The problem I have with relic weapons

Not a troll thread I promise.

I know how we have been plagued by those.

So here's a couple issues I have, some have been mentioned before. I wanted to get your thoughts on what you think is wrong - if anything at all - with relic weapons.

I am a filthy casual.

TLDR I am not a fan of how we upgrade the relic weapons. But I don't think it should change because "I don't like it".

1. I hate the grind. I don't mind the dungeons, the story elements and the running around from one npc to the other to hear a snippet of story before doing a dungeons to then unlock the weapon.
2. I hate the Fate Grinding or or any other kind of "fetch x of this to upgrade"*. Regardless of how easy it is, I already have a full time job, why would I leave my 8 hour a day job after a long day to sit for 3 hours and grind fates? To me that annoys me.

* - Dungeons are another story, Ill do those endlessly, but I wont grind fates, read on.

I wouldn't even have a relic system to be honest because while yes these are relic weapons for the expansion, they are quickly replaced by your first quest or two in the new expac.

Aside from glamour for the future - they are useless beyond the current expansion. Grind for the sake of pixels.

Now I left GW2 - because it was all grind and thank god FF 14 is not grind. Unless you want the relic weapons, the savage raids and such.

I am not advocating we get rid of it or god forbid make it easier. But other avenues might be nice - like special tomes that you do dungeons for. What's the difference between dungeons and fates? Nothing accept one is more visually appealing and less of an eye strain when its 4 people and not 400 people and their effects.

Yes I know you can turn those off.

I understand we need some kind of end game and giving people a set of pixels to chase is what's on the dinner table.

I usually do the relic weapon to get the base item. Never above that. I prefer my story oriented content with dungeons and NPC's and cut scenes. Not endless grinding for pixels to then get pixels. (unless its tomes , patches are usually locked behind some kind of "ilevel" and that to me is fair. Because tomes are easy to get.)

What are your thoughts?

The point of relics is for filthy casuals to get relatively powerful weapons. It is time intensive - your ability to commit that time to specific intervals and/or your personal skill level do not matter in the slightest. I would argue that "casual" is not how much you play the game, but how you choose (or are able) to spend that time.

At this point, I think SE should start giving free relics as login rewards.

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Originally Posted by Novae

At this point, I think SE should start giving free relics as login rewards.

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I mean, Resistance Weapons are pretty much free (discounting the Ivalice raids gate)

Personally the relics for 5.X have been some of the easiest to get. So far there hasn't been any 'YOU CAN ONLY DO THIS IN EUREKA' type bullcrap and I'm pretty bloody happy about that.

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Originally Posted by Berkilak

The point of relics is for filthy casuals to get relatively powerful weapons.

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So anyone that has a ilvl 500 resistance weapon is a filthy casual?

Honestly I believe relics should involve some sort of grinding.

I mean the obtaining the relic is simply trading in tomes. Upgrading it though it needs a grind.

The biggest hurdle is simply fate farming, which you get guaranteed drops from each fate. You could also go into Bozja and cluster farm and get memories that way as well randomly but that would definitely be way too much grinding. Its a low effort upgrade honestly.

you can do a little bit at a time and make significant progress.

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Originally Posted by Magnedeus

So anyone that has a ilvl 500 resistance weapon is a filthy casual?

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Reductionist.

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Originally Posted by Novae

At this point, I think SE should start giving free relics as login rewards.

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Like having them delivered by moogle mail ? It seems like a good idea, but wouldn't we still have some people complaining that the next delivery moogle is way too far, and that the distance to reach him should be nerfed ?

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

Like having them delivered by moogle mail ? It seems like a good idea, but wouldn't we still have some people complaining that the next delivery moogle is way too far, and that the distance to reach him should be nerfed ?

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They actually are a bit oddly placed in the main cities >.>

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Originally Posted by Novae

At this point, I think SE should start giving free relics as login rewards.

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It's what some want. Grind is taboo... can't have that. Heaven forbid you have something to do.

I've sometimes wondered how well a dual progression system would work where one part is challenge log and the other is whatever is (so like fate grinds, dungeons, what have you). We sort of have one with the Bozja weapon, I think it was nice of them to offer.

For a while I thought the challenge log could do with a currency dedicated to it's own that just gets updated each patch, cause sometimes you're like "I DONT WANT ANY SEALS" lol or the amount of X just isn't that great anymore.

Easy logs giving you a tier B token and the harder ones giving you a tier A (or make it so easier tasks give you shards of the token, like heart fragments in Zelda games- so there is really only one token). Ideally the cost of each step is built into some advanced window so you don't have to play with a bunch of inventory shuffle (like if SE determines 5 A tier tokens = 1 moonstone of waffling then in the window to upgrade your relic it'll ask for either 1 moonstone or 5 A tokens).

Back onto topic then relic can use this to in a sense let you play whatever content you wanted really. Want to progress your relic through the golden saucer? Sure. Might take a while if that's all you do but "sure".

Certainly doesn't have to be this way but it might allow for a relatively simple system that allows players to play how they want but not get the relic in 10 seconds by simply hecking the bed. Don't like FATE spam? Go do some of your challenge log instead, depending on how fast you want to push the relic you can literally play any content you want (could get a relic from purely chocobo races lol).

Also it would have a potentially interesting, minor, side effect where your first / focused relic goes faster than if you start to do a bunch of them at once (say if you were doing FATEs and your challenge log is also completing the FATE related rewards, put that all onto one item would be faster than spreading it out since challenge log has a reset timer). Interesting in so much that it allows focused / casual players an option to go decently fast while people who play loads would have content elongated a little bit (since unfortunately grind is important as it's impossible to design an endless stream of unique content that'll last from one patch to the next).

I dont always like the grind (the light grinds drive me nuts from HW relics...I think) but I don't want them just handed to me. Sometimes, I wish we could apply the effect to our glamour weapons.

I do enjoy though when as a community, we are playing together. It makes the grind bearable.

Relics in 5.X take the least amount of time of all the relic weapons so far from previous expansions.

OP you said it yourself that your issue is really with the FATE grinding, and that is a perfectly valid point, however I would only say that compared to previous relic weapons, the Resistance Weapons are far more palatable to "grind", and the playerbase seems to mostly agree.
The idea of possibly giving an alternate route of getting the needed items via dungeon running isn't a bad idea though, but I guess the question would be what types of gameplay and engagement were the devs aiming for when they designed it the way they did?
I can see a thought process of perhaps not wanting to make it primarily dungeon based, as it could possibly result in lots of dungeons being speedrun at a pace that many would actively dislike.

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Originally Posted by Novae

At this point, I think SE should start giving free relics as login rewards.

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No that's a horrible idea.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

Personally the relics for 5.X have been some of the easiest to get. So far there hasn't been any 'YOU CAN ONLY DO THIS IN EUREKA' type bullcrap and I'm pretty bloody happy about that.

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I don't think relic weapons are hard to get, just annoying with the grind - regardless if its 1 hour or 3. I am not a fan of fate grinding. I would be much happier if it was dungeons or raids.

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

Honestly I believe relics should involve some sort of grinding.

I mean the obtaining the relic is simply trading in tomes. Upgrading it though it needs a grind.

The biggest hurdle is simply fate farming, which you get guaranteed drops from each fate. You could also go into Bozja and cluster farm and get memories that way as well randomly but that would definitely be way too much grinding. Its a low effort upgrade honestly.

you can do a little bit at a time and make significant progress.

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I guess it's more me "hating fates" it comes from GW2 with their world events that you would Zerg over and over again for precious drops. I was never a fan of that and quickly left the game (even though I loved GW 1) because it was so grindy.

I do agree we need a grind, but why not dungeons - make use of some of the old dungeons .

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

Like having them delivered by moogle mail ? It seems like a good idea, but wouldn't we still have some people complaining that the next delivery moogle is way too far, and that the distance to reach him should be nerfed ?

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I am not complaining about that or length of time - just the monotonous grind.

you probably would have like the ARR/HW relic grind then instead of this. but as grinds got more grindy leading up to Eureka, the pendulum has now swung way the other way because the devs wanted to make this one easier intentionally.

just have to wait and see what the 6.x relic series will look like.

My cat is beautiful soul

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

you probably would have like the ARR/HW relic grind then instead of this. but as grinds got more grindy leading up to Eureka, the pendulum has now swung way the other way because the devs wanted to make this one easier intentionally.

just have to wait and see what the 6.x relic series will look like.

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That's actually why I created this conversation. ARR was a hard no once it came to fate farming. I never did HW or SB. I know a lot of people like fate farming, so I don't want that to change - just more ways to get them aside from a 9-5 job after a 9-5 job. Doesnt have to be super easy or stupid - but more avenues.

By the time us casuals do get them, they are nothing more then glamour gear. Maybe we could upgrade them? I dunno.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

It's what some want. Grind is taboo... can't have that. Heaven forbid you have something to do.

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I have lots of "things to do". I just prefer those things to not involve repetitively doing something I don't actually enjoy because of an arbitrary decision that the player must do it X times to proceed.

If you wouldn't willingly go out and do fifty FATEs for enjoyment, why should you want to be forced to do so "to have something to do"? It's not a challenge or an achievement; it's just busywork.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I have lots of "things to do". I just prefer those things to not involve repetitively doing something I don't actually enjoy because of an arbitrary decision that the player must do it X times to proceed.

If you wouldn't willingly go out and do fifty FATEs for enjoyment, why should you want to be forced to do so "to have something to do"? It's not a challenge or an achievement; it's just busywork.

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They gave people an optional method to get the relic. Run 60 fates and do 6 dungeons. One doesn't even have to enter Borzan to get them. They've done lots to make it easier for those who complain about what they have to do. The fact of the matter is that people ALWAYS complain about relic, it's been part of the meta ever since I've been here.

First stage this forum was full of the 10 minute relic step that should have had a grind. Now we get one with a moderate grind and we get the same old it's too much of a grind and we shouldn't have to do it. You can't make everyone happy that's for sure.

Relic is optional content and one can simply go ahead and do tome weapons if what they've given us to do isn't something one doesn't want to participate in.

Personally they dumbed this relic down significantly from being able to ride a mount the minute you enter the zone to making dying not all that big of a deal. Mettle loss is minimal and where Eureka had a sense of actual danger this place is a breeze.

The relic grind in ffxiv is honestly not a grind, it is a slight amount of work. Especially this expansions relic. You can get it in less then a day from the start to the top tier currently. Shadowbringers relic they basically just hand to you.

Compare this to games in the past where grinds were a thing. Lineage with a BIS sword with a 0.01% drop rate on a boss that had long (10+ hr) respawns. Or FFXI's relic which would take a single person playing 30hrs a week almost 2 full years of work to get or a whole endgame guild of 60 ppl pooling resources 45-60 days to get a single person a relic. Those were grinds. Mount farming in ffxiv is more of a grind then relic weapons to be honest.

If anything FFXIV needs more content with Grinds. To keep the more hardcore players active once their weekly raids are done Tuesday night.

If you don't like grinding for relic weapons then don't? The stat differences to the other current endgame weapon options (augmented crystarium and edenchoir) are minimal. The base versions can be had for glamour purposes ridiculously easily, at just 1000 poetics each.

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Originally Posted by SavishSalacious

ARR was a hard no once it came to fate farming.

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ARR relic has an ATMA step that drops from fates (not 100% drop at release BTW) and then you needed to complete certain fates for the books (for those you had two options: wait for them to spawn by themself or complete certain fates and hope the one you needed spawned).

In any case, relics are just an excuse to keep any type of player busy. By default is going to be busywork, not any different from "level all classes" achievement. If you don't like what's requested simply stick to tome/crafted weapons and ignore it.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

ARR relic has an ATMA step that drops from fates (not 100% drop at release BTW) and then you needed to complete certain fates for the books (for those you had two options: wait for them to spawn by themself or complete certain fates and hope the one you needed spawned).

In any case, relics are just an excuse to keep any type of player busy. By default is going to be busywork, not any different from "level all classes" achievement. If you don't like what's requested simply stick to tome/crafted weapons and ignore it.

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I generally do ignore them, SHB was rumored to be easy to get and yoshi mentioned something about making it easy to upgrade. So I went for it. Alas I wont do that again Hahahaha. I mean if it was dungeon farming - I would be down.

Yeah... I personally enjoyed the grind for relic weapons. Ive been fairly disappointed with the resistance, kinda wish it was bit more difficult, older relics at least felt a lot more accomplished when completing.