Is there any help for not just being a dead target in PVP?

I know, you really don't want others getting better.
Easy targets like me are easy points.

I could use some help getting better though, if there's any advice out there?

seek out the pvpaissa discord.

Are you saying that all the useful information is locked in a closed community in a single discord and nothing of use is in the entire net?

If you have specifics you can also ask here. What environment (Feast, FL, RW, ranked, unranked, etc.)? What role or job? More specific advice can be given though context would be helpful.

That's just it, it doesn't matter what one I do, I die. If I don't die, I'm dead weight. Folks say "stay together" ... and then scatter randomly anyway...

yeah, it kinda sucks frontline pvp is like that unfortunately. You either have people that don't care a just want rewards or they just don't care. I for one love pvp and it is discouraging when you shout commands and you get a group who argues and does not want to work as a team. Or like I had tonight where I was telling people in seal rock (seize) that all we had to do was grab the point and stay on it and def since rng had the points all by our base and the other teams were just fighting each other without contesting us. We ended up wining that game, but I was flamed because were sitting there doing nothing. Hey these game modes are PVP, but if you want to win you have to play the objective to win the game. It was the most confusing game I have played yet and yes I'm new to pvp, but even though I am new I managed to get my self in the top rankings of frontlines. The way I learned was to get my combos right on my character that use first of all. 2nd I watched on youtube how others play the game and I went from there there's not many youtube vids out there because you know "no one likes pvp" >.> but you can learn from what is out there. Now if you are a healer it might be a bit tougher I have difficulties playing healer it's just a whole lot of micro managing. Honestly if you really enjoy pvp hang in there and keep playing don't mind what others say and try your best to learn you wont get better if you don't try. All in all I still enjoy it very much what I dont like is the community and they way they look at pvp. for example if you say some of us really take this game mode seriously they say "that sounds like a you problem" and I've heard it said plenty played over 100 games in a month and I get at least 1 person every other game commenting the same thing it really is sad. I dont know how to fix or what I would recommend for this to stop being an issue. But I wish our community did not dislike pvp the way they do.

There's a couple of "instincts" that you should train in frontlines if you want to be successful.

Seeing the same part of the map for too long means you're losing. You don't wanna be stuck in the same place if you can help it.

You always want to be keeping tabs on how many teammates are around you at any given time. If you look around and you're outnumbered, you're about to get rolled.

The next logical question would be, "Where did they go?" Having your map open (on PC you do this by clicking the compass) will help with this.

Potion use is super important. It's very difficult for healers to save you from a sticky situation if you don't use them, I look at them as a supplement to the healers.

If you're ranged and you are closer to the enemies than the tank is, you need to fix one of those conditions.

"Additional" Pvp actions are super important and should not just be ignored.

Smite is at its highest potency when the target is about 30% HP, you want to be super careful when your health dips that low.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Are you saying that all the useful information is locked in a closed community in a single discord and nothing of use is in the entire net?

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He's saying there's accumulated information and people who specialize in helping that are active there on that open discord server.
It's not closed off. But there is information in many places, it's just helpful to know where to get immediate assistance.

So this sounds like a Frontline thing. I'd assume so, if there is open communication, enough floor space to get lost, and RW queues being dead 99% of the time.

There's a lot of general advice. Toffa covered a lot of the basics: Check your map often. Pan you camera to take in your surroundings often. Don't over-extend. Have an idea of what the different jobs can do in general strokes. Tanks for example can yoink you in at 15 y range, but WAR is a lot scarier because they can yoink you in another 10 y after that. Knowing how you can get punished helps you make informed decisions, since you can't just stay out of range of all enemies forever. It's a matter of taking an inventory of what can go wrong with the decisions you make.

But that's very general. I guess something I want to touch on is kind of philosophical, kind of practical.

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Folks say "stay together" ... and then scatter randomly anyway...

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This is kind of just something I learned from a lot of team games in general, or life stuff, and it's super dangerous advice, but sometimes it's better to support your team in making a suboptimal decision and stay together, than it is to make the most optimal decision but not have sufficient participation to do so. Sometimes your team retreats too soon, or is not aggressive enough, or maybe they fight for an inferior objective. Of course, on the inverse, mob mentality is the other side of the coin, and a whole alliance can get wiped because everyone jumped in on a really bad decision with really no positive outcome. It's hard.

Don't do the thing people do where they go to the mathematically superior objective alone or in insufficient numbers, get picked off piecemeal, and die. It's kind of a hard balance, because part of leadership is initiative, and that means heading to the right part of the map ahead of your team, though if you are dying because you can't read retreat in time, or not getting enough contribution because you are too timid, you have to get better at reading the reality of what players are doing, not what you wish they would do, and making the most out of it. Especially because a lot of this is general advice. It's good general advice to stay together. But like, all the FL maps have a lot of side or lower scoring objectives that are worth controlling, yet only merit a small force or single careful player to handle.

If you could tell me which job or role you want to get better at, I could provide advice for it, though to start it already sounds like you need to improve your awareness.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

That's just it, it doesn't matter what one I do, I die. If I don't die, I'm dead weight. Folks say "stay together" ... and then scatter randomly anyway...

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Two common mis-concepts on the Frontline: "Stay Together" and "Focus Healer"
You are hearing people saying "Stay Together" because most of them only PvP in Onsal Hakir where "Stay Together" is essential because this mode BH determines everything.
When it comes to 3 other modes, this mindset usually got destroyed by base back capping strategy.
Especially you are on Primal with quite few really good backcappers
To put it simply, are you going to send all 24 men to chase 2 or 3 base cappers and ignore objective?
If you do, you lose.
It is really your situation awareness, there is no general advice, you need to anticipate enemy because they are not NPCs

Focus healer on other hand is a common mistake for fresh pvp players.
While it may works in 24 men because it is 3 parties fight each other, it doesn't really works in 72 men scale and we no longer have 24 men.
Current Frontline, it is always a good idea to focus fire Range Players because Range job by default do not have a defense CD and high HP pool
Focus fire on them would increase pressure on the healer to keep them alives as it is always harder to keep Ranges alive than keep Meele/Tank
The focus Healer is bad in general because you are making healer's job easier, all he need to do is to keep himself alive and that is not difficult if he has tanks to assist.


In regard to your personal performance, no one will offer you a "I Win" rotation because there is none.
The target is alive and it is about to perform anticipation on enemy moves.
Knowledge becomes the factor, it is all up to your understanding of your own job and the job of enemy

Played Secure last night and I noticed another 2 common mistakes:

1. Attack main Outpost in group
2. Do not know how to use Main Outpost’s defensive mechanism

Currently, Main Outpost is most secure location if you know how to use its defensive mechanism properly. You will be able to 1 vs 2 GCs and annihilate them both with ease. Attack enemy OP is suicidal.

Currently, due to short sight from SE; Warp is not only unlimited, short cast and it is cast able during combat. Once you step out of spawn area you gained 15s immunity. It takes only 2s to reach main Flag with mount so you have 13s immuunity duration. All you need to do is warped in group and all run to main flag area and use aoe moves and your Summoners AOE stun to lock targets in the area. Recast warp when it has 3s left to again 15s immunity again. Repeat and rinse and enemy will drop like flies.

Another thing.

Most people tend to target people with a "target closest enemy" bind.

If you're out standing in front, you're gonna get bopped.

When you -DO- get targetted and the damage becomes overwhelming, you want to run to your backline or break line of sight with a wall or something to break aggro (get out of melee and casting range) and potentially force people out of position.

Don't just run back and forth in front of the enemies, wasting all your pots and your healer's MP without breaking aggro!

Basicly no. Get a pocket healer if you are a Melee. Dragoon has been op for multiple Seasons now. If you play alone you are dependand on where your team goes. You play jobs wich are "balanced" towards 4v4 in a 72 people environment. You simply have no Tools for "big plays" as some would call it. You press your 4 damagebuttons and soon as you notice more than one person focusing you, you gotta retreat or you die. There is a rare occurance where the people with the green symbols press healing instead of their dps button in wich case you have to determine if this healing is enough to keep you up until the targets that focus you are dead. Hint: it is usually not the case.

Before healers now all jump at me: i played healer a long time, yes also in the upper Ranks of Feast. It just feels that most current Healers just join as such in hopes of farming some commendations. Overall Frontline is just in a bad state, there is a Reason it only opens a few hours a day if at all. Now people will jump at me: "there is not enough pvpers" Well guess why? Because its drop dead boring. There were times when 72 opened 3 am in the morning. Heavensward that is.

Have a good day.

On Primal, I believed Frontline is available from 12:00 PM to 3:00 AM EST. So yeah, I thinks it is your data center