Toxic healers

What is up with the phenomenon of healers being ego maniacs?

I tanked a lvl 71 dung last night where the healer was a male roe with no clothes on and a suggestive name who kept pulling ahead of me. The third pull I died followed by the dps and he finished the last 2 mobs remaining solo and then proceeded to say he was very skilled and pulled the boss while me and the 2 other dps were still running back.

The second boss, I had to afk (I think i was afk for 2 minutes) because I heard a loud bang downstairs, and when I got back they (I’m assuming the healer) had pulled the boss and kept everyone alive, and once the boss died he said “having a tank is useless LMFAO” and sprinted & pulled every single pack until the last boss where he miraculously waited.

At the end of the dungeon he did a squat & push-up emote and told me I need to learn how to pull faster with an air kiss emote

I just had to share that experience because it was probably the most toxic person I’ve ever encountered in this game.

That sounds like an experience.

I'm curious... you make it plural yet you seem to only be pointing out this one healer?

I've run into what you explained here from every class role. It's very rare but it's not just healers.

That does sound like a toxic person, but don't single out healers just because of him. Just report and move on if it bothers you so much.

You can report that to the GM's. If you open up Contacts it will show you every single player you partied with in Roulletes or outside, complete with their full name and homeworld lol. FFXIV is usually one of the nicer MMO's out there and that's because the GM's will put you in ingame jail if you do something like that and get reported xD.

How did you tank holminster switch when you don't have a tank at level 70? Assuming you're not an alt.

t̶o̶x̶i̶c̶ ̶h̶e̶a̶l̶e̶r̶s̶ -> Toxic player

This is not a normal behavior amongst healers, I have all my jobs in 71+ and encountering a toxic healer like this is quite rare. So best thing you can do is to report the toxic player and hope that you'll get a better healer next time.

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

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I just had to share that experience because it was probably the most toxic person I’ve ever encountered in this game.

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I encountered worse healer ego moments here and there, it often leads down the same route of he say/she say and etc. I normally just report and keep silent as those types of hostile healers tend to direct all their hostility towards the tank or their fellow healers, it's rare to see them being hostile at dps.

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

What is up with the phenomenon of healers being ego maniacs?

I tanked a lvl 71 dung last night where the healer was a male roe with no clothes on and a suggestive name who kept pulling ahead of me. The third pull I died followed by the dps and he finished the last 2 mobs remaining solo and then proceeded to say he was very skilled and pulled the boss while me and the 2 other dps were still running back.

The second boss, I had to afk (I think i was afk for 2 minutes) because I heard a loud bang downstairs, and when I got back they (I’m assuming the healer) had pulled the boss and kept everyone alive, and once the boss died he said “having a tank is useless LMFAO” and sprinted & pulled every single pack until the last boss where he miraculously waited.

At the end of the dungeon he did a squat & push-up emote and told me I need to learn how to pull faster with an air kiss emote

I just had to share that experience because it was probably the most toxic person I’ve ever encountered in this game.

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I'm not sure it's the class as much as it's the players attitude, narcissistic personalities are found in every class type I've seen, They believe they are never wrong, they are just too awesome, everyone else is ruining their day. I'm a healer and I try to be polite and quietly follow behind the tank allowing them to lead since they have to pull. I've grit my teeth about other players in the past but keep any frustration to myself so a to not hinder things further if they are having a rough time or just a bad day.
https://external-content.duckduckgo....jpg&f=1&nofb=1

What a player dresses their avatar in also tells you a lot about them, if they show up bearing a lot or total skin, they will most likely be occupied with viewing their toon instead of focusing on the task at hand...and are easily provoked emotionally too.

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

What is up with the phenomenon of healers being ego maniacs?

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'phenomenon' is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

Sounds like the only thing that healer did wrong was bragging about his capabilities and letting you and the dps die once, though if you're the kind of tank to single pull it seems equally probable that you stood in an aoe or failed to mitigate properly. Pulling ahead isn't the kindest way of telling a tank that single pulling isn't acceptable in ShB dungeons, but it works. I can't fault him for pulling a boss to teleport you all there instead of forcing you to spend three times as long running back. I also don't see any problem with pushing on ahead while someone is afk. He's also not wrong to tell you that you need to learn to pull faster. If there are enemies left for the healer to pull then the tank has failed at pulling.

There are certainly more polite ways of getting the message across, but it seems hyperbolic to call his conduct toxic.

This didn't need its own thread we have tales of the duty finder megathread for precisely this level of venting.

That said I will address it.

No this is nothing new and 1 experience does not make it a phenomenon.

People have egos, everyone does, some are small, some are big, some are obnoxious, some are benign.

SE has allowed some egos to develop larger than they should, healers able to pull and handle everything without tanks in current content is one of those, because nothing on its own will kill if you obey mechanics, things are that weak hitting and healer kits continue to get bloated with more ogcd heals that it creates the scenario of who needs a tank for bosses. This can also go back and bite healers because guess what Pld gives up a fair amount of damage but they can solo current bosses, because SE will not up the amount tankbusters hit or their frequency because of the lowest common denominator.


Long gone are the days of the tank set the pace of the dungeon, the group collectively does, so 3/4 people decided that they can handle the boss without you the tank, it happens because it is allowed to by design.

We are also missing details did you tell them you had to go afk or did you just go(I would do the latter if I heard a long bang downstairs fearing a break in or someone getting hurt) thus them pulling boss might be due to timers and thinking your still there.

A healer pulling a pack more is an unsubtle nod to pull more, it is the worse way to communicate that intent and you should if it bothered you say something or that attitude will continue frustrating you more, however at Lv71 I expect full pulls with tanks as you have had 70 levels with pld and war, 41 levels with drk and 11 levels with gnb at that point(If you use jump potion it is on you to learn what you need to do to not be a hindrance to your group) to get fully used to your job and I audibly groan when I see baby pulls in any ShB dungeons, I don't like it but I will put up with them unless tank is a flat out hindrance where das boot incoming.

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Originally Posted by Jaelommiss

.He's also not wrong to tell you that you need to learn to pull faster. If there are enemies left for the healer to pull then the tank has failed at pulling.

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I agree to a point, but I find it better to adapt to the tank if he/she is clearly new/unsure of the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Jaelommiss

Pulling ahead isn't the kindest way of telling a tank that single pulling isn't acceptable in ShB dungeons, but it works.

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Originally Posted by Jaelommiss

He's also not wrong to tell you that you need to learn to pull faster. If there are enemies left for the healer to pull then the tank has failed at pulling.

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Who the f made these rules?
Unless I see a line in SE's user agreement that single pulling isn't acceptable - ANY kind of pulling is acceptable.
If the tank is new to the dungeon, doesn't have the best gear or is simply choosing to be more careful then let them tank the way they want or just discuss it with them in the chat.
I absolutely hate big pulls, they stress me out, especially after seeing people die on them numerous times. And this wastes more time than pulling normally.

Let people tank the way they want instead of forcing them into those "standards".

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

What is up with the phenomenon of healers being ego maniacs?

I tanked a lvl 71 dung last night where the healer was a male roe with no clothes on and a suggestive name who kept pulling ahead of me. The third pull I died followed by the dps and he finished the last 2 mobs remaining solo and then proceeded to say he was very skilled and pulled the boss while me and the 2 other dps were still running back.

The second boss, I had to afk (I think i was afk for 2 minutes) because I heard a loud bang downstairs, and when I got back they (I’m assuming the healer) had pulled the boss and kept everyone alive, and once the boss died he said “having a tank is useless LMFAO” and sprinted & pulled every single pack until the last boss where he miraculously waited.

At the end of the dungeon he did a squat & push-up emote and told me I need to learn how to pull faster with an air kiss emote

I just had to share that experience because it was probably the most toxic person I’ve ever encountered in this game.

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How does one bad experience make all healer toxic ego maniacs?

Especially when there are examples of tanks and DPS behaving the same way/

I've been pugging raids since HW, and I'd probably agree that healers stand out as the role that generally has the most... problematic players. I think I've removed more healers from my parties than any other role by far, and in most cases they've had bad attitudes. Lots of "I control who lives or dies, now the whole party must cater to me while I underperform!" types.

I think the nature of the role tends to attract people who want to feel needed or important; It also certainly doesn't help that the FFXIV community creates a lot of content involving really exaggerated healer worship.

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

What is up with the phenomenon of healers being ego maniacs?

I tanked a lvl 71 dung last night where the healer was a male roe with no clothes on and a suggestive name who kept pulling ahead of me. The third pull I died followed by the dps and he finished the last 2 mobs remaining solo and then proceeded to say he was very skilled and pulled the boss while me and the 2 other dps were still running back.

The second boss, I had to afk (I think i was afk for 2 minutes) because I heard a loud bang downstairs, and when I got back they (I’m assuming the healer) had pulled the boss and kept everyone alive, and once the boss died he said “having a tank is useless LMFAO” and sprinted & pulled every single pack until the last boss where he miraculously waited.

At the end of the dungeon he did a squat & push-up emote and told me I need to learn how to pull faster with an air kiss emote

I just had to share that experience because it was probably the most toxic person I’ve ever encountered in this game.

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You met a jerk. Congrats. Report and move on.

Last expac it was entitled tanks to the point that their jobs were gutted and a lot of other jobs homogenized so they could no longer enable this behavior. In Stormblood, tank optimization required the party to mitigate their own enmity and there are pages and pages in the Duty Finder thread of tanks going into God-Mode if you pulled aggro from them or refused to use your mitigation skills to enable that style of play.

Again, a lot of this is just...jerks but since that behavior was nominally supported the magical word of OPTIMIZATION, a lot of people viewed it as acceptable and even defended it; even when people were getting shirked or left for dead in duties if you stepped a toe out of line.

I feel like Green Healing has moved in to fill that spot but a lot of that is backlash over the stripping and/or redistribution of skills that had once made each healing job unique. Now it's meh. By pretty much everyone's admission.

That person might have been skilled but they were garbage socially and likely the reason why they ran from fight to fight was to prevent you from vote-kicking. As other have suggested, either report or blacklist that person and never have to worry about them again.

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Originally Posted by Lumivyory

Who the f made these rules?
Unless I see a line in SE's user agreement that single pulling isn't acceptable - ANY kind of pulling is acceptable.
If the tank is new to the dungeon, doesn't have the best gear or is simply choosing to be more careful then let them tank the way they want or just discuss it with them in the chat.
I absolutely hate big pulls, they stress me out, especially after seeing people die on them numerous times. And this wastes more time than pulling normally.

Let people tank the way they want instead of forcing them into those "standards".

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It's ok. I'll be sure to have you kicked for wasting everyone's time if you single pull a late game dungeon. You refusing to get better on tank is directly harming my experience and is against my playstyle, so I have every right.

You'll get it eventually. <3

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Originally Posted by Daibunnie

How did you tank holminster switch when you don't have a tank at level 70? Assuming you're not an alt.

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I would assume its an alt. You have to manual switch your toon here on the forum. I have a crap to of alts I play back and forth all.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

It's ok. I'll be sure to have you kicked for wasting everyone's time if you single pull a late game dungeon. You refusing to get better on tank is directly harming my experience and is against my playstyle, so I have every right.

You'll get it eventually. <3

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Will you do this on a tank new to the dungeon? I personally like learning where things spawn my first time in, but I also do every new thing as a healer first.

The role isn't the blame, but the player is. I wouldn't assume that just because one healer said mean things to you that all of them are like that, because they aren't. Far from it, actually. In my experience, healers are ridiculously patient most of the time. Being a tank requires a certain amount of patience, but you have to be on another level to be a good healer.

I'm sorry that you had such a horrific experience and dealt with someone that should be reported for toxicity, but the whole "I experienced this once" then grouping the healer role as "ego maniacs" is a little much lol.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

It's ok. I'll be sure to have you kicked for wasting everyone's time if you single pull a late game dungeon. You refusing to get better on tank is directly harming my experience and is against my playstyle, so I have every right.

You'll get it eventually. <3

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I don't necessarily disagree with the entirety of what you said. It is everyone's prerogative to learn their job, unfortunately not everyone learns at the same pace or as skilled as the next player.
As much as I like to vroom vroom through all the dungeons, I do believe that because it's team content, everyone deserves a say on the pace of which we're going.
If my tank isn't comfortable with room to room pulling, if my healer isn't comfortable healing my butt, or if the DPS is too low where it's affecting both the Tank and Healer - I'd rather clear it at a slower consistent pace than wasting more time on wipes and running back.
Lastly if it's someone's first time and they would like to experience it rather than it being another 11 minute dungeon, I'm going to respect that.

you really should have seen this coming from his name and lack of attire
why you didn't boot or report him is beyond me

and it was a toxic player, not a toxic healer. all roles have done this behaviour

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Originally Posted by Darsien

Here's the issue: A tank who single pulls is doing 2 things: 1) they make a 15-20 minute dungeon take 30-40 minutes. 2) They are demonstrating that they have been carried through content up until that point. They're getting kicked for such selfishness. As someone who has to join a dungeon as a non-tank to level the job, and as someone who makes Savage alts for non-Tank classes, I don't have the luxury of going in as a tank and doing it properly.

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That in itself is a toxic and elitist mentality. Unless they're intentionally slowing down a dungeon while knowing full well they can handle bigger pulls, I have to disagree with you.
By using Duty Finder you know full well and are accepting the risk of being in a party with people whom you may deemed lesser skilled than you and I would be more than happy to deny such an absurd request to kick the Tank.
I'd go far as to rebuttal that you yourself have the full right to queue premade so you don't have to subject yourself to anyone who is unlucky enough to be performing less than your expectations.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

I'll be sure to let all the kicked tanks know that some average WHM thinks they should be allowed to waste everyone's time, though. You know, as a consolation.

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Stay classy.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

Would kick tank in baby stash

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Aaand we wonder why there's a tank shortage.

In Expert, I totally get it. However if the tank was new to the dungeon I would probably cut them some slack for not knowing the enemy groupings.

But to kick a tank in Satsasha is...pretty reprehensible unless the tank is just being a troll. You don't even need a tank in there and to waste time initiating a vote-kick when you can just go and start mowing down mobs just invalidates the 'waste of time' argument. Kicking anyone outside of the most modern content (unless again, the tank is just being a troll) is really just a dick move when it's far easier to just adjust and get thru the Duty.

Waiting on a new tank is perhaps the biggest waste of time of all and should really be saved for those who truly deserve it. Because a kick doesn't teach a lesson or make a better player. It just mostly enables people to get away with being selfish and callous.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

Elitism, huh? Luckily, the VAST majority of players agree with me, as wall-to-wall pulling is the standard. Any tank who can't handle more then 1 pack isn't fit for play with other players. As I've had dozens of tanks kicked for such unbelievable incompetence, yah. People agree with my side most of the time.

The many good players should not bow to the apathy of the few bad ones. Unfortunately for you, the bad tank makes the PF. Not the other way around.

I'll be sure to let all the kicked tanks know that some average WHM thinks they should be allowed to waste everyone's time, though. You know, as a consolation.

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To to be fair, the only way single pulling would make a run take 15-20 minutes longer is if the dps wasn't up to snuff. But yeah, pulling a bunch and then AoEing them down is the most optimal way to go. New tanks (and yes, I consider anyone who's still green and has hit 80 for the very first time to be new for awhile) are probably going to struggle for a bit at first, so I do think that some patience and understanding is needed in those instances. Let's face it, not everyone is going to be on the same level. That's just how it is. I don't really see how wanting/expecting that type of pulling, since it's basically a community standard, is elitist and toxic though. It's just people wanting to get the most out of their time. Now if party member are bad mouthing the tank and harassing them then yeah, I could see that as being at the very least toxic. Being "elitist" typically doesn't mean what some think it means in an MMO context.

Also, don't forget that H Switch at 71, for a new tank who's not coming geared to the ts from Stormblood is going to get battered even if they don't do the full first pull.
Same gear jump as Bardam's and Doma.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

Also, don't forget that H Switch at 71, for a new tank who's not coming geared to the ts from Stormblood is going to get battered even if they don't do the full first pull.
Same gear jump as Bardam's and Doma.

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Every gear jump that is Stormblood+ sucks tbh, even HSwitch -> Dohn Mheg sucks but mostly because Dohn Mheg has a lot going on and majority of the mobs have mini tank busters lol.
Even full 500ilvl Tank & Healer doing full pulls on Amaurot sucks (or rather 440ilvl because sync) when DPS are new.

The issue I see is healer downtime seriously needs to be addressed. Only a healer can misbehave in this manner and still fulfill their minimum requirement.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

The issue I see is healer downtime seriously needs to be addressed. Only a healer can misbehave in this manner and still fulfill their minimum requirement.

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Honestly I don't have any downtime healing - the mechanics are there for healers to be active, it's a player issue not a game one.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

The issue I see is healer downtime seriously needs to be addressed. Only a healer can misbehave in this manner and still fulfill their minimum requirement.

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Not really, dps requirements for 90% of the game is so low one dps in 4 man can afk with no issues and 2 for 8 mans. Tanks can do this too, since dps requirements are so low.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

Honestly I don't have any downtime healing - the mechanics are there for healers to be active, it's a player issue not a game one.

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Downtime being not time spent healing.

I could agree that it is a player issue at its core, but what is in a jerkface's nature to do is out of the control of the devs. What you do is create more dungeons like The Burn and Amaurot and keep the ilv sync reasonable so it isn't faceroll. You also make it so players can't be undergeared. I am not sure why this is rocket science for the dev team, but I'm just a player.

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

Not really, dps requirements for 90% of the game is so low one dps in 4 man can afk with no issues and 2 for 8 mans. Tanks can do this too, since dps requirements are so low.

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Yes and no. First I was referring to just dungeons since that is what the OP was specifically referring to and not 8-man. Second I was referring to what is the "primary" duty for each role. I quote that because I don't want to get into a cobweb argument about all jobs needing to DPS. While a lot has changed over the years, what has not is some dungeons can have other roles pick up the slack for another such as a healer or DPS tanking, and others cannot. It is also becoming far more common for dungeon bosses to have stack marker mechanics making it near impossible to clear without a tank and healer performing their primary duty. It can still be cleared, but it will be pretty messy. As for DPS, all dungeons have a DPS requirement, even if it is low and the instance will eventually be cleared, you can always look at the HP of all the mobs and bosses as just one giant HP pool. While nearly all dungeons can allow for one DPS to AFK, it seriously adds time to the run even with the other three contributing what they can.

As someone else said this should have been posted in the duty finder ranting thread.

Now to be sarcastic how else are they going to get their blood for their blood lily if it was a whm.

Also gotta love the whole this one time this one healer was mean so all healers must be this way. As a healer main I loathe wall to wall pulls, but that's mostly due to getting a lot of bads. When I say bads I mean anything from poorly geared people, no aoes, people not using their CDs, or a mix of all of those. Yet I've been conditioned to expect that so when it doesn't happen in a dungeon that it makes sense to do it if feels slow. Though I won't go and pull more because I'm not a jerk.

Hahaha, last night I too encountered a Healer that pulled so many ahead when I'm still behind (leveling up Dark Knight) and then when they died they had the gall to say in Party Chat about how I should pull mobs that they are pulling, complete with a condescending "This Tank, LOL" comment.

We wiped but eeh, afterwards everything went smoothly.

As for that comment, I just ignored it. Why waste time getting bothered by something like that anyways :P

I main healers and I dont recall ever telling a tank how to do their job. They pull how they are comfy, and I am expected to adapt.

The person was a jerk, dont paint all healers with the same brush

I would have left immediately.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

Wall to wall? Good. 2 packs? Fine enough. Single packs? Unacceptable that late into the game.

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I don't understand why this is such a controversial statement, lol. Single packs pull is already *too much* for mid-level dungeons, not to mention high-level ones. I mean, I'm not gonna kick a Tank that's doing it--well, not unless the rest of the group is in agreement to do so, hahaha, but single pack pull in late game dungeons is just..... well, I'm gonna raise my eyebrow when I see that, for sure.

I mean like, the difference between pulling a single pack to at least two packs is really really minimal in terms of difficulty, hahaha.