Suggestion: relocation should be subject to the same timer as first time buyers.

The housing system is already bad enough for the have-nots without having the already-gots swooping in because they like the plot better. People being able to relocate to plots creates a large problem of its own through reddit/discord/pf sale of plots as "buy-relocation."

Making relocation subject to the same timer would effectively neuter the p2p economy of houses as a commodity, and would make things much less of an issue for newcomers to housing. Only downside I can see is that "Buy-FC" becomes a much bigger seller\\\\'s market for FC houses in "desirable" plots.

No thank you. Seems like you don't understand the reason we have relocation and it's benefits. While I agree the timer thing is bs but this isn't a solution in any way you look at it.

Adding relocation to the purchase timer does nothing to benefit those looking to buy a house for the first time.

It doesn't matter whether the player who ends up with the plot was a new buyer or someone relocating - every other player trying to buy is going to be disappointed because they still don't have a plot.

At least with relocation, you know another plot is available somewhere else on your world. You have another chance to buy in the next 24 hours. If a new buyer ends up with the plot, you don't know how long you're going to be waiting for another one to become available.

Then please, elaborate on the reason and benefit of having relocation skip the timer? Right now it mostly serves as a means of players being able to trade houses amongst each other for increasingly inflated gil costs. We can do without that. Folks relocating to a plot already have the benefit of getting a reduced gil cost.

No.

Relocation doesn't take away from the existing supply, only first time buying does. In SE's eyes, this doesn't warrant a timer, because they're not taking away a house when someone relocates.

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Originally Posted by ramsesh

No.

Relocation doesn't take away from the existing supply, only first time buying does. In SE's eyes, this doesn't warrant a timer, because they're not taking away a house when someone relocates.

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But it continues to support a secondary economy where players buy up plots and sell the relinquishing rights for a profit. This is clearly not what SE intended, and limiting ways players abuse a system is good for the overall health of the game.

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Originally Posted by 8bitbort

But it continues to support a secondary economy where players buy up plots and sell the relinquishing rights for a profit. This is clearly not what SE intended, and limiting ways players abuse a system is good for the overall health of the game.

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That will continue to be an issue even if they take Relocation out, purely because they can't police the platforms where those sales are made. in a sea of relinquished plots and relocations, SE would have a hard time figuring out which are legit and which are a result of RMT.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

That will continue to be an issue even if they take Relocation out, purely because they can't police the platforms where those sales are made. in a sea of relinquished plots and relocations, SE would have a hard time figuring out which are legit and which are a result of RMT.

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Couldn't have said it better myself.

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Originally Posted by 8bitbort

But it continues to support a secondary economy where players buy up plots and sell the relinquishing rights for a profit. This is clearly not what SE intended, and limiting ways players abuse a system is good for the overall health of the game.

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It's not relocation that supports the secondary economy. It's the lack of sufficient houses that does that.

Relocation cuts into the secondary economy because current house owners are now free to relocate on their own instead of having to go through a house flipper to get a better plot. Flippers are hindered by trying to buy a plot in the first place then trying to get a better plot that other players are willing to pay extra to obtain. Except those players are now their direct competitors when those more desirable plots become available instead of customers held hostage.

Nothing you're saying here does a thing to make it easier for first time buyers to get a house and that supposedly is your goal.

That said, are we about to see a temporary surge in flipping of all types including to relocating owners? Of course. New wards are getting added and that means flippers are going to have an easier time buying the desirable plots. But it's going to be a temporary surge only. Once all those plots are sold and those who own the plots are people who intend to keep them, the flipping diminishes rapldly. It goes back to using shell FCs to buy houses so the player who wants to own a house can bypass the timer by purchasing the FC directly.

Trying to change how the purchasing system works at this point is nothing but band-aids on band-aids, and that's a layered mess than quickly falls apart. Until SE implements a system where every player is guaranteed a house if they want it, there will be players that end up unhappy. Making it more difficult to relocate is not going to improve their experience. It's going to give more power back to the flippers.

Allowing relocation literally DOES support the p2p market, because without it, the only people that could still functionally sell houses are the people selling FC ownership, which is a mess of its own. Putting measures into place that reduce the avenues for people to abuse a system literally DOES help new homeowners, because there's less shenanigans going on that would hinder the buyability.

Even the argument that "but a relocation doesn't take away a house, there's still a net availability of. one house" isn't really a good one, because it basically just resets the wait timer to 12+ hours. I still haven't seen an argument against this outside of "but I still want to sell houses" or "but bad people will still be bad though" or "if it doesn't solve every problem at once it isn't worth implementing."

Not to mention, no one has said what those benefits of relocation skipping the timer are for the over housing system as a whole. Despite saying there's benefits.

This would lengthen the amount of time it takes to fill empty plots.

Under the current system:
1. Players A, B, C, D have been camping a house 8 hours. Player E walks up and relocates.
2. Players A, B, C, D locate player E's old plot and 12 hours later, one of them wins it.
Total time a house stands unoccupied: 20 hours

Under your proposed system:
1. Players A, B, C, D have been camping a house 8 hours. Player E walks up and begins attempting to relocate.
2. After 4 hours, player E wins the house and relocates.
3. Players A, B, C, D locate player E's old plot and 12 hours later, one of them wins it.
Total time a house stands unoccupied: 24 hours

This isn't going to be the story with every timer-blocked relocation, but it will be the story with enough of them. Relocation-trains are frustrating enough to campers without making them take hours longer.

Under the current system, ideal relocations are snapped up in minutes, allowing people to return to the game. If a Mist 35 sat open for 8-22 hours with half the server camping it, the lost play-hours from everyone would be incalculable.

Camping itself is a poor system, and a miserable experience. Making every plot a camp every time seems more like a step backward than a step forward.

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Originally Posted by 8bitbort

Then please, elaborate on the reason and benefit of having relocation skip the timer? Right now it mostly serves as a means of players being able to trade houses amongst each other for increasingly inflated gil costs. We can do without that. Folks relocating to a plot already have the benefit of getting a reduced gil cost.

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It makes the source plot available to be bought, albeit a timer.
If you were to "punish" re-locators with same timer, it would literally not fix anything. Just make it worse.

This might sound harsh but if housing is a huge deal and you're on such a populated server where this is such a issue as you describe, I would suggest switch server. On my server (in Light) we have plots available on a weekly basis, and while you have to camp for the plot if, unable to re-locate it's not same situation as you describe in OP.

With all that, I agree timer is a crap system and I been on the receiving end of it before both for my personal house and FC house. Spent both 16-20 hours per plot before relocated to better spots and sizes. I'd be pretty pissed if I had to do the timer thing again for a FC house expansion.

Hilarious. Do we want more timers or less, again?

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Originally Posted by Catstab

This would lengthen the amount of time it takes to fill empty plots.

Under the current system:
1. Players A, B, C, D have been camping a house 8 hours. Player E walks up and relocates.
2. Players A, B, C, D locate player E's old plot and 12 hours later, one of them wins it.
Total time a house stands unoccupied: 20 hours

Under your proposed system:
1. Players A, B, C, D have been camping a house 8 hours. Player E walks up and begins attempting to relocate.
2. After 4 hours, player E wins the house and relocates.
3. Players A, B, C, D locate player E's old plot and 12 hours later, one of them wins it.
Total time a house stands unoccupied: 24 hours

This isn't going to be the story with every timer-blocked relocation, but it will be the story with enough of them. Relocation-trains are frustrating enough to campers without making them take hours longer.

Under the current system, ideal relocations are snapped up in minutes, allowing people to return to the game. If a Mist 35 sat open for 8-22 hours with half the server camping it, the lost play-hours from everyone would be incalculable.

Camping itself is a poor system, and a miserable experience. Making every plot a camp every time seems more like a step backward than a step forward.

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The problem with the current situation in your example is it suggests the average house-hopeful player can click a placard for 20 hours straight. This is incredibly unreasonable of an expectation. And again, if there wasn't such a MARKET for selling relocation rights, there wouldn't be such a burden on housing as a whole. I think you even said yourself that players would focus on camping the plot they actually want, rather than just trying to get something until they have the gil to talk someone into releasing the plot they actually want. Yes it would suck for players who already bought their "placeholder" house, but it levels the playing field significantly.

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Originally Posted by Luna-M

It makes the source plot available to be bought, albeit a timer.
If you were to "punish" re-locators

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This isn't about punishing anything. This is leveling the playing field so that everyone has the same shot at "desirable" plots, and not just people who already got their foot in the door with a "placeholder" like goblet 22. In addition, this curbs a big segment of the market for selling relocations, which means people would camp the plot they actually want, instead of just camping "lol whatever" until they can hand 150 million gil off to a player to give them their ideal LB medium

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Originally Posted by 8bitbort

This isn't about punishing anything. This is leveling the playing field so that everyone has the same shot at "desirable" plots, and not just people who already got their foot in the door with a "placeholder" like goblet 22. In addition, this curbs a big segment of the market for selling relocations, which means people would camp the plot they actually want, instead of just camping "lol whatever" until they can hand 150 million gil off to a player to give them their ideal LB medium

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But paying 150M isn't happening on a wide scale. That's just painting the wrong picture.

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

Hilarious. Do we want more timers or less, again?

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Personally, I'd like to see all types of housing timers become irrelevant because SE finally implements a system where supply meets demand.

No more purchase timer. No more demolition timer. Every one who wants a house has one.

If SE won't do that, then the purchase timer is still needed to prevent things from going back to when the house flippers ran the housing sales instead of SE.

The only change I'd like to see with respect to relocation is for the cooldown to be changed from 5 minutes to 30 days. Granted it doesn't happen often but there have been players who relocated their house then immediately relocated back to their old plot just to mess with players waiting to buy the available plot. There should be some sort of meaningful decision involved when relocating.

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Originally Posted by Luna-M

But paying 150M isn't happening on a wide scale. That's just painting the wrong picture.

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Your claim is now that the number is what's wrong, and not the system that allows for abuse like it, even if the number is only 20-60 million? Am I understanding this, correctly?

You thinks it is an abuse only because you are in a desperate state due to “lack of the supply”. Under this mental state, you will see everyone as abuser, cheater, and hacker. Relocation is not an issue because there is no one wants to troll by throwing million of gold. Caim down, clear your mind and just put your effort to 5.35 competition.

Relocation does not happen a lot. It most happens every major house plots release where people move to new ward. don’t over exaggerate it as an issue. It is a decision made by a team after weighted pros and cons.

Oh, so now we're moving to gaslighting. If relocation WASN'T such a thing, why are [buy-relo] and [Sell-Relo] such popular tags? Even Catstab says that selling relocation is frowned upon in-game and that it should be kept to the discords where you can't get in trouble.

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Originally Posted by 8bitbort

Then please, elaborate on the reason and benefit of having relocation skip the timer? Right now it mostly serves as a means of players being able to trade houses amongst each other for increasingly inflated gil costs. We can do without that. Folks relocating to a plot already have the benefit of getting a reduced gil cost.

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It serves the purpose of increased comfort as you level up in the housing game. You should only really suffer badly once to get a house, there's no need to keep the suffering going when you want to upgrade your house as well.
Plus like others have said, it changes very little for people trying to buy their first plot. If someone relocates it just opens up a plot somewhere else. There's hardly any time wasted for people placard spamming. I did the math a while back. The difference in the time it takes to get a house between someone staying on the same plot and clicking the placard until the plot unlocks, and someone placard clicking for an hour at a time every day is only about 10%. Clicking the placard and having someone relocate after a few hours is equivalent to that later case.
Plus, that can be further reduced if you use an appropriate house-hunting strategy.

Which while I'm on the topic of strategy. House hunting anywhere where someone relocates is a sign that you aren't doing it right. You should focus your efforts on small goblet plots. Anything else will be a bit of a gamble and you should know that going in.

I think relocation is a good addition to the market place. People should not have to fight for a house with this silly timer more than once. Being able to upgrade from a small to medium or large or simply the location is a plus.

I think the idea of having a cool down on relocations however is a good one. Multiple relocations shouldn't be permitted in a short period of time. Perhaps a week or two cool down would be fine.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I think relocation is a good addition to the market place. People should not have to fight for a house with this silly timer more than once. Being able to upgrade from a small to medium or large or simply the location is a plus.

I think the idea of having a cool down on relocations however is a good one. Multiple relocations shouldn't be permitted in a short period of time. Perhaps a week or two cool down would be fine.

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There is a cooldown, you can't do 2 relocation to close to each other. It's not very long cooldown however so increasing it might be a good idea.

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Originally Posted by 8bitbort

Your claim is now that the number is what's wrong, and not the system that allows for abuse like it, even if the number is only 20-60 million? Am I understanding this, correctly?

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No, you're twisting my words. I'm saying the "black market" or whatever you label it isn't such a big and wide issue you make it out to be.

Does it happen? Yes.
Does it happen everywhere? No.

As mentioned many times, there is servers, even to this day with empty plots weekly or bi-weekly. If housing is a big deal to you, consider transferring servers.

Or wait for oct 13 and get a house with the expansion of wards.

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Originally Posted by Luna-M

No, you're twisting my words. I'm saying the "black market" or whatever you label it isn't such a big and wide issue you make it out to be.

Does it happen? Yes.
Does it happen everywhere? No.

As mentioned many times, there is servers, even to this day with empty plots weekly or bi-weekly. If housing is a big deal to you, consider transferring servers.

Or wait for oct 13 and get a house with the expansion of wards.

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I don't quite get why you're attempting to downplay the amount of people doing it. There's Oliver's reddit and associated discord, both with thousands of users, another discord with a fair amount of overlap, party finders for them, etc. And on just ONE of those discords, there's over 2300 hits for "Sell-Relo" and this just the ones that go "SHH NO RMT"

My problem isn't that there aren't the occasional available plot. The problem is that there is a system in place that continues to allow for transactions not desired by SE, and that shutting down the means to take advantage of those unintended markets serves to reduce the "stress" on the housing system, and increasing the overall PERCEPTION of fairness by the player base.

So what you're saying there is a minority. Just cause a search term pop often don't mean there been 2300 transactions, yes?

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Originally Posted by Luna-M

Does it happen everywhere? No.

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There is not a single server in the NA data center that didn't have multiple hits for this one just one of those discords. It wasn't even the one with its own subreddit.

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Originally Posted by Luna-M

So what you're saying there is a minority. Just cause a search term pop often don't mean there been 2300 transactions, yes?

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We don't not make laws to stop wrongdoing for one's committed by the majority. And given how tight the housing supply actually is, a "minority" of abusive players can and, in fact, do cause problems for the player base as a whole. Also, aren't house owners ALREADY the minority in FFXIV?

If relocators were subjected to the timer then housing would get fixed.

Currently, housing owners actively work against the non-owners to prevent organized outcry over the extreme toxicity of the current housing system. SE does this on purpose because it gives them a large enough population of players to suppress the problem by telling others to "work harder". Just click for "another 24 hours" and you'll get there one day little serf!

The current design is unbelievably toxic and pits the playerbase against itself by dividing us into classes. The housing system explicitly is set up for the maximum benefit of people who already own a house at the expense of people who do not.

Relocation should be subject to a two week timer 14 days. This prevents trolls from trolling and prevents the oops I didn't mean to buy this plot tee-hee. because honestly you have to click three times to relocate. the placard, the relocation option, the confirmation window of the price of relocation.

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Originally Posted by 8bitbort

Making relocation subject to the same timer would effectively neuter the p2p economy of houses as a commodity.

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No it wouldn't lol. Sell-FC would still be a thing and in fact it is the only intelligent way to purchase housing from other players. It is cheaper and more convenient and just generally better overall. You wanna eliminate player-to-player sales? Then eliminate FC Housing.

I camped a house for 11 hours (and got it) today.

Am I to understand after waiting 10 hours 45 mins, someone who already had a house could just choose to move to the plot I sat waiting for and there’s nothing I could do about it?

If so that’s terrible. I’m sorry to the vets who think that’s fine but no, if you have a house already you really need to be last priority when it comes to housing. I’d personally like to see first time buyer wards.

I have 3 houses and I don't believe existing homeowners should have the advantage of bypassing timers. We should have to wait and click like everyone else. It's so sad people wait for hours and we just swoop in and take the house away.

I don't think relocation should be removed but I strongly feel there should be a very long cd for it. I read on reddit that the cd for relocation is only 5 minutes. What a freaking joke. Why SE think players would ever need to relocate several times in a single day just escapes me. Some players use relocation to troll first time buyers (sadly some have more gil than decency) and even relocate several times. This has to stop.

The cd for relocation should at the very least be 24 hours. Or put up a stacking cost if you relocate several times within a lockout. Maybe both.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I don't think relocation should be removed but I strongly feel there should be a very long cd for it. I read on reddit that the cd for relocation is only 5 minutes. What a freaking joke. Why SE think players would ever need to relocate several times in a single day just escapes me. Some players use relocation to troll first time buyers (sadly some have more gil than decency) and even relocate several times. This has to stop.

The cd for relocation should at the very least be 24 hours. Or put up a stacking cost if you relocate several times within a lockout. Maybe both.

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Agreed.

While I managed to relocate to the large I been looking for since we known about additional wards but I had FC members who been wanted a house for months and a big struggle find a plot that didnt have a timer on it. Even on Zodiark which is what i consider a smaller EU server (though they all fairly equal nowadays) had a big issue of this.

Relocation itself may not be the root issue, but it was on these new wards.

Frankly relocation, or a very extended relo, should always be present on NEW wards. The new wards were supposed to be a bandaid for people looking for their first home. Relocators bought the new plots then relo'ed where they wanted to, effectively undoing the insta-buy intention that was part of the incentive of these new wards.

The existing system, though obviously there for a reason, was exploited. Was this an oversight? Absolutely. These three wards were supposed to be timer free - that was their intention. By buying then relo'ing on the NEW plots, they were changed to work like the old wards - and that was not the intention per the Live Letters.

Whenever new wards are up they should be locked out for relo in order to give new purchasers priority. And if you already own a home, then demolish it and take your chances.

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Originally Posted by CoinTossRelic

Relocation itself may not be the root issue, but it was on these new wards.

Frankly relocation, or a very extended relo, should always be present on NEW wards. The new wards were supposed to be a bandaid for people looking for their first home. Relocators bought the new plots then relo'ed where they wanted to, effectively undoing the insta-buy intention that was part of the incentive of these new wards.

The existing system, though obviously there for a reason, was exploited. Was this an oversight? Absolutely. These three wards were supposed to be timer free - that was their intention. By buying then relo'ing on the NEW plots, they were changed to work like the old wards - and that was not the intention per the Live Letters.

Whenever new wards are up they should be locked out for relo in order to give new purchasers priority. And if you already own a home, then demolish it and take your chances.

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Relocation itself wasn't really the problem. The problem was the lack of an effective cooldown timer between purchase/relocations. If people had to wait 24 hours before they moved again, a small part of Tuesday's drama wouldn't have happened.

It still wouldn't have helped those who still weren't able to get a plot because the supply isn't big enough.