What's the fastest a boss model had been relegated to trash?

Alright the Dungeons and raids often debut models for new foes to fight, usually as bosses. But usually one expansion later (see: Wandil, Yeti, Belladonna, arguably Ymir, def Pepsiman, Kallya) or so the models became used for trash mobs in both dungeons and the overworld.

As such I want to ask what bosses (besides Spoken and Beastmen ones were) had the shortest period until having it model used on trash and if there were any cases wheret he boss models were used for trash in the same expansion, and which boss models that aren't NPCs yet haden't been used for overworld trash (Lightwardens/Sin Eaters being obvious).

Does Sastasha count? Pirates couerls and sahagin kind of right off the bat.

The final boss of totorak is a diremite.

If we don’t count mobs that were already trash mobs (like the mindflayers,pirates, sahaguin, etc) I would say some of the first were the mobs found in Labyrinth of the Ancients or Crystal Tower (notably the dragons, undead demonic dragon things and succubus types)

If we are strictly talking open world, obviously from Heavansward on, the open world uses boss models or at the very least reskinned versions a lot; many from previous expansions.

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Originally Posted by Sauteed

Does Sastasha count? Pirates couerls and sahagin kind of right off the bat.

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Probably, but the latter two are staples of a sort, I already disqualified Spoken and Beastmen (knocking out the former and the latter) and the level scale of ARR makes it rather wonky to work with.

that said I do want to give a shout out to Skalla's Dogu boss, the last trash mob before the final boss is s downsized version of the 2nd one lol.

That guy you fight in a full party trial before you do the Castrum & Praetorium back in Arr

I would also add how soon a unique model is reskinned/recycled. Often trial bosses are a thing with this (Sepphirot is essentially the mid boss thing in Mt. Gulg). Or how Castrum Abania’s XXIV (end boss) is essentially the same model as Frog Prince in Dohn Mheg.

Or Void Ark’s octopus demon being violet tide’s final boss..and also a certain rose bush Marlboro monster.

World of Darkness had bosses as trash mobs, in the same expansion cycle

Pretty much immediately we have the case of regular trash monsters merely being grown in size and given mechanics for dungeon bosses. Even ignoring beastmen, the first boss in Sastasha is a Coeurl. Pretty much all of ARR functions this way. There's the Fire Sprite boss in Halitali. Biast boss in Halitali. And Hapalit boss, again in Halitali. All are oversized trash monsters in the overworld. Thousand Maw of Toto-rak has Rafflesias for bosses and trash in the same dungeon, ending with an overgrown diremite. Haukke Manor uses Succubi, skeleton, and imp as bosses.

Brayflox Longstop -> Cockatrice/hammerbeak -> Drake + Biast -> Mudpuppy -> Dragon. All trash monsters later.

Sunken Temple of Qarn -> Tauri -> Golem -> Adjudicator -> Adjudicator is the third instance of a unique boss in the game, and the first in a dungeon. The first two are Ifrit and Titan.

Cutter's Cry -> Ant Boss and ants for trash before it -> Sandworm boss, already been trash in overworld -> Chimera (Becomes trash in alliance raid)

Stone Vigil -> Lesser Dragon (Trash by HW) -> Wyvern (Trash or adds several times in ARR) -> Ice Dragon (trash in raids/HW).

Dzemael Darkhold -> Ahriman (overgrown trash) -> Hapalit -> Gargoyle

Aurum Vale -> Rafflesia -> Cyclops -> Malboro = All trash

To answer the question as it is phrased though... hmm... a once unique boss model turned into trash... hmm... I guess I'd have to go with ADS from Binding Coil Turn 1 and Turn 2 becoming trash by Second Coil Turn 2 (Turn 7). That's within one raid tier of each other, and as for real time that passed between 2.0 launch and then, I think it was what, 6 or 7 months? Whenever 2.2 and Second Coil launched or whatever. It's hard to remember.

As for bosses that I've never seen as trash there are plenty, though some share the same monster family as trash monsters. ALso note, many have be reskinned or had their skeletons used for other bosses.

Tonberry King
Adjudicator
Viceregent to the Warden
Captain Madison (drowned)
Diabolos
Sawtooth and Irminsul
Echidna
Provenance Watcher
Deathgaze
Ferdiad
Scathach
Oppressor
Manipulator
Ratfinx Twinkledinks (Bugbear form)
Blaster, Swindler, Brawler, Vortexer, and Onslaughter (Named after the Combaticons, with Brute Justice being a play on Bruticus).
Refurbisher
Blassty
Alexander Prime
Twintania
Fenrir
Regula van Hydrus
Ultima Warrior
Motherbit
Behemoth
Livia sas Junius
Enkidu
Gilgamesh
Strix
Ozma
Caliofisteri
Calcabrina
Estinihogg
Edda Blackbosom
The Necromancer - Nybeth Obdilord
Ruby Princess
Shisui Yohi
Bardam (Golem)
Hypertuned Grynewaht
Number 24
Inferno
Aulus Mal Asina
Zenos
Coeurl Regina
Hrodric Poisontongue
Yojimbo
Tokkapchi
Alte-Roite
Catastrophe
Halicarnassus
Exdeath/Neo
Phantom Train
Chardarnook
Guardian
Kefka/God
Chaos
Omega - All versions

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I would also add how soon a unique model is reskinned/recycled. Often trial bosses are a thing with this (Sepphirot is essentially the mid boss thing in Mt. Gulg). Or how Castrum Abania’s XXIV (end boss) is essentially the same model as Frog Prince in Dohn Mheg.

Or Void Ark’s octopus demon being violet tide’s final boss..and also a certain rose bush Marlboro monster.

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You're talking about monster frames/skeletons, rather than the skin. If we go into that territory we'll stop pretty much immediately. They've been doing that since ARR, and they do it with gear too.

The quickest "new boss model to trash enemy" turnovers are actually in the Crystal Tower*. Archeron/Phlegeton the final boss of Labyrinth of the Ancient (2.1) appeared 2 patches later as the Archeron trash enemies in Syrcus Tower (2.3). The Syrcus Tower bosses Scylla, Glasya Labolas and Xande all reappear in World of Darkness (2.5) as trash enemies.

Giruveganaus, the Final Bosses of Stone Vigil (Hard) (2.3), takes a slightly longer time to reappear. They returned in 2.55's the Steps of Faith trial as one of the mini-boss adds.

*Discounting "new expansion" models which are often introduced as a leveling dungeon boss and then appear later levels as trash mobs.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

You're talking about monster frames/skeletons, rather than the skin. If we go into that territory we'll stop pretty much immediately. They've been doing that since ARR, and they do it with gear too.

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Oh absolutely; the last time this kind of topic came up and I said “same skeletons” the reply I got was “ah mah god you know the mobs don’t have actual skeletons right!?!?” ... so.. I opted for reskin, although technically that is incorrect.

In response/question to the OP, do you want to say mobs that were exclusively boss type mobs eventually being turned into trash? And not trash mobs that upgrade into bosses? Also, should we ignore dungeons and only consider open world as general trash?

This kind of implies the boss need be introduced before the trash version, with a patch or expansion between them.

I was kinda going at this as “mobs that were exclusively used as a boss until recycled for general use”


So,
- we wouldn’t count things like the Courel in Sastasha because it already is a trash mob
- Xande existing in world of darkness could be ignored as it’s not in open world depending on your criteria

But this is your thread, so your rules :)

The fastest case of this may be, as mentioned earlier in the thread, seen in The Drowned City of Skalla, with "The Old One" (Second boss) being seen again in the final pull of the dungeon as a smaller (and much weaker) trash mob called "Accursed Idol". Same exact model and colors, just scaled down.

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

The fastest case of this may be, as mentioned earlier in the thread, seen in The Drowned City of Skalla, with "The Old One" (Second boss) being seen again in the final pull of the dungeon as a smaller (and much weaker) trash mob called "Accursed Idol". Same exact model and colors, just scaled down.

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Oh thats terrible LOL

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

The fastest case of this may be, as mentioned earlier in the thread, seen in The Drowned City of Skalla, with "The Old One" (Second boss) being seen again in the final pull of the dungeon as a smaller (and much weaker) trash mob called "Accursed Idol". Same exact model and colors, just scaled down.

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In Castrum Abania, the first boss is a Magna Roader, a reference to FF6. Between the first and second boss you fight smaller, red versions of it, named "12th Legion Roader." Also a reference to FF6.

Omega is literally a frog.

Though lore wise, it should be noted that a lot of them are literally strong individuals of a specific type of kin. Escaped experiments, lost beasts, and you- an Adventurer, are still weak at the time and something that's a massive issue elsewhere is still a problem for you.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

In response/question to the OP, do you want to say mobs that were exclusively boss type mobs eventually being turned into trash? And not trash mobs that upgrade into bosses? Also, should we ignore dungeons and only consider open world as general trash?

This kind of implies the boss need be introduced before the trash version, with a patch or expansion between them.

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The former was what I intended to say when I made the post (also for clairty's sake I was referring to the models themselves,not the skeletons). I wouldn't ignore dungeons outright but it might be wise to mention those on a separate list.

On that note I'm also of the opinion that there is a hierarchy of sorts that makes a boss model's turnover slow at times. Some might be made overworld trash instantly, others might be used for hunt Marks first before becoming trash and I also think Dungeion trash takes precedence over Overworld trash in this hierarchy because there are always a set amount of such trash per instance compared to overworld trash which are infinite. Were Ito hazard a guess it might be something like Raid Boss>Dungeon Boss>Adds that appear during Boss>Dungeon Trash>Hunt Mark>Overworld Trash

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Originally Posted by kaynide

So,
- we wouldn’t count things like the Courel in Sastasha because it already is a trash mob
- Xande existing in world of darkness could be ignored as it’s not in open world depending on your criteria

But this is your thread, so your rules :)

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The first is accurate, as for the second, that could be argue on a case by case basis (if only because the WoD trash fights could be seen as minibosses), though it worth noting that Xande's model was also used for a Heaven on High boss IIRC.