How do you feel about the character cast of FFXIV.

After replaying through the story for a second time, I came to notice something about the story as a whole.

I won't deny that this is the best MMO story I have ever played, especially in Shadowbringers, but a certain aspect of it felt lacking. I then realized that for me, it is the characters.

Don't get me wrong, Emet-Selch certainly left a lasting impression on me, and I enjoyed Yotsuyu, Elidibus, Ardbert, and Crystal Exarch. Aside from this though, I realized I had no investment in any of the characters. I believe this is because the story always likes to focus on 'the greater good'. In telling their grand tale of nations and worlds, the relatability of the characters seems to be notably absent. With few exceptions, I see little in the way of internal struggles in the character cast.

I don't feel that they are affected when they incur losses, or at least it does not seem to be shown adequately. Urianger seems impervious to emotions, even when he loses those dear to him. I'd say the same of Y'sthola. Only reason I enjoy her at times is because of her sarcastic quips. I enjoyed the period of struggle with Thancred and Ryne, and wished there were more moments like that in the game. With the exception of a short period in the game with Nanamo, I felt no internal struggle in the alliance leaders as the plot moved forward.

I suppose that in summary, I do not feel this game focuses enough on what makes the characters tick, choosing to often favor the 'grand goal' instead. I am curious what the community thinks about this. Do you feel I am incorrect and that the characters receive enough detail as it is? Do you enjoy the character cast?

I feel the opposite way actually, coming from WoW, I really appreciate that there are small snippets and hints showing that say, a leader is torn because they don't like that X is happening but don't let it show, because they know that it is in their people's best interests to just endure X silently, for the moment being.

I guess I just got tired of leaders acting like hormonal teenagers throwing tantrum after tantrum like their emotions are more valuable than the lives of their people whom they throw at needless war after needless war for the sake of the past. But I acknowledge I may have a strongly biased experience due to previous MMO stories ^^'

Indifferent. The game is sorely lacking in nuanced, well written antagonists who are not just killed off for 'feels'.

I much prefer the FF7 model where the protagonists and antagonists play off of each other well and quite a lot of the latter end up surviving the events of the game itself and even work alongside the protagonists from time to time.

For all the praise FF14 gets, it handles many plot elements with kid gloves. There's minimal lasting consequences - 5.3 built up over the course of two patches in particular, though in the end a certain 'big bad' accomplished nothing of note. He didn't even get a kill on a throwaway NPC.

Most of the leader figures are bland and uninspiring, echoing the same 'feel good' nonsense that modern fantasy has become obsessed with combined with laying down rules for everybody but themselves.

Thankfully FF16 looks to be much more to my liking.

When I go back and play the older FF games, there's usually a few antagonists who survive who I like. FF14 has killed off every single character I actually cared about to any significant extent.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Indifferent. The game is sorely lacking in nuanced, well written antagonists who are not just killed off for 'feels'.

I much prefer the FF7 model where the protagonists and antagonists play off of each other well and quite a lot of the latter end up surviving the events of the game itself and even work alongside the protagonists from time to time.

For all the praise FF14 gets, it handles many plot elements with kid gloves. There's minimal lasting consequences - 5.3 built up over the course of two patches in particular, though in the end a certain 'big bad' accomplished nothing of note. He didn't even get a kill on a throwaway NPC.

Most of the leader figures are bland and uninspiring, echoing the same 'feel good' nonsense that modern fantasy has become obsessed with combined with laying down rules for everybody but themselves.

Thankfully FF16 looks to be much more to my liking.

When I go back and play the older FF games, there's usually a few antagonists who survive who I like. FF14 has killed off every single character I actually cared about to any significant extent.

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Couldn't agree more.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Indifferent. The game is sorely lacking in nuanced, well written antagonists who are not just killed off for 'feels'.

I much prefer the FF7 model where the protagonists and antagonists play off of each other well and quite a lot of the latter end up surviving the events of the game itself and even work alongside the protagonists from time to time.

For all the praise FF14 gets, it handles many plot elements with kid gloves. There's minimal lasting consequences - 5.3 built up over the course of two patches in particular, though in the end a certain 'big bad' accomplished nothing of note. He didn't even get a kill on a throwaway NPC.

Most of the leader figures are bland and uninspiring, echoing the same 'feel good' nonsense that modern fantasy has become obsessed with combined with laying down rules for everybody but themselves.

Thankfully FF16 looks to be much more to my liking.

When I go back and play the older FF games, there's usually a few antagonists who survive who I like. FF14 has killed off every single character I actually cared about to any significant extent.

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Yes, I would also have to agree. The alliance leaders all seem bland and vanilla to me. I feel part of that is because their personalities are static. Nanamo broke out of that a little bit at certain points and showed some emotion, but for the most part they have acted the same no matter what situation occurs. Rarely do they falter or show any sign of humanity. Merely a leader. The reason I liked Emet-Selch so much despite him focusing so much on his 'greater good' was because I could tell he was battling with himself. He had a fierce internal struggle going on and you could see his burden weighing on him. Not so with the alliance leaders or some of the Scions.

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Originally Posted by zlygork

I feel the opposite way actually, coming from WoW, I really appreciate that there are small snippets and hints showing that say, a leader is torn because they don't like that X is happening but don't let it show, because they know that it is in their people's best interests to just endure X silently, for the moment being.

I guess I just got tired of leaders acting like hormonal teenagers throwing tantrum after tantrum like their emotions are more valuable than the lives of their people whom they throw at needless war after needless war for the sake of the past. But I acknowledge I may have a strongly biased experience due to previous MMO stories ^^'

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How often do you see them being torn? Maybe it's too subtle for me, but I don't often notice this. The tones in their voices never shake or waver. Kan E-Sanna, Aymeric, Merwlyb are ALWAYS calm and collected, no matter how awful the situation. I suppose that is ideal for a leader, but it never shows them struggling with the burden in private or them confessing that burden to you like Nanamo once did.

Hate to say it since they're supposed to be our buds but I could honestly have the entire Scion cast killed tomorrow and not bat an eye. Well.. the whole cast dying haha might be surprising, but at least it'd not be "oh no I can't connect with the game anymore" experience lol. I do not care about a single one of them in the sense that I find them important to my experience. Often I look forward to the stories of the locations, or my own character's journey, and the new 'side' main characters. I'm certain Haurchefant's spit roast would have greater impacts than the loss of any of the Scions. Not that I hate the Scions, don't read hate- just that I'm not in love with them either. Probably Thancred or Urianger I find more interesting, one of the being part of my Ul'Dah quest chain and his affliction actually seemed to be one unlike double death dodging gifted eyes girl and then Urianger because the wording is kind of fun to read and I liked he had that temporary double cross thing.

The characters you (OP) listed as notable I also found interesting, also agree that ShB was quite good on the story (to the point I wouldn't be opposed to start comparing it to some single player games). I'd never have my character evil enough, nor think it a good choice for the game to do, but in sense of "trade scions for Emet? yes no?" I'd want to slap that yes button XD. It's why I kind of hope he appears via PTSD or some sort of magical PTSD (I do not want him to revive and get Y'shtola plot armor, but I wouldn't mind enjoying his character further through something like trauma via your main character).

In general the side 'main' characters part of the game tend to be pretty interesting, of course to varying levels. But like time with Hien > time with pretty much any Scion.

Zenos is like the enemy version of a Scion to me where I'm just like "yeah yeah sure whatever I'm not invested in you".

Besides the ones listed in OP I kind of have a fandom for Raubahn, Einstein, and Gaius.

Since you mentioned Nanamo I wanted to say I was really engaged during the whole Ul'dah chapter where Raubahn became all...rigght... huehue... I had wished that lasted longer and had a greater impact on the game too if possible. I think back when it was active content I was pinning for Ul'dah to go through collapse, having a whole section of homeless immortal flames, and having to rebuild Sil'dih as chaos takes over the city.

Lot of good and memorable npcs. But sadly our group, the Scions is the opposite of good

I feel you, OP. There are characters I love like the Exarch or Emet (I even grew fond of Lyse), but overall I don't care about the main Scions and I don't feel attached to them. Perhaps that's why I can't say that ShB was my favourite expansion.

To me, they all seem to act like tools. Useful tools that do the right thing. There's nothing more to them.

I just wish they would do more with Krile. Why did they even introduced her back in HW?

And I am especially salty about Alisaie. She was such a cool and promising character in ARR, abut when she actually joined us there was not much left of it. You could remove her from the cast and it would change absolutely nothing.

I'm just happy that I actually care about the Scions for once because in previous expansions, I didn't. ShB, in my eyes, was a reboot for them and a step in the right direction. Now they just need to spice up Lyse, Hien and other characters we interacted with and I'll be happy because there is potential there for all of them. I know it's important to introduce new characters per each expansion but by doing that, old characters are tossed to the side and forgotten, with a few exceptions of course. If SE can FINALLY make us care about the Ascians and the Scions, they can do the same for everyone else.

After already losing two of my favourite NPCs in Heavensward (one for purely dramatic reason too..) I have only the twins left that I really care about, even if Alisaie does kinda gets on my nerves a bit with her constant jealousy if others are interested in the WoL. But I do absolutely love her banter with Alphinaud and if anything happens to any of the the two I would be heartbroken. Other than that I do like some of the others but none would really leave me feeling really sad. I would probably still cry (because music and things can do wonders in such scenes) but not in any way that I have felt for the two already killed of NPCs. I guess after that I just could not fully connect to the rest of the new cast anymore?

I do have to give it to shadowbringers, at least they made me feel more like a part of the scions then all the expansions before that but I still would not really care if they die. And they too would probably just look a bit shocked and maybe one second sad if the others do too..so yeah most of the characters on the good side feel a bit bland. They are often just there to give us the plot points (and somehow know so much or have the right item at the right time...) and barely react to stuff too. It probably does not help that they are all so willing to throw away their lifes so that human faults like being afraid to die or witnessing something horrible are not really there. And anything is just shown with a few tears sliding down their faces (if they even cry at all) and no hugs are ever given...

Its kinda interesting that our own character has shown more trauma and even a bit of PTSD than any of the others. How ironic that the normally blank slate is more of its own character with some emotions than the rest.

Honestly, I wish we didn't have the twins. Alphinaud's a nuisance and the WOL clearly has some diplomatic skill they just prefer to nod silently and Alisae has been flanderised too much into being a crush.
Never really liked Thancred before, still don't now but he's improving.

I have liked Y'shtola, but it feels there's times when she's good and times when she isnt. Ryne was decent enough.

Tbh, I feel the problem with ffxiv's main character cast is they are somewhere between side characters and annoying, whereas some of the side characters or dead ones are the ones we should have kept for msq. Cid for example, or Moenbryda

On the villain side...why is it the shit villains keep getting brought back from the dead?
At least Gaius came back I suppose. But he's the exception that proves the rule.


Shb did basically confirm that my suspicions that the devs finally realised players preferred the minor scions over the major ones with the exception of Tataru. The B team of the scions like Riol, Hoary, Arenvald etc actually feel like they give a damn about the player whereas the major ones didn't.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

After already losing two of my favourite NPCs in Heavensward (one for purely dramatic reason too..) I have only the twins left that I really care about, even if Alisaie does kinda gets on my nerves a bit with her constant jealousy if others are interested in the WoL. But I do absolutely love her banter with Alphinaud and if anything happens to any of the the two I would be heartbroken. Other than that I do like some of the others but none would really leave me feeling really sad. I would probably still cry (because music and things can do wonders in such scenes) but not in any way that I have felt for the two already killed of NPCs. I guess after that I just could not fully connect to the rest of the new cast anymore?

I do have to give it to shadowbringers, at least they made me feel more like a part of the scions then all the expansions before that but I still would not really care if they die. And they too would probably just look a bit shocked and maybe one second sad if the others do too..so yeah most of the characters on the good side feel a bit bland. They are often just there to give us the plot points (and somehow know so much or have the right item at the right time...) and barely react to stuff too. It probably does not help that they are all so willing to throw away their lifes so that human faults like being afraid to die or witnessing something horrible are not really there. And anything is just shown with a few tears sliding down their faces (if they even cry at all) and no hugs are ever given...

Its kinda interesting that our own character has shown more trauma and even a bit of PTSD than any of the others. How ironic that the normally blank slate is more of its own character with some emotions than the rest.

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My guess was that not showing hugs in general was because of animation reasons. As in, they couldn't make it look smooth so they just didn't bother. I will admit that out of the remaining Scions, I probably like the emotional ones the most. So, Alisaie is my favorite remaining one because I can occasionally feel something when she speaks. She actually reacts to loss. I don't really care about Alphinaud. Even after Ryne's appearance, I still can't bring myself to care about Thancred. Ryne herself seemed to be promising at first, but after her plot was already neatly tied up in ShB 5.0, the writers don't really seem to know what to do with her. I noticed in the cutscenes she barely has any lines to contribute. I do not care even .01% about the other Scions or the Alliance leaders. I cared far more about the Ascians who I interacted with 5% of the time compared to the main cast. When the villains are the ones showing emotion and not the good guys, I think you have character issues in your game. I liked Ardbert because his emotions were genuine and his struggle real.

I expected Thancred to show a little emotion at a certain point with Ryne when the Scions finally had to go back to the Source, but I still felt little from his reaction. I was like, 'that's all you're gonna do to comfort her, dude?

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Honestly, I wish we didn't have the twins. Alphinaud's a nuisance and the WOL clearly has some diplomatic skill they just prefer to nod silently and Alisae has been flanderised too much into being a crush.

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I suppose that is different from me. I see our character as just being the blade who bends to the will of Scions/leaders. We are indeed supernaturally powerful, but I feel like intelligence is not our strong suit. That is the impression I received anyway, as we don't often have words to contribute. I give SE a pass on this one though, as it is difficult to make a blank slate character seem smart. SWToR certainly did a great job shaping the player characters, but I realize it would be quite the budget drainer to have our lines often be voiced and to give us various dialogue options that would affect the story path as SWToR does.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Honestly, I wish we didn't have the twins. Alphinaud's a nuisance and the WOL clearly has some diplomatic skill they just prefer to nod silently and Alisae has been flanderised too much into being a crush.

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Sure, the Warrior of Light has some diplomatic skill. Do you want to play that game instead? Because I would find the intricacies of off-screen diplomacy are best left out of this one. We are Trusted, and Trustworthy, but we are not diplomats or administrators.

I thought that the Scions were really meh during ARR. I guess the voice acting didn't help, but I just wasn't endeared to any of the characters except Minfillia and Alphinaud, and to an extent, Papalymo. Alphinaud came up as an ass at first, spiting on the deaths of the Scions in 2.0, but I became endeared to him as the little brother and the pseudo-commander as the patches went on. I really liked Minfillia because she was trying to run the operation and her self doubt. Papalymo also came across as friendly and as a good mentor, but sadly he barely had any screentime.

Everyone else came across as one dimensional. Thancred was the playboy thief, Y'shtola was the crass wizard, Urianger hardly had any screentime and his gimmick was to espouse exposition in Shakespearan manner (also didn't help that he couldn't facially emote because he had a hood up). I can't remember what Yda ever did (again, doesn't help her face is obstructed). I was more interested in the NPC Scions like Hoary Boulder, Coultenent, and F'lhaminn more than them.

I like Cid.

I love Nanamo and Raubahn. I was really endeared to their struggle during the ARR patches (also my eyes got watery during the 4.4 MSQ). I kinda like Merylwyb (her ARR voice actor was fantastic). Kan E Senna... she's sorta just there. I guess she's meh.

Yugiri was... she was "there". I guess she was meh. Never really liked her.

I liked Haucherfant but didn't love him like everyone else seems to.

I didn't like Estinien at first, he was sorta meh, but after he took off the helmet he became a lot more likeable. I really like Aymeric. I also like Count Fortemps and his sons, and also Honoroit :). Ysalye was really meh and forgettable, didn't like her. Hilda was okay but I keep forgetting she exists, kinda feels like another Yugiri.

I love Gosetsu and Hien, and Magnai and Sadu. And the Ruby Sea princess/sisters/princess and body double. And Hancock. Really I liked all of the Othard characters except Yugiri and the Mol girl.

I keep forgetting that the Ala Mhigan characters exist (except for Raubahn, Ilberd, and Fordola. They're cool).

I guess Krile exists. She is okay... real problem is she is always in the background so I'm not really attached to her or didn't get to really so her do anything.

I like Ramza from the Ivalice raids. Hope we get to see him again.

I think it was during Stormblood that I started liking the Scions. I felt bad when the visions started happening, whereas I didn't really care when they were captured during ARR or when they were missing in HW. I loved the Scions in Shadowbringers and now they're my favorite characters in the game, really feel like they're family best bros. It's just rather unfortunate that it took this long for me to get endeared to them. I also like the Crystal Exarch as a mentor/leader figure on the Source, not too keen on the "wanna be your best friend" part, we'll see where they go with that. Lyna was okay.

As for villains, I liked the ARR villains the most. Gaius is my favorite Garlean antagonist for being grounded (I just want to conquer and rule of you, no craziness or destroy the world crap), but his lack of screentime and his voice acting really brings him dowm. I wish Rhitahtyn had more screentime. I really liked the Griffin and cronies, he felt threatening and their motives were understandable and their plans were coherent. I liked Fordola. I like Emet-Selch but I don't love him. I like the idea of Zenos but it really depends on how they use him in the end (I hope he wins the 1v1 against the WoL. Zenos should be the strongest character, he moral probably shouldn't be about being the strongest, most violent killer, but relying on your friends. So the WoL should lose the 1v1 but win together with his friends). I didn't like the boring evil dragon and the boring evil pope. I was sorta indifferent to Varis until he started talking crazy towards the end of Stormblood, at which point I disliked him. Yotsuyu and Vauthry were meh. Ran'jit was okay; he really needed a couple of flashbacks showcasing his time with his prior students and how he was slowly worn down over the years.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Do you enjoy the character cast?

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Yes, I do, and I find your perspective strange. Though I find most people's perspective on this matter strange.

First of all, there are hardly ever personal losses for side character cast, but when there are... they really ham up the emotion. When Moenbryda died they had several quests dedicated to the Scions moping, notably, Urianger, Minfilia, and Yda. All of whom cried and lamented the loss of Moenbryda. Urianger is definitely NOT impervious to emotion. He's one of the most outwardly emotional Scions in the cast. Especially when he believes he's done wrong, even if said wrong was in the name of the greater good. I agree with this assessment for Y'shtola though.

As far as city-state leaders go, Nanamo gets a bigger focus because Ul'dah's government is the most corrupt, and she is the least competent leader we've got.

My suggestion to you would be to make sure you talk to the characters between quest advancement markers, as they have dialogue you can see nowhere else, which is where a lot of their fleshing out occurs. It's not ideal, I will admit, but they do have a lot of story they want to focus on, and they want it to focus around we the player, rather than the NPC cast.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Yes, I do, and I find your perspective strange. Though I find most people's perspective on this matter strange.

First of all, there are hardly ever personal losses for side character cast, but when there are... they really ham up the emotion. When Moenbryda died they had several quests dedicated to the Scions moping, notably, Urianger, Minfilia, and Yda. All of whom cried and lamented the loss of Moenbryda. Urianger is definitely NOT impervious to emotion. He's one of the most outwardly emotional Scions in the cast. Especially when he believes he's done wrong, even if said wrong was in the name of the greater good. I agree with this assessment for Y'shtola though.

As far as city-state leaders go, Nanamo gets a bigger focus because Ul'dah's government is the most corrupt, and she is the least competent leader we've got.

My suggestion to you would be to make sure you talk to the characters between quest advancement markers, as they have dialogue you can see nowhere else, which is where a lot of their fleshing out occurs. It's not ideal, I will admit, but they do have a lot of story they want to focus on, and they want it to focus around we the player, rather than the NPC cast.

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Perhaps that is why. I did not speak to them outside of the MSQ, and I'm sure many others haven't either. I am coming from a place where I compare them to the characters in our party in FF7 remake, for example(or plenty of other fictional works). Every single one of the cast was able to stir strong emotions within me. Yet with the Scions I have mostly felt little, if anything. Urianger's face was still stoic when Moenbryda, supposedly one of his closest friends, died, and I believe he said he was going to 'study, and mourn in his own way.' Yeah, that doesn't really tug on any of my heart strings. I contrast this with when Cloud had to watch certain people die who weren't even his closest friends. The pain and struggle that was written all over his face. It doesn't compare.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Perhaps that is why. I did not speak to them outside of the MSQ, and I'm sure many others haven't either. I am coming from a place where I compare them to the characters in our party in FF7 remake, for example(or plenty of other fictional works). Every single one of the cast was able to stir strong emotions within me. Yet with the Scions I have mostly felt little, if anything. Urianger's face was still stoic when Moenbryda, supposedly one of his closest friends, died, and I believe he said he was going to 'study, and mourn in his own way.' Yeah, that doesn't really tug on any of my heart strings. I contrast this with when Cloud had to watch certain people die who weren't even his closest friends. The pain and struggle that was written all over his face. It doesn't compare.

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Uhh, Urianger laments that Moenbryda went to her grave without knowing Louisoix's Will, and he beats himself up about it, which is go to coping method, to blame himself for the worst of what transpired. We tell him her last words were that she finally understood Louisoix. This makes him happy, but he gets sad again immediately, looking down and turning his head away from the camera, and due to his goggles and hood, we can't see if he cries or not. An easy out for the game devs at the time, honestly lazy, but he also says in a deeply sorrowful voice, "Oh Moenbryda... My dearest... how I shall miss thee." The line you reference comes after Minfilia resolves that they as a group should honor Moenbryda and not sulk. Basically it's Urianger saying that he's in so much pain that he'd rather grieve by himself.

As for a graphical and facial expression comparison, you're levying a 2020 game against a 2013 cutscene that's working off a reworked 2009~2010 engine. I'd compare whatever Cloud scene you're talking about more to a more recent Urianger emotional scene. Perhaps the one where he comforts Ryne just before the Ran'jit instanced battle where we control Thancred. You can hear the inner turmoil in his voice, and his face is quite a bit expressive too. And we can see that now, cause his goggles and hood aren't there, hah.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

After replaying through the story for a second time, I came to notice something about the story as a whole.

I won't deny that this is the best MMO story I have ever played, especially in Shadowbringers, but a certain aspect of it felt lacking. I then realized that for me, it is the characters.

Don't get me wrong, Emet-Selch certainly left a lasting impression on me, and I enjoyed Yotsuyu, Elidibus, Ardbert, and Crystal Exarch. Aside from this though, I realized I had no investment in any of the characters. I believe this is because the story always likes to focus on 'the greater good'. In telling their grand tale of nations and worlds, the relatability of the characters seems to be notably absent. With few exceptions, I see little in the way of internal struggles in the character cast.

I don't feel that they are affected when they incur losses, or at least it does not seem to be shown adequately. Urianger seems impervious to emotions, even when he loses those dear to him. I'd say the same of Y'sthola. Only reason I enjoy her at times is because of her sarcastic quips. I enjoyed the period of struggle with Thancred and Ryne, and wished there were more moments like that in the game. With the exception of a short period in the game with Nanamo, I felt no internal struggle in the alliance leaders as the plot moved forward.

I suppose that in summary, I do not feel this game focuses enough on what makes the characters tick, choosing to often favor the 'grand goal' instead. I am curious what the community thinks about this. Do you feel I am incorrect and that the characters receive enough detail as it is? Do you enjoy the character cast?

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I am a WoW refugee so it's easy for me to feel attached to the cast. Are they as complex as the cast of (most) single player Final Fantasies? Nah. Are they more engaging than the overwhelming majority of MMO casts? Yes!

I really love Emet-Selch, Ysayle, Estinien, Yotsuyu, Alphinaud and Haurchefant especially. (I used to like Thancred but his personality seems to change each expansion).

If the game has one major hole in its cast it's the Warrior of Light.

I wish we could select personalities for our WoL that changed some of their animations in cutscenes or had more options for choosing dialogue. Shadowbringers made the right move in making the WoL be in mortal peril for a while but other than that I felt like my character was a wooden board with no weakness.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

If the game has one major hole in its cast it's the Warrior of Light.

I wish we could select personalities for our WoL that changed some of their animations in cutscenes or had more options for choosing dialogue. Shadowbringers made the right move in making the WoL be in mortal peril for a while but other than that I felt like my character was a wooden board with no weakness.

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As for the wooden board, I can relate. I first played through FFXIV as a Lalafell. I think the cutscenes work far better as one, because Lalas are very expressive, and in cutscenes they come across as young and childlike and naive, so it sorta makes sense for other characters to talk down to me or order me around, or for Alphinaud/Alisae/Aymeric treating me as their best friend/equal. When I've played through the game as other races, I'm not as immersed, as the player is nowhere near as expressive, and things can get awkward when you have Alphinaud/Alisae/Aymeric treating you as your equal, when visually you might look like you're in your 40s or something, possibly old enough to be their dad. I'm going to change my main back to Lala before 5.4 hits; I look cool but it just doesn't work in the story.

As for selecting personalities, that could be interesting. In GW2 the player character has voice acted lines dialogue during the story, just like any of the other characters. The voice acting and the demeanor of the player character depends on their race/gender combination. So if the player is a male Charr, the player is a more brutish, straightforward "let's skip bureaucracy and just punch evil in the face" kind of guy. If you play a male Asura, then the player is more thoughtful, likes to take a moment to evaluate all of the options on the table before making a decision, not hastey. The characters in the story also react differently to you depending on your race, which was sometimes really cool. In GW2, the Sylvari race were created to be minions of the first expansion's big bad, Mordremoth, and he can try to brainwash Sylvari. So if you played one, then during that expansion you would hear Mordremoth whispering to you, trying to seduce you to his side (other races just heard incomprehensible roars), and other characters would be suspicious of you.

I'd imagine it would be very expensive for FFXIV to try to do the same, because the hundreds of hours of cutscenes (in GW2 there really aren't any cutscenes where your character is animated doing stuff, almost all of the story happens as NPCs talk in real time while you can still move around at will). So I'd imagine that if a game like FFXIV did it, they would probably do the GW2 thing where each race/gender combo has just the one voice actor and has just that one animation set.

For the most part I like how they've taken to doing deeper dives on the characters as the expansions go on. When playing through the ARR sections the Alliance leaders felt pretty meh, although the development for Raubahn and Nanamo has been fantastic through Heavensward and Stormblood. Unfortunately Merlwyb and Kan-e-Senna haven't gotten the same development which is a shame since, especially with Merlwyb, there's definitely opportunities. There were some nice almost there moment for her in the ARR patches, but as the action has moved further away from the main 3 city states the opportunity hasn't been there.

The Scions have definitely grown on me too, again going from 'meh' to looking forward to seeing them in the story. Papalymo was my fave in ARR just because he had so much personality between the lala emotes and his voice actor. It set him apart in my mind from the others who were more like fantasy trope archetypes to me. A lot of that is probably due to the writing team being able to take a breath and tell a story with more room for small character moments vs writing ARR where there needed to be a lot of narrative shorthand due to all the world building for people who didn't play 1.0.

It's been neat to see that development too. Seeing Alphinaud going from someone who was the worst "I'm the smartest person in the room" to a more measured diplomat was one of my favorite transformations. Same with Urianger who's a very nuanced characters in that his emotions come across in a much more nuanced way. Shadowbringers gave us a nice look at him feeling conflicted about not sharing some information, but at the same time there's no doubt that he's just as dedicated to the task at hand.

So it's definitely not the deepest narrative in a piece of media, but I think the writers have done a bang up job developing the characters who initially felt a bit one dimensional and then introducing characters like Emet Selch who feel more developed on arrival. When it's time to work with the Scions I look forward to seeing them again. I love being able to talk with Raubahn and the other Alliance leaders (although man, can we get Merlwyb's ARR VA back pleeease?), and I'm even looking forward to what they do with Zenos going forward. I didn't think that I'd like Emet Selch when he showed up in Stormblood, but man he made me love him in Shadowbringers, so I'm hopeful for Zenos to get interesting.

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Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

As for the wooden board, I can relate. I first played through FFXIV as a Lalafell. I think the cutscenes work far better as one, because Lalas are very expressive, and in cutscenes they come across as young and childlike and naive, so it sorta makes sense for other characters to talk down to me or order me around, or for Alphinaud/Alisae/Aymeric treating me as their best friend/equal. When I've played through the game as other races, I'm not as immersed, as the player is nowhere near as expressive, and things can get awkward when you have Alphinaud/Alisae/Aymeric treating you as your equal, when visually you might look like you're in your 40s or something, possibly old enough to be their dad. I'm going to change my main back to Lala before 5.4 hits; I look cool but it just doesn't work in the story.

As for selecting personalities, that could be interesting. In GW2 the player character has voice acted lines dialogue during the story, just like any of the other characters. The voice acting and the demeanor of the player character depends on their race/gender combination. So if the player is a male Charr, the player is a more brutish, straightforward "let's skip bureaucracy and just punch evil in the face" kind of guy. If you play a male Asura, then the player is more thoughtful, likes to take a moment to evaluate all of the options on the table before making a decision, not hastey. The characters in the story also react differently to you depending on your race, which was sometimes really cool. In GW2, the Sylvari race were created to be minions of the first expansion's big bad, Mordremoth, and he can try to brainwash Sylvari. So if you played one, then during that expansion you would hear Mordremoth whispering to you, trying to seduce you to his side (other races just heard incomprehensible roars), and other characters would be suspicious of you.

I'd imagine it would be very expensive for FFXIV to try to do the same, because the hundreds of hours of cutscenes (in GW2 there really aren't any cutscenes where your character is animated doing stuff, almost all of the story happens as NPCs talk in real time while you can still move around at will). So I'd imagine that if a game like FFXIV did it, they would probably do the GW2 thing where each race/gender combo has just the one voice actor and has just that one animation set.

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When I say personalities that change animations I mean they do that and only that. I don't think it would be hard to implement. Right now we respond in cutscenes with canned emotes. With a new "personality" some of these emotes would be swapped to different but also standard emotes.

For example a timid character may /aback where an aggressive character goes into a weapon ready stance. There are no changes in dialogue, no added voices, just emote swaps.