Aether density on Souce vs. remaining shards

I'm wondering how much the "soul density" or "aether density" of beings from the 7x rejoined Source really differ from never rejoined First shard. At first glance, 5.x gameplay barely makes any indication of this, since everything on Norvrandt is level 70-80, higher than most things encountered on the Source thus far.

I'm particularly curious as to what this means for wildlife and foodstuffs: would fish caught in the Rak'tika Greatwood ecosystem have less nutrition value than fish native to waterways on the Source? Same with the skybuilder stews made with meat from Kholusian rails intended for Ishgardian laborers.

Since the Warrior of Darkness can actually teleport between worlds with this stuff -- and I have sold things (mostly fish) from one world to vendors on another shard -- I can't help but wonder what unintentional side effects of transporting significant quantities of materials of different "rejoinedness" might occur....

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

At first glance, 5.x gameplay barely makes any indication of this, since everything on Norvrandt is level 70-80, higher than most things encountered on the Source thus far.

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Insofar as level is concerned, that's just one of the things you need to decouple from lore for the sake of gameplay.

Actually, you don't need to divorce the level of Norvarandt beings from the story entirely. Like, yes, in places it's a bit out of touch with the story, but in all zones there is the reason that beings had to survive in a literal wasteland for a hundred years while Sineaters move about killing and converting everything too weak to resist.

This basically holds true in every zone, with the exception of The Tempest, but even in The Tempest, we can chock that up to the sea creatures that didn't die several moments after being completely deprived of their natural habitat, i.e. the strongest ones.

As for how soul density is affected, that's a matter of contention. Rejoinings will only affect the planet itself and life that contains souls from the ancient world. All new souls, regardless of shard, likely have similar densities, which are less dense than ancient souls.

Of course, soul density isn't the only determiner for strength, considering the gulf of strength between Catboi Sage Deluxe and the WoL. Or like how we start out at level 1 barely able to contend with squirrels. There's a whole physical aspect to how well bodies channel and direct their aether. The stronger you become physically, the better you are able to direct and control your aether.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Actually, you don't need to divorce the level of Norvarandt beings from the story entirely. Like, yes, in places it's a bit out of touch with the story, but in all zones there is the reason that beings had to survive in a literal wasteland for a hundred years while Sineaters move about killing and converting everything too weak to resist.

This basically holds true in every zone, with the exception of The Tempest, but even in The Tempest, we can chock that up to the sea creatures that didn't die several moments after being completely deprived of their natural habitat, i.e. the strongest ones.

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Also to be fair, if you're a SCH, in the level 80 Job Quest you fight a level 80 Treant in the Shroud, which implies that this one Treant could conceivably solo all of ARR.

Zenos doesn't have to wait to fight us. He could just practice against The Strongest Treant In The World.

One thing to consider is that even seven-times-Rejoined (Ardbert wasn't part of us at the time), one Ancient that mistakes us for a child can't even detect our ability to use Creation magic, it's so small. You'd think that seven-times-rejoined would mean that we'd have half the capability of a fully-rejoined Ancient - but that's clearly not the case. Additionally, beings on the First, each with a seventh our "soul density", can put up as much of a fight as anyone on the Source.

My guess is that there's some kind of tipping point, or some kind of asymptotic curve; power levels are relatively flat until you reach a certain point, beyond which you quickly become godlike. Conveniently, we will never see that tipping point come into play.

This theory does make one wonder, though, why Hydaelyn split the world into fourteen, if folks would effectively be crippled just split into two. Perhaps she had no control over the number of pieces into which she split the world, or perhaps Zodiark's tipping point comes much sooner, or maybe she anticipated that some misguided souls would try to glue the world back together again and wanted to make it harder for them to do.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

This theory does make one wonder, though, why Hydaelyn split the world into fourteen, if folks would effectively be crippled just split into two. Perhaps she had no control over the number of pieces into which she split the world, or perhaps Zodiark's tipping point comes much sooner, or maybe she anticipated that some misguided souls would try to glue the world back together again and wanted to make it harder for them to do.

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Perhaps there were 14 individuals who formed Hydaelyn. Venat, being the strongest, would be the Source/Heart. The other 13 who were much weaker, ended up becoming the Shards/parts. There are 14 simply because there are 14 parts of Hydaelyn holding the seal together. Each time a Calamity happens, a shard/part of Hydaelyn is lost, and the power load goes onto the Source/Heart. This would explain the reason why Hydaelyn can't effect anything directly anymore is because the load on the Heart is too much. One more piece lost, and she theoretically can no longer keep the seal going effectively. This makes the power ratio somewhat...interesting as well. Hydaelyn at the start was at her most powerful, but Zodiark was at his weakest. Each time a Calamity occurs, Hydaelyn loses power and Zodiark gains it. A sort of tug of war of power.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

One thing to consider is that even seven-times-Rejoined (Ardbert wasn't part of us at the time), one Ancient that mistakes us for a child can't even detect our ability to use Creation magic, it's so small. You'd think that seven-times-rejoined would mean that we'd have half the capability of a fully-rejoined Ancient - but that's clearly not the case. Additionally, beings on the First, each with a seventh our "soul density", can put up as much of a fight as anyone on the Source.

My guess is that there's some kind of tipping point, or some kind of asymptotic curve; power levels are relatively flat until you reach a certain point, beyond which you quickly become godlike. Conveniently, we will never see that tipping point come into play.

This theory does make one wonder, though, why Hydaelyn split the world into fourteen, if folks would effectively be crippled just split into two. Perhaps she had no control over the number of pieces into which she split the world, or perhaps Zodiark's tipping point comes much sooner, or maybe she anticipated that some misguided souls would try to glue the world back together again and wanted to make it harder for them to do.

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correct me if I'm wrong, but was the step after rejoining everything being to sacrifice the current inhabitants of the Source to bring back the deceased Auamrotines? It might stand to reason that the results of the sundering had left the mortal shells with an aether capacity that is far lower than the an Ancient's body, and while while rejoining or the Echo might increase that capacity, that capacity might still be too low for them to reach the same heights. And that it was probably by design (since IIRC, post Final days there were debates about whether to sacrifice the then new life to Zodiark or now, which was what lead to Hydaelyn. the implication being that the Ancients created new life with built in limits to manipulating aether). Of course that doesn't explain how the Ascians got their powers back, but then again Emet-Selch seems to be the only one among them that actually displayed creation magics in all its glory so maybe the Sundered, while still closer to the Ancients, likely still has a cap too low for them to use creation magics like Emet, Lahabrea or Elidibus could.

I reckon the people of the first are just as strong (and nutritious, I guess :eek:) as people from the Source. Primarily because soul density just doesn't seem to be all that relevant outside of very niche circumstances, like say for example, if you're trying to munch down on an entire continents worth of light aether.

Basically everyone interacts with the world using a mix of pure physical strength, aether drawn from their body, and aether drawn from the surrounding environment. Outside of a couple main characters I don't recall an instance of someone using their soul as fuel for their abilities.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

correct me if I'm wrong, but was the step after rejoining everything being to sacrifice the current inhabitants of the Source to bring back the deceased Auamrotines? It might stand to reason that the results of the sundering had left the mortal shells with an aether capacity that is far lower than the an Ancient's body, and while while rejoining or the Echo might increase that capacity, that capacity might still be too low for them to reach the same heights.

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That's correct, yes. Hythlodaeus said that the plan was to rejoin the shards, then pick up where they left off and sacrifice what life was left on the now-rejoined Source. Which means, by inference, that all the death and destruction associated with Calamities on the Source and complete destruction of a shard are irrelevant in terms of aether required to sacrifice to Zodiark.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

I reckon the people of the first are just as strong (and nutritious, I guess :eek:) as people from the Source. Primarily because soul density just doesn't seem to be all that relevant outside of very niche circumstances, like say for example, if you're trying to munch down on an entire continents worth of light aether.

Basically everyone interacts with the world using a mix of pure physical strength, aether drawn from their body, and aether drawn from the surrounding environment. Outside of a couple main characters I don't recall an instance of someone using their soul as fuel for their abilities.

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Are you planning to eat people now as the Cannibal of Light?

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

Also to be fair, if you're a SCH, in the level 80 Job Quest you fight a level 80 Treant in the Shroud, which implies that this one Treant could conceivably solo all of ARR.

Zenos doesn't have to wait to fight us. He could just practice against The Strongest Treant In The World.

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If it had the Blessing of Light, sure. Otherwise it wouldn't be able to damage the Ultima Weapon. Of course, it doesn't have much going on aetherically unless it's got a sundered ancient soul inside of it, so it's just a really sturdy treant. :^)

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Are you planning to eat people now as the Cannibal of Light?

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*Sings*

Cannibal of Light: Shia LaBeouf!

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Are you planning to eat people now as the Cannibal of Light?

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OP asks if fish caught on the First would be less nutritious than those from the Source ;)

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Originally Posted by Jandor

OP asks if fish caught on the first would be less nutritious than those from the source ;)

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Sooo yes on the cannibal of light then. =P

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Sooo yes on the cannibal of light then. =P

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No, nothing like that. I'm just saying, you wouldn't starve if you had to eat people from the First.

>_>