What is the nature of the current endgame's White Mage offensive spells?

This is regarding Dia, Glare, and Afflatus Misery spells, which deal unaspected damage, as per their descriptions.This is mostly for roleplaying purposes but I'm curious to see if there's established lore on it.

Their animations involve a lot of pretty lights but I can't ascertain the nature of their damage. Although this is magic we're talking about, the nature of the damage sustained is often pretty intuitive/self-evident when it comes to other spells. For example, when a spell is very clearly a fire spell, you can be very sure it's going to burn something. When it's an earth-based spell and you're flinging rocks at people, you could be causing trauma due to impact. An aero spell could be seen as compressed air bursts that cause lacerations or some such high-flow injury.

Dia, glare, etc...-type of spells, though? Are not so clear to me, so I wonder. Is there something in the lore that explains how exactly they damage the target? As far back as 2.0, there were times when certain skills were woven into the class and/or job quests, which was pretty neat because they often hinted (if not outright mentioned) what the skill did. Nowadays, the devs don't integrate skills quite as much, if at all, due to the fact that some skills are simply just... rotated out. This is an understandable situation. I wish it weren't so, but I get it.

They're light elemental. Remember, there are 8 elements in this game, Fire, Ice, Lightning, Water, Earth, Wind, Darkness, and Light. in terms of how they damage the target, I would assume they cause an element overload of the enemy's aether. Too much of any kind of element can mess things up good.

Light and Dark aren't elements, though - they're aspects or charges that can be applied to elemental aether.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Light and Dark aren't elements, though - they're aspects or charges that can be applied to elemental aether.

---

I thought that was Umbral and Astral, which were different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I thought that was Umbral and Astral, which were different.

---

They're different terms for the same thing: the active and passive charges that elements can have.

The Source uses the term "astral" for the active state and "umbral" for the passive.

The First uses "dark" for active and "light" for passive. (I can't remember if they get capitals for this precise use.)

It seems to be coincidental that the charges actually are represented by primordial Dark and Light forces.

Holy is described as just being an concentrated explosion of aether in the lorebook, so you don't necessarily need an elemental aspect attached to something for it to be harmful; presumably just a high enough density of aether.

Interesting.

What does an explosion of aether do to the body? Does it deform it? Does it rearrange the body's own aether?

Considering that we've seen unaspected spells like Ruin bowl people over in cutscenes, I'd assume that they can generate physical force akin to a more conventional explosion..

Ah.

That sounds like the target might experience something akin to a blast injury, the effect of over-pressurization waves with body surfaces. In that case... The affected structures would most likely be gas-filled structures: lungs, GI tract, middle ear, etc... Might see pulmonary barotrauma, tympanic membrane rupture and middle ear damage, abdominal hemorrhage and perforation, eye rupture... Maybe even a concussion.

If that's how it works, of course.

There is also damage to ones aether to consider. Even if there is no physical side effect from the magic, the damage it deals to your aether would have much the same effect as a physical one.

"Aether sickness" is a specific thing as well - our early blackouts due to the Echo get mistaken for it, and we use it deliberately against Fordola to disorient her and jam her Resonant abilities.

I guess let's look at some of the older, "Unaspected" spells. By unaspected, they just mean no elemental affinity.


Back in days of yore, Ruin II was an upgrade over Ruin I by both being instant cast, but also by inflicting the Blind status ailment. This was often overlooked because bosses resist status ailments, for the most part. There was also Scathe, from BLM, which is a word that means, "To harm by scorching(to shrivel with heat)."

There were also Bio and Miasma, which iirc, were said to work to deteriorate and breakdown the target's aetherial form, such that their body would die. It's been a very long time since I did the ACN questline though.

Next there was Shadowflare (R.I.P.), and it was a field AOE where all monsters inside of it were inflicted with 5% Slow and took 20 potency per tic of unaspected damage. Basically it was a dark puddle of tempetuous aether, again wreaking havoc upon the aetherial form of those that entered.

Beyond that was Holy, unaspected damage of so many varying potencies and deteriorations across targets that I can't remember them all. Additional affect Stun remains with it to this day though. Basically, it's an aetherial explosion that has such high physical force that it causes complete immobilization(stops all action). Other affects in the game that cause stun are techniques which require an undue amount of force in a certain way, such as toppling an opponent with Leg Sweep or throwing an opponent off balance completely with a whole body slam that was Steel Peak (R.I.P.). It's unclear whether or not the force from Holy is solely physical, but the damage portion of it is magical, so it's still doing damage to the aetherial form while immobilizing the physical.

Compare these to Glare, a very harsh or dazzling light. It inflicts no status ailment, but it has the highest potency of the healer standard damage spells. Very harsh light could be construed to be in line with a laser, and a laser is a monochromatic, focused beam of light that excites atoms to such a high energy level that they radiate their energy in phase. Basically, Glare is causing damage to both the physical and the aetherial forms, but to the physical it is exciting the atoms to the point that they disperse radiation, causing radiation burns.

Now, following that line of thought, let's look at Dia. Dia, 120 potency unaspected damage, with a damage over time effect of 60 per tic(720 total). Following that it is similar in animation to Glare, with the sort of light we see, what it's doing is causing the atoms to come apart at the nuclear level, ricocheting neutrons and protons throughout the body. It's basically low level controlled radiation. Since the particles of a body aren't inherently radioactive, beyond what they absorb from background, only the atoms hit by the spell are directly excited and affected, though they damage the DNA and physical make-up of the other parts of the body.

TL; DR It's my opinion that the, "pure light" spells are akin to electromagnetic radiation. Basically a magically induced insane burst of ultraviolet, but there's no atmosphere or other similar shield to stop it from hurting the target. They cause damage to both the physical and aetherial, and they cause physical body death by breaking the body down at its constituent subatomic particles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Beyond that was Holy, unaspected damage of so many varying potencies and deteriorations across targets that I can't remember them all. Additional affect Stun remains with it to this day though. Basically, it's an aetherial explosion that has such high physical force that it causes complete immobilization(stops all action). Other affects in the game that cause stun are techniques which require an undue amount of force in a certain way, such as toppling an opponent with Leg Sweep or throwing an opponent off balance completely with a whole body slam that was Steel Peak (R.I.P.). It's unclear whether or not the force from Holy is solely physical, but the damage portion of it is magical, so it's still doing damage to the aetherial form while immobilizing the physical.

---

Hang on, we're talking Light-charged aether here, right?

Light-Umbral-passive, the same aspect that - at a certain dose - causes death by halting people's aether?

I think I see what's going on here...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Hang on, we're talking Light-charged aether here, right?

Light-Umbral-passive, the same aspect that - at a certain dose - causes death by halting people's aether?

I think I see what's going on here...

---

It's a good counterpart to BLM, and helps show why the elementals flooded the world to stop the War of the Magi. Imagine those being used on a global scale...it's far too dangerous to the world's aether.

Today I got to the role quests again in Shadowbringers, and Giott claiming to have broken ribs and a broken femur instantly knitted back together and be better off than they were before... I try to imagine just how healing magic works to heal things. The reassembly of any portion of the body. It doesn't work on serious illnesses though...

Then I thought about Y'shtola's first brush with direct Lifestream exposure, and why it bothered me that she was able to be completely physically reconstituted, except for functioning eyes.

I thought about how the early Stone spells conjure stones from nowhere. Wind from nowhere. I thought about how the fundamental elements for Conjurerers are stone, wind, and water... solids, gases, and liquids.

It seems to me that healers in FFXIV's world control the state of matter down to the atomic bonds. It's used to greatest effect with healing, and their DPS spells up until this point used the crude, macro level of the states of matter, rather than altering the matter itself. So rather than Stone Mastery IV, it's more like, Matter Mastery IV.

Healers are frightening and beautiful on so many levels.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

It's a good counterpart to BLM, and helps show why the elementals flooded the world to stop the War of the Magi. Imagine those being used on a global scale...it's far too dangerous to the world's aether.

---

First off that flood was a consequence of the war of the magi + some ascian involvement w/e. Second to the topic on hand i agree these spells are of light in nature. Previous installments had white mage use stone, aero and that one water spell,as opposed to blm using thunder blizzard and fire. It would seem too me unless i am putting too much thought into it with glare, dia, and holy but that last one has been around forever, these spells are of amdapori or sineater in origin at least more than the earlier nature spells. The question becomes off topic a little will fire thunder and blizzard be replaced with more voidsent natures?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Then I thought about Y'shtola's first brush with direct Lifestream exposure, and why it bothered me that she was able to be completely physically reconstituted, except for functioning eyes.

---

That had absolutely nothing to do with how Kan-E-Senna and the elementals managed to get Y'shtola out of the Lifestream and everything to do with the spell she used to get herself into that mess in the first place (Flow). There is a very good reason that particular spell was considered strictly taboo by the Sharalyans - it mucks up your body's aether something bad and alters it aetherically and physically (to say nothing of the whole risk of not arriving at your attended destination in the first place, and sans clothing if you are just lucky enough to actually arrive at all and not be lost in the Lifestream, to eventually suffer effective permandeath in the form of your aetheric essence and soul dissapating). This is proven by Thancred also being permenantly changed by the experience, he cannot use aether at all, and it has renderered his eyes much more paleler than they used to be.

Flow is not Conjury or White Magic, it is a spell far far older known only to the Sharalyans, and was strictly forbidden by them to be used, which is why Matoya chewed Y'shtola out for it, Matoya couldn't understand how her star student could have been so foolish to use such forbidden magic. But recklessness is something of a miqo'te trait I guess. ;)

Flow is, like all magic, the manipulation of aether. But aether is more than just energy, it is the very essence of reality itself, and the more aether you have, the more you are able to directly influence or even reshape that reality. Nuclear physics need not apply (because after all, this is a fantasy world where real-life physics does take a back seat) - you're basically taking reality and altering it, from something as simple as healing a cut with a Cure spell, to materializing stone and flame, to even turning raw materials into a finished item via synthesis - ala crafting. The ultimate expression of this is the power the Ancients wielded where they could pretty much evoke anything by simply a mere thought to the point they could warp aether into creating new life, a bastardization of which is Primal summoning magic.

Magic warps reality, but it does so not by affecting something at an atomic level (because, this is a fantasy world where real physics isn't taken into account), it's affecting the energy of the reality of this world, which is aether. Different schools of magic only differs by how that aether is utilized and the actual source of where that aether comes from.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

That had absolutely nothing to do with how Kan-E-Senna and the elementals managed to get Y'shtola out of the Lifestream

---

So, Flow is an ancient forbidden spell that allows you to teleport without an aethereyte. That's why it's dangerous. When we teleport, at least how I understand it, all that we are becomes aether beaming between two locations. The exact specifics on re-materialization aren't ever given to us, but we are told several times throughout the story that if you don't have a concrete point to come out at, that you dissipate into the Lifestream and are erased, more or less, even using traditional teleportation if the destination aethereyte is damaged.


Since we aren't given the specifics on re-materialization, then we don't know if Kan-E-Senna and the Elementals had to reconstitute Y'shtola's physical body or if by merely having the Elementals find her and snatch her back, she got to re-materialize as though the teleportation had ended normally. The reason I bring it up has less to do with saying that's the way it is, but rather that within my own line of thought, viewing WHMs as masters over matter, they would possess the necessary knowledge and power to completely reassemble a disassembled form.


Also, just because it's a fantasy world doesn't mean that the nature of the real world it's a fantasy for could not be applied. Clearly, it can be, since the story they've written up for us overlaps very well with the real so well that it almost seems intentional. As far as aether being the building block for the FFXIV universe... yes and no. It's clearly energy, but it extends to have a spiritual facet that energy in the real world is not perceived to have. This does not mean the physical building blocks in FFXIV aren't atoms, it just means that atoms in the FFXIV universe have aether (or would be described to have it, by residents of that world). Case and point, there are still mundane objects and people in the FFXIV world that do not possess aetheric qualities at all(things like bedsheets, people like Garleans).

It's not a world where real physics aren't taken into account, rather a world where real physics are only included insofar as they need to be (rarely). Things like blood loss, getting your windpipe crushed, the idea of ponzes and onzes and other measurement systems. The need to breathe air. The water cycle. It's all there.

Also, also, as for Creation Magic being the highest form of aetherial manipulation and creating life... yes, but no to the second part. We're told that souls started to drift into their creations, giving them true life, before that they were aetherically generated simulacra. So they could create whatever they wanted, but they couldn't make souls. Their creations weren't alive until they had a soul of some sort. Even when they made gods, those gods had to have Amaurotine souls as their hearts. Their simulacra were aetheric geometry molded for specific purposes.

Summoning magic is a crude form of this, where any souls that go into it are merely drops in the bucket for the aether necessary to sustain the creation's physical form. Which is another reason why, for things that have physical bodies, there is a distinction between physical matter and aetherial matter. You may have no desire to apply physics to FFXIV, and that's perfectly fine, but it is there in the physical reality of FFXIV's world, and it will be there whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Today I got to the role quests again in Shadowbringers, and Giott claiming to have broken ribs and a broken femur instantly knitted back together and be better off than they were before... I try to imagine just how healing magic works to heal things. The reassembly of any portion of the body. It doesn't work on serious illnesses though...

Then I thought about Y'shtola's first brush with direct Lifestream exposure, and why it bothered me that she was able to be completely physically reconstituted, except for functioning eyes.

I thought about how the early Stone spells conjure stones from nowhere. Wind from nowhere. I thought about how the fundamental elements for Conjurerers are stone, wind, and water... solids, gases, and liquids.

It seems to me that healers in FFXIV's world control the state of matter down to the atomic bonds. It's used to greatest effect with healing, and their DPS spells up until this point used the crude, macro level of the states of matter, rather than altering the matter itself. So rather than Stone Mastery IV, it's more like, Matter Mastery IV.

Healers are frightening and beautiful on so many levels.

---

It really is frightening and very interesting! The body is often seen as capable of self-healing, self-regulation and health maintenance. Disease, then, results from the deterioration of such processes, and truth be told, out here in real life we place a lot of faith in these processes ("sometimes no medicine is the best medicine"). This isn't to say that such things are absent from healing in XIV, of course, and healing certainly isn't flawless but despite that, it is really -incredibly- powerful. It's certainly no surprise if one thinks about how a lot of it involves manipulation at an atomic level. Were it so easy in real life haha...