made with them even further. If that the outcome you want? -
11-25-2020, 05:32 PMMicahZerrshiaYou cannot base the content of your entire game around the fear of what a bot may or may not do. If that would be the case then they could eliminate the gathering market completely and make all materials untradeable in the next ff mmo since its apparently such a game breaking problem in this one. But no matter what you add, the people who write the bot programs will try to monopolize on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
This is a knee jerk (over)reaction to content that could genuinely be fun if done well. And very reminiscent of my mom when she disagreed with something I was interested in (You will end up homeless or in a ditch somewhere! Is that what you want!?) Change or just trying something new is not always a bad thing, sure bots will monopolize on it, because that is what they always do. So it falls on SE to make things fun for players and more of a pita for bots or get more strict with the botters. But that is a balance that can never truly be achieved. Right now the time vs cost of skins is not worth it for anyone to actively farm, which is why the bots don't do it en masse and also why the cost of items that use skins is so much higher. This also means that leatherworkers and weavers are at a much higher disadvantage and it drives the prices up all around for even their basic items which is a disadvantage to everyone.
If we went by the philosophy of cannot add new content because botters will overrun it and ruin it for everyone we wouldn't have treasure hunts or firmament. They may as well not added things like Eureka or Bozja either. It would be just straight msq and raids with untradeable drops. More fun and interesting content is what I want. Bots are a side effect of that, always have been always will be. But if SE isn't willing to crack down harder on the people who support that bots instead of just the bots themselves, it will forever be a growing problem. If you want to be rid of a weed, you need to dig up the root.
Adding a system that would be fun and have the benefit of allowing more people to make some gil is in no way a bad thing. -
11-25-2020, 06:43 PMADVSSTo add to this, if the new job was locked behind having a relevant doh level, or expansion area(kugane, eulmore etc) You would automatically lock it out of what most botters are willing to go to to even bother with it as far as i can see, the ARR seem more rampant, less so in expansion areasQuote:
Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia
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11-26-2020, 07:01 AMJojoyaBut the system already exists and every player already has access to it without needing to learn a new job.Quote:
Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia
What's the point?