Ifrit Plumes and Eruptions with regards to casting mechanics.

I'm not against the new casting mechanics in general, but there are a few thing you HAVE to adjust with regards to this.

Since you can't move and cast together anymore, and since the actual casting animation freezes you into place, it's become nearly impossible for mages to get out of an Eruption or Plume zone in time. I've had this happen to me countless times:

Scenario 1:
• I start casting Cure for the tank
• Lava circles appear underneath me
• I IMMEDIATELY try to move out of the way while still casting. (Screw Cure, I need to stay alive, let it cancel)
• Server decides my casting was successful, and stops me in my tracks to make me wave my arms as Cure is thrown against my will. I'm still inside the circle by then.
• Lava explodes with me still on the circle. I get hurt LOTS.

Scenario 2:
• I start casting Cure for the tank
• Lava circles appear underneath me
• I IMMEDIATELY try to move out of the way while still casting. (Screw Cure, I need to stay alive, let it cancel)
• Server decides my casting was successful, and stops me in my tracks to make me wave my arms as Cure is thrown against my will. I'm out of the circle by then.
• Lava explodes with me out of the circle. Server thinks I'm still in, I get hurt LOTS.

Same thing applies for Ifrit's dashes and targeted eruptions.

The only possibilities for mages to actually stand a chance against these attacks are:
• To be lucky enough not to be casting the moment these attacks are announced
• To be lucky enough that the server thinks you're out of the circle when it locks you into casting animation
• To be lucky enough to be standing outside the zones the moment they appear (safe from the start).

I know that this last point can be planned to some extent. There are relatively safe spots in the arena, I know them and use them. But you just can't stay entirely still during the whole battle, sometimes you need to edge out of place for your spells to reach a target that isn't quite in range anymore. Sure, you can move out, cast and go back to your safe haven, but sooner or later, that plume's going to hit your RIGHT THERE AND THEN, and there's nothing you'll ever be able to do about it. It has nothing to do with skill or planning, it's just dumb luck and hoping that black box of a server sees the battlefield the same way YOU DO behind that 300ms client-server lag.

My solution:
Add 300ms to the "warning" phase of Ifrit's area based attacks

I swear, this will actually give us a chance to, you know, MOVE OUT. Once in a while, at least.

Luck-based situations are NOT FUN.

Actually there isn't any luck involved: you mage don't need to be lucky to avoid eruption, you just don't cast when you know eruption is coming (every move is readed on a static timer)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

Actually there isn't any luck involved: you mage don't need to be lucky to avoid eruption, you just don't cast when you know eruption is coming (every move is readed on a static timer)

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While it's true Ifrit does only use a move every * seconds it is kind of bullcrap that we have to plan around server latency because that's what is happening here. We have to plan to get out of range 10 seconds before we should just because the servers are so terrible at updating player positioning and because animation lock is such crap.

So yeah it isn't completely luck based (although this will bite you in the ass once or twice no matter how good you are just due to how many times this has to be redone on autopilot in pursuit of 'teh epic loots') BUT SE needs to look into server latency and animation locking because hopefully not all content is going to revolve around placing mages in specific safespots.

The good:
You can usually pre-determine when it happens and not cast. Basically, only cast after Ifrit does his special moves.
You can also have Stoneskin/etc up to just 'shrug' off being hit.
You can also pretend this means you happened to get caught and put up with the attack while valiantly cure your tank.

The bad:
The entire pattern is so pre-determined you can base strategy on it. Like playing chess with someone when you already know their moves.
You no longer have the fun of trying to react and run away.
You still die even if you are so far away you can't see the plumes/cracks/etc.

The fix:
Don't let us die if we are not on the crack/plume/etc... not our fault.. we moved.
Remove animation lock.

When?
2.0 shall hopefully address these problems.

You just have to get used to timing your heals like the DD have to learn not to spam weaponskills. Once Ifrit is glowing he will do weaponskills after 1-2 swipes so don't cast anything if he's already done one swipe. Ifrit won't attack the tank during any move where you have to run so as long as you keep the tank above 2500ish HP or so it is safe to let your tank eat a hit while you wait for a move to come out.

Really it comes down to being patient about healing instead of spamming whenever it is up. It takes some time to get used to it. I've done the fight a lot since its implementation and lately the only time I die is if a pickup player stands behind me without me knowing and I run into their eruption.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Estellios

You just have to get used to timing your heals like the DD have to learn not to spam weaponskills. Once Ifrit is glowing he will do weaponskills after 1-2 swipes so don't cast anything if he's already done one swipe. Ifrit won't attack the tank during any move where you have to run so as long as you keep the tank above 2500ish HP or so it is safe to let your tank eat a hit while you wait for a move to come out.

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In my experience this isn't really viable in the last phase because the damage output on the tank is very high and you usually can't take any breaks from casting. Plumes shouldn't be an issue, the WHM has to move only if things are very seriously going wrong, but Eruptions are pretty much luck based when you play WHM because the tank doesn't ask permission to lose a bunch of HP in the last phase.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frein

In my experience this isn't really viable in the last phase because the damage output on the tank is very high and you usually can't take any breaks from casting.

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This will vary from 'tank' to 'tank'. I believe a WAR tank (which is in vogue nowadays) will take more damage than a PLD (or GLA) tank. So if WAR is tanking you will most likely need to be more aggressive with heals, than a PLD. Of course if you have a NIN/WAR tank you hardly ever have to heal.

>.>
<.<

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frein

In my experience this isn't really viable in the last phase because the damage output on the tank is very high and you usually can't take any breaks from casting. Plumes shouldn't be an issue, the WHM has to move only if things are very seriously going wrong, but Eruptions are pretty much luck based when you play WHM because the tank doesn't ask permission to lose a bunch of HP in the last phase.

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It's doable but it is much more strict, with practice you won't ever be in the middle of casting when eruptions go off. I've done it more than enough times with situations where both healers had to run from eruptions in the final phase and that's a lot more "downtime" than waiting to see what WS he does. It's mostly getting used to the timing, as I'm even able to nuke or toss Curagas and Regens on the DDs at the tail end of the fight while keeping the tank up when the group is mostly made up of my LS. Essentially its both healers and tanks that need to be doing their jobs.

Of course, this also assumes that you don't get completely boned and several back to back Eruptions.

Really the only time your tank should be in danger at all is if both healers are running from Eruptions, and for us the "big breakthrough" was realizing that after all the cracks appeared, us healers could circle back behind Ifrit and heal from there before returning to our spots while the cracks explode.

I've also noticed you can run back while the explosions are still happening. I'm often running through the fire and not getting hurt. In fact, usually when I die, I'm no where near fires...

Why?
The 'server' has already computed your location, figured out damage, and updated everything. Then, when it's got some time, it lets your 'client' know so it can start drawing some fires.

The explosions you see are eye candy and have nothing to do with being hurt or not.. so perfectly safe to run through fire ^.^b

(Yes, this is an unfortunate result of an unfortunate implementation).

just tap the same spell your in midcast with and it will auto cancel. all while running of course.

as I read his complaints, I felt laughing and contempt @ the same time.

Yes, we mages have really hard time dealing with Iffy right now. And as usual, my ping time from IP are around 250 ms, can get much worse if I'm using 3G connection to play this game. So... it's just like Inzoum said, I still got plumed or erupted even tho I'm already outside the damage area.

I'd really had no choice but to rely on StoneSkin and Sanguine Rite (I haven't got Sentinel yet from GLA). At least that would kept me alive between phases and had to sacrifice the next 1-2 phase just to heal and buff myself and pretty much leave the battle to tankers and other DDs who's lucky enough didn't get plumed.

But there's one thing that would be strange enough...
Once my 3G connection can had ping time less than 150 ms. Redid Iffy. And I have easier time avoiding plumes & eruptions. I mean I literally just stepped outside damage zone and it didn't hit me.
Of course, most of the times my ping times are around 250ish and it would be a miracle if I happen to stand outside damage zone long enough so that plumes or eruptions won't hit me.

Sometimes I had to leave command prompt open and hit these "ping 202.67.48.187" all over again (which is Masamune server I think), just to check my current ping time especially if I played this game on 3G connections.

But with the added insults of having only 1 totem for 50 fights, I had to resign from this battle for the time being until I had at least capped any of DoW classes, and maybe upgrade my GLA enuff to have my sentinel.

I just capped my WHM recently, but still unsure if I should participate in Iffy fights again. ;D