Crazy Idea: Alteration Materia

Thats right... Materia that changes the look, name and stats of a piece of gear

Walk with me, Talk with me.....
Imagine Ifrit didn't drop Ifrit's Battleaxe

So how does Mr. Starting Marauder get the best weapon for his class/job?

Well at Lvl 48, you go buy some Cobalt, Jadeite, etc. and get someone to make you a Demilune Bhuj and continue leveling to 50.

At which point, you camp the Great Buffalo until you get a Bloody Bardiche head (Or just buy one). With head in hand (hehe) you go back to your buddy and get a Barbarian's Bardiche made... nice.... nothing new (this is in game now)... but grats...

Now for the interesting part.... You take your Bardiche into a Darkhold run and kill Batraal until you get his special "Void Catalyst" (Could be Unique/untradeable or not, doesn't really matter, plus there are already 80 threads regarding U/U so not really a discussion for this thread)

Now with Barbarian's Bardiche and Void Catalyst in hand.... You take on Ifrit... and instead of Ifrit's Battleaxe, you are looking for Ifrit's Materia

Ifrit's Materia is a special alteration materia that turns the Barbarian's Bardiche (Unmelded, of course) into the Ifrit's Battleaxe using the Void Catalyst. Ifrit's materia is obviously u/u, but fortunately, first melds can be done via bazaar, so "yay" for that.

In the example above... Ifrit could drop universal Ifrit Materia (i.e. Ifrit's Alteration Materia) or specific materia for each weapon (i.e. Ifrit's Battleaxe Materia), and would obviously only work on one specific weapon

I know, Ifrit drops the Ifrit's battleaxe, and thats not going to change... And I know the current content might not even be around in 2.0, what I was doing though, is using this example to illustrate the point. A new player needs a crafter AND has to do the Great Buffalo (Just buy him dinner first), Darkhold and Ifrit to get the best weapon. Old content meets new content, U/U meets crafted... Materia meets Primals... All beautifully working together.....

Say there are 20 separate pieces of content at 2.0 (I am obviously just pulling that number out of my ass... but hear me out), I want to have to do ALL of it to assemble the best gear (Weapons, armor, Accessories) ... and if they add new content 6 months later... someone who starts then should have to do the 20 pieces of content and whatever new thing is added to get a complete set of the best gear

I know, I know... Another way to keep old content relevant is to have each challenge drop gear that is needed to win the next challenge, so your gears gets progressively better as does the difficulty of the content. This is how it is done in pretty much every game.. and it works... but that doesn't mean it has to be done exactly that way every time. FFXIV could put a unique spin on it...

What if all 20 of the new content is needed to assemble a full set of Uber gear and that gear is very much needed to tackle, say, the Crystal Tower....

It would definitely keep people busy past the free month

I know some of you will hate this idea... that's fine... no love lost
Some of you will say "SE will never add this," which is also fine....
I'm sure whatever they have planned will be fun and challenging...
A little "What if" never hurt though

tl:dr Many U/U pieces could instead be U/U Alteration materia that is melded via bazaar and alters the look, stats and name of an unmelded crafted piece of gear.... so that crafters and U/U can all work together!!!!

As a crafter I refuse to work with my pawns!
I rather it be trade able but only crafters being able to obtain them.
I sell for 2millions, and you sit there and take it.

But seriously, sounds good if not a tad bit complicated. xD

Honestly it sounds like you would be better off fighting Ifrit then going through that concept lol. It may sounds interesting on paper but the process to achieve the point seems a tad to complex. Having to obtain 3 things then ifrit's materia, would the materia be a drop rate in the same sense as the vampire cutting, dark matter, totems and weapons? If it's not 100% drop then it's just not worth the time to go through this process, you can easily run 3-4 Ifrits an hour with a good group rather then go through the process of going through other content just to obtain another new drop added to Ifrit.

The idea though sounds like what they want to do with legendary weapons. In the sense that the weapons model will transform if the stats fit the required stats for the legendary status lol.

I think this is a good idea, but may want to have them create weapons other than instanced ones that already exist.

This could be a questing side event whereby you upgrade stuff through morphing it via materia. Once it has the materia on it, it could change when its spritibond fills, and maybe have a specific path of materias to upgrade and slowly create better and better weapons. (with the final tier being oh my goodness, since it would take time)

--> quest for a beginning weapon, do the event that drops the materia, acquire and have someone meld, play with it until morph, then get the next materia that it goes with

just another idea to flesh it out

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Originally Posted by Airget

Honestly it sounds like you would be better off fighting Ifrit then going through that concept lol. It may sounds interesting on paper but the process to achieve the point seems a tad to complex. Having to obtain 3 things then ifrit's materia, would the materia be a drop rate in the same sense as the vampire cutting, dark matter, totems and weapons? If it's not 100% drop then it's just not worth the time to go through this process, you can easily run 3-4 Ifrits an hour with a good group rather then go through the process of going through other content just to obtain another new drop added to Ifrit.

The idea though sounds like what they want to do with legendary weapons. In the sense that the weapons model will transform if the stats fit the required stats for the legendary status lol.

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I think maybe it sounds complicated because I like to talk to much.....

Essentially, what it boils down to, Instead of getting Ifrits battleaxe, Go get a Barbarian's Bardiche and Ifrit drops materia that turns it into Ifrit's Battleaxe....
It was just an example though... I am not suggesting Ifrit be changed... I'm just saying I'd like it if future content worked like this.... I wouldn't expect any current content be changed this drastically....

I just used Ifrit to illustrate how Materia could be used to "Upgrade" weapons and gear to keep older content useful

Its not that foreign a concept

3 items (Base Weapon, catalyst, Materia) needed to create a brand new weapon.... thats kind of how crafting is now....
In fact, that is EXACTLY what crafting is now... and it is admittedly complex... but thats the crafting/materia system we've all come to know and love/hate

The best gear should always require a serious ordeal before it is obtained

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Originally Posted by Volsung

I think this is a good idea, but may want to have them create weapons other than instanced ones that already exist.

This could be a questing side event whereby you upgrade stuff through morphing it via materia. Once it has the materia on it, it could change when its spritibond fills, and maybe have a specific path of materias to upgrade and slowly create better and better weapons. (with the final tier being oh my goodness, since it would take time)

--> quest for a beginning weapon, do the event that drops the materia, acquire and have someone meld, play with it until morph, then get the next materia that it goes with

just another idea to flesh it out

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I agree completely... maybe I shouldn't have used Ifrit as an example... I am not asking that they change it... it was just an example to show what I meant.... I KNOW for a fact, the current content would never be changed that much..... I meant this system for future content... just using Ifrit since everyone is already familiar with it

actually in all honesty, i see a million ways they could use materia beyond the current iteration

special season event materia

rare materia that tends to bind more tightly to things that don't normally carry materia (accessories)

materia with uncommon stats from events

materia used in quests, for example our first lvl cap raise quest could be a certain old man that states "young lad I'm in need of a favor, if you do this I'll teach you the beginnings to pushing your body further. All you need to do is have someone meld this here speical materia onto this low level weapon im giving you, then build the spirit bond full, and the knowledge shall be yours!"

perfect combinations, of materia that we stumble upon that further enhance gear, that SE keeps secret

Tansforming gear like you said

special effect over time materia

materia that enhances members of your party

etc, its kinda boundless, just takes a lil thought

I agree with alteration materia (and it's been suggested before under different names). All these stupid dungeons that drop ready made gear should drop materia or materials instead so crafters remain relevant in endgame.

It's an ok concept, but if you're going to force people to go and do EVERY type of endgame currently available (Ok... well you didn't have them need something out of a stronghold coffer), it should probably be better than an Ifrit weapon.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

It's an ok concept, but if you're going to force people to go and do EVERY type of endgame currently available (Ok... well you didn't have them need something out of a stronghold coffer), it should probably be better than an Ifrit weapon.

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I know... I was just using that as an example

You guys want more examples?

Any unmelded piece of the cobalt plate set (Cobalt Celata, Cuirass, Gauntlets, Sabatons, Plate Belt)
plus "Reinforced alteration materia" from killing the Iron Giant NM
using the "Scorching Forge catalyst" obtained from Ruby Dragon
will get you the corresponding piece of the Fortified Plate set (Fortified Celata, Cuirass, Gauntlets, Sabatons, Plate Belt) with better stats

The Cobalt-plated caligae
Plus the "Ancient Prayer Materia" from an Ancient Undead Monk NM
Using the "Spiritual Release catalyst" obtained from a dungeon of some holy temple ruins
will get you the "Ancient Caligae." Not only does it have better stats, but when you use "Spinning Heel" to add kicks to your auto-attack, the kick portion of the auto-attack does 50% more damage

The Felt Hat of Intelligence
Plus the "Aetherial Surge Materia" from an underground labyrinth with an aetherial river flowing through it
Using "Stolen Sorcery Catalyst" from a special Mimic NM that takes the form of an Aetherial Node (That has a chance of replacing any random node in a particular zone if certain conditions are met)
will get you the epic "Aetherial Headdress."

Mosshorn Scale Mail
Plus the "Rock hard materia" from Adamantoise at the end of a dungeon buried deep underground, hidden by cave ins and rock slides
Using the "Soulless Rebirth Catalyst" from Dark Phoenix NM
You'll get the "Impenetrable Scale Mail," which has improved stats and uses your STR stat to boost your defense.

I could go on all day with this

The work it requires to collect all that stuff, (remember the drop rates in this game) would be probably more work than spamming Ifrit.

Granted the other content allows the distribution of loot which would make it easier but I just feel it would be better if SE fixed Primal loot.

I know this thread is more about crafting and making them feel unique and wanted but screw em, I don't think an MMO should be so centralised around crafting at end game.

What you are suggesting in the above post is kind of similar to what Vindictus has, you go get rare drops from bosses and then get the items made by NPC's (although in this case its crafters)

I don't mind that at all, but the dev team should have stuck with the system they had with previous lvl 60 NM's.

Sounds like a very Monster Hunter-esq gear progression system to me, and let me tell you, I absolutely love MH's style of gear progression; Get gear, get boss and enemy drops to upgrade gear, and said gear has multiple "paths" in which you can upgrade it, ending in a variety of different types of equipment. It keeps old content relevant, requires multiple types of content to fully utilize, and allows for quite a bit of customization.

Sadly, I highly doubt they would consider such a style of progression

I like the idea of changing the lootables from encounters such as Ifrit. Things that seem more natural and allow the crafters to have a bigger hand in the pie (I think this is really the essence of your suggestion, correct me if I'm wrong :)). I would go for a different implementation, however. I cannot take credit for the idea, as it has been stated by a lot of people on the forums and in-game. Even since I heard it, though, I have been in love...

Ifrit should drop craftables! He should be dropping Ifrit's Horn or Ifrit's Claw, things that make sense for him to drop. Not just popping out ready-made weapons (what the...where did this come from!?). They could be used in recipes to make unique high-level gear. Ifrit's Battleaxe may be one of them, but there should be other stuff too. What about a fire-resistant Ifrit's Breastplate? I will not go into a ton of detail here, but you guys get the idea.

Apply this formula to Primals and also world NMs, and I think it would be WINNING.

I think ifrit dropping materia instead of weapons would be a great idea on account that blacksmiths are useless at endgame right now.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

The work it requires to collect all that stuff, (remember the drop rates in this game) would be probably more work than spamming Ifrit.

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I can only speak for myself (and my friends in voice chat)... i can't really speak for everyone... but for us, it's not the amount of work required that is killing us...
It's working at the same 10 minutes of content (For Primals) or working at the same 25 minutes of content (For Dungeons) over and over and over and over to get what you want....

If it took 25 hours to get a piece of gear (Just a random number...), I'd rather not spend the entire 25 hours repeating the same 10 minutes of content
Splitting it up would mean that it can still take 25 hours, but now its a few hours doing this, a few hours doing that. It would make things feel so much less repetitive for me

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Originally Posted by Jocko

Sounds like a very Monster Hunter-esq gear progression system to me, and let me tell you, I absolutely love MH's style of gear progression; Get gear, get boss and enemy drops to upgrade gear, and said gear has multiple "paths" in which you can upgrade it, ending in a variety of different types of equipment. It keeps old content relevant, requires multiple types of content to fully utilize, and allows for quite a bit of customization.

Sadly, I highly doubt they would consider such a style of progression

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I love Monster Hunter... I still play MH Tri on Dolphin
I just feel like where we're headed... New players will PL to 50 and only get the gear from the latest piece of endgame and ignore the rest... be done well within 30 days and never really subscribe to the game

There IS a chance SE wont do anything even remotely like this... but with Materia meld request being added to the bazaar... it is actually possible now... Which is a step in the right direction

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Originally Posted by Wincy

I like the idea of changing the lootables from encounters such as Ifrit. Things that seem more natural and allow the crafters to have a bigger hand in the pie (I think this is really the essence of your suggestion, correct me if I'm wrong :)). I would go for a different implementation, however. I cannot take credit for the idea, as it has been stated by a lot of people on the forums and in-game. Even since I heard it, though, I have been in love...

Ifrit should drop craftables! He should be dropping Ifrit's Horn or Ifrit's Claw, things that make sense for him to drop. Not just popping out ready-made weapons (what the...where did this come from!?). They could be used in recipes to make unique high-level gear. Ifrit's Battleaxe may be one of them, but there should be other stuff too. What about a fire-resistant Ifrit's Breastplate? I will not go into a ton of detail here, but you guys get the idea.

Apply this formula to Primals and also world NMs, and I think it would be WINNING.

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You're right... it is a compromise from crafted stuff and U/U stuff....

Its an old argument though... I have friends who love U/U gear because it means you had to be there and you really beat it... not just leveled a craft and made a bunch of money and bought the gear... But you actually did the content

And then I have friends who hate U/U because they want to be able to sell the Uber Gear right away for ridiculous amounts of gil when very few people have the means to obtain it (Although, honestly, being obsessed with amassing large quantities of virtual currency is kind of funny)

And then I have friends who hate U/U because it directly competes with the crafters...

The reason I suggested Materia over Ifrit dropping actual crafted items is because crafted items would have to be completely tradeable... and the resulting weapons would have to be tradeable... and Yoshi P seems to not want to go that route. He seems to like the uber gear to be Unique/untradeable... and since you'll be able to meld from bazaar... U/U materia (And maybe U/U catalyst) is now possible

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Originally Posted by Majidah

I think ifrit dropping materia instead of weapons would be a great idea on account that blacksmiths are useless at endgame right now.

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I only use my blacksmith to repair the other tools that are actually useful like Goldsmith... So I agree

the only thing is I definitely don't see Ifrit changing.... He is implemented... Nothing will change... I was just using Ifrit as an example of what I would like to see from future content

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I know... I was just using that as an example

You guys want more examples?

Any unmelded piece of the cobalt plate set (Cobalt Celata, Cuirass, Gauntlets, Sabatons, Plate Belt)
plus "Reinforced alteration materia" from killing the Iron Giant NM
using the "Scorching Forge catalyst" obtained from Ruby Dragon
will get you the corresponding piece of the Fortified Plate set (Fortified Celata, Cuirass, Gauntlets, Sabatons, Plate Belt) with better stats

The Cobalt-plated caligae
Plus the "Ancient Prayer Materia" from an Ancient Undead Monk NM
Using the "Spiritual Release catalyst" obtained from a dungeon of some holy temple ruins
will get you the "Ancient Caligae." Not only does it have better stats, but when you use "Spinning Heel" to add kicks to your auto-attack, the kick portion of the auto-attack does 50% more damage

The Felt Hat of Intelligence
Plus the "Aetherial Surge Materia" from an underground labyrinth with an aetherial river flowing through it
Using "Stolen Sorcery Catalyst" from a special Mimic NM that takes the form of an Aetherial Node (That has a chance of replacing any random node in a particular zone if certain conditions are met)
will get you the epic "Aetherial Headdress."

Mosshorn Scale Mail
Plus the "Rock hard materia" from Adamantoise at the end of a dungeon buried deep underground, hidden by cave ins and rock slides
Using the "Soulless Rebirth Catalyst" from Dark Phoenix NM
You'll get the "Impenetrable Scale Mail," which has improved stats and uses your STR stat to boost your defense.

I could go on all day with this

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Anyone else have any ideas for new Gear/Alteration materia/catalyst combinations?

I don't think it should be so specific because it would just get confusing. You should be able to convert any old weapon into the 'alterated' weapon. I mean, it's basically tantamount to getting a weapon drop but with an extra process that involves crafters. Thats how i see it.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

I don't think it should be so specific because it would just get confusing. You should be able to convert any old weapon into the 'alterated' weapon. I mean, it's basically tantamount to getting a weapon drop but with an extra process that involves crafters. Thats how i see it.

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yes.. that is essentially what it is... Compromise between Crafted and U/U but also a way to keep old content alive
Company seals just doesn't really cut it as a good excuse
Making it specific to each weapon just means we have a lot to keep track of and SE has a lot to add... but I kind of like that
People are always going to choose the path of least resistance... If both the Bhuj and Bardiche are both capable of becoming the best axe... but the Bardiche requires killing the buffalo.. then people will ONLY be getting the Bhuj...

Making it specific to weapons also gives SE the ability to control how difficult the item is to get

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Anyone else have any ideas for new Gear/Alteration materia/catalyst combinations?

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Thormoen's Subligar
Plus one extra strong Qurin shoe lace.
Using the sexy shmexy magical Catalyst from Shiva
You'll get the Magical Girls Thong

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Thormoen's Subligar
Plus one extra strong Qurin shoe lace.
Using the sexy shmexy magical Catalyst from Shiva
You'll get the Magical Girls Thong

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Do you think this game will ever have gear that is only equipable by one gender or the other....
Or gear that is only for 1 race?

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Do you think this game will ever have gear that is only equipable by one gender or the other....
Or gear that is only for 1 race?

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I hope so they have suggested that in 2.0 starting races will have different gear.

The idea of ifrit dropping a materia to change any weapon into an ifrit weapon would solve the problem of ppl getting a cudgel when they wanted the bow or ppl getting dupes. You just get the materia and do whatever you want with it for any weapon.

Rare Materia kind of stuff?

HNM Materia - Lv40+ - Some stats + different varieties

Ifrit Materia (Fighter) - Lv45+ - Attack Power +30 - Chance to Inflict Fire Damage
Ifrit Materia (Sorcerer) - Lv45+ - Attack Magic Potency +30 - Chance to Inflict Fire Damage
Mog Materia (Fighter) - Lv45+ - Chance to Restore HP - Accuracy +30 - Crit Rate +15
Mog Materia (Sorcerer) - Lv45+ - Chance to Restore MP - Magic Accuracy +30 - Magic Crit Rate +15

Unlike primal weapons you can try to double/triple++ meld on top so it's better weapon if you think about it but it's a lot more rare than weapon drops or made at really really low chance from Ifrit/Mog weapons spirit bonding.

Something like that would be interesting, for those who get the materia only when they wanted the weapon they can attach to try and get near same effect while other hardcore (crazy) people can try to do something nuts and blow up... i mean double meld...

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Rare Materia kind of stuff?

HNM Materia - Lv40+ - Some stats + different varieties

Ifrit Materia (Fighter) - Lv45+ - Attack Power +30 - Chance to Inflict Fire Damage
Ifrit Materia (Sorcerer) - Lv45+ - Attack Magic Potency +30 - Chance to Inflict Fire Damage
Mog Materia (Fighter) - Lv45+ - Chance to Restore HP - Accuracy +30 - Crit Rate +15
Mog Materia (Sorcerer) - Lv45+ - Chance to Restore MP - Magic Accuracy +30 - Magic Crit Rate +15

Unlike primal weapons you can try to double/triple++ meld on top so it's better weapon if you think about it but it's a lot more rare than weapon drops or made at really really low chance from Ifrit/Mog weapons spirit bonding.

Something like that would be interesting, for those who get the materia only when they wanted the weapon they can attach to try and get near same effect while other hardcore (crazy) people can try to do something nuts and blow up... i mean double meld...

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I WOULD like the materia to change the look of the weapon though... Thats why I suggested alteration Materia

I do not like the idea of making weapons that aren't <insert U/U weapon here> look like said weapon. If you want that weapon, get that weapon. Crafted weapons and dropped weapons are and should remain different.

An upgrade tree, on the other hand, isn't as bad of an idea. However, it works better when upgrading items is the only form of progression (e.g. in monster hunter where you don't have levels and all of your stats come from equipment)

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I do not like the idea of making weapons that aren't <insert U/U weapon here> look like said weapon. If you want that weapon, get that weapon. Crafted weapons and dropped weapons are and should remain different.

An upgrade tree, on the other hand, isn't as bad of an idea. However, it works better when upgrading items is the only form of progression (e.g. in monster hunter where you don't have levels and all of your stats come from equipment)

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I know... but what I am saying is... what if they release Shiva and Titan.. and there are no Shiva or Titan weapons...

Instead there is Shiva Alteration Materia... which would turn an Aeolian Scimitar into Shiva's Sword
And Titan's Alteration Materia would turn the Cobalt Winglet into a sword called Titan's Force

That would be silly. You should just have weapons drop from those monsters, as well as separate synthesis materials to create crafted gear. Also, monsters don't drop materia. You get them by destroying items.

Materia should remain with their current purpose- to add additional stats of your choice to an item.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I do not like the idea of making weapons that aren't <insert U/U weapon here> look like said weapon. If you want that weapon, get that weapon.

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Until said weapon becomes outdated and then you never see it again. Wanting to put the game's artwork to use is a good thing.

That being said, the OP could have just said "I want visual alterations/costume slots/transmogrification" and would have accomplished the same. Either way, Like'd the OP.

Wasting a materia slot on a cosmetic change is just as silly. No like from me.

Nothing's stopping you from wearing the old weapon for looks if you just want to look cool. When you do something serious, just put your real gear back on.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Wasting a materia slot on a cosmetic change is just as silly. No like from me.

Nothing's stopping you from wearing the old weapon for looks if you just want to look cool. When you do something serious, just put your real gear back on.

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I personally would not want it to use up a materia slot, unless these visual alteration materia have their own slots outside of the current system.

Well there could be a separate slot for alteration/graphic change which doesn't interfere with the regular 5 slot imo.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Wasting a materia slot on a cosmetic change is just as silly. No like from me.

Nothing's stopping you from wearing the old weapon for looks if you just want to look cool. When you do something serious, just put your real gear back on.

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Its not just a visual change... it changes the entire weapon... The stats.. name AND look all become "Shiva's Blade" or whatever...
And it doesn't "Waste" a slot because the primal weapons don't have slots to begin with... so more than likely the new weapon would be unmeldable after the alteration materia

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

That would be silly. You should just have weapons drop from those monsters, as well as separate synthesis materials to create crafted gear. Also, monsters don't drop materia. You get them by destroying items.

Materia should remain with their current purpose- to add additional stats of your choice to an item.

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The idea that monsters don't drop materia so they should NEVER drop materia is kind of close minded

I think you guys are missing the potential here.

People are always complaining that the ifrit drop rate sucks. Seriously this would fix that. The drop rate on the materia would still suck, but once you got it, you could just make the ifrit weapon of your choice. It would need to be "Ifrit's Materia", meldable to any type of weapon. (Not "Ifrit's Battleaxe materia", "Ifrit's Bow materia", otherwise we're back to the crappy getting what we don't want thing)

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Originally Posted by Deltara

I think you guys are missing the potential here.

People are always complaining that the ifrit drop rate sucks. Seriously this would fix that. The drop rate on the materia would still suck, but once you got it, you could just make the ifrit weapon of your choice. It would need to be "Ifrit's Materia", meldable to any type of weapon. (Not "Ifrit's Battleaxe materia", "Ifrit's Bow materia", otherwise we're back to the crappy getting what we don't want thing)

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Very good point....