Give other classes the versatility that Red Mage enjoys, please

Just a typical day in Eureka Pyros, in a random NM party made up of strangers:

https://i.imgur.com/ND0YzgX.png

Is it a coincidence that 5/8 of the party members are RDM? No! Red Mage is extremely over-represented in Eureka, necessary in savage prog parties and almost-mandatory for solo deep dungeons and lots of other FFXIV content. It's the only class that can insta-rez and self-heal without onerous cooldowns and still put out a good amount of dps while doing so.

Wouldn't it be great if other classes had that same versatility? It's completely possible if Square would relax some of the restrictions and update certain things that are out-of-date:

1) Update potions for ShB and let us use them on other people. Super Potions (HQ) are the current max level potions in the game, and were released in patch 4.3 — over 2 years ago. They will heal 15% up to a max 6k hp. Most lv80 classes are in the 80k - 100k range, so 15% of the lower end would come to about 12k. A new tier of potions to replace Stormblood-era pots should be around twice as potent as Super Potions. Reducing the long cooldowns on these potions and letting us target others to use potions on would benefit everyone and provide a much-needed gil sink. You can target other players to use Spine Drops / Echo Drops on, but not potions. Why?

2) Phoenix Downs should both be usable in combat and stackable. Let tanks or other DPS rez players. Give the phoenix down a long cooldown and cast time if you must. Why are these unique items? If I could buy a stack of 20 phoenix downs and use them in Eureka instead of going RDM, it might break up a little of the monotony and give us a more diverse party composition. If this is OP for lower-level players, create a new tier of phoenix down, why not?

Please don't take this in any way as me advocating for a RDM nerf — buffing all the other classes instead to compensate would vastly improve gameplay and let us help our fellow Eorzeans in times of need, regardless of our current job.

They're not neccessary in savage prog parties. They're just convenient, but I guess that's your entire point lol.

This is exactly what blizzard did in wow and was a large contributor to the decline of the game. The cons of streamlining and homogenizing abilities and skill sets far outweigh the benefits (note: don't even have to go to wow, just look at healers here). So I'll respectfully decline.
It's perfectly fine for some classes to have niches, let RDM enjoy this one. It's not like it's locking anyone out of content, you could play any class you want and nobody would even bat an eye.

Also, many people don't care for rdm in savage prog and it's no longer the wonder class for deep dungeons. Tanks are actually performing great in the later (looking at you gnb). So some info needs updating.

First off, as much as I love RDM, it's what I main, it's what I've done Savage with, it's not the job you are thinking it is.
- Not exactly the job people ask for in Savage. I shouldn't be using Vercure at all and people shouldn't be dying anyway. And as one of my friends say, Embolden is just... There lol
- For PotD/HoH while it IS a popular class to do it with, Tanks are also just as viable in them. Most of the people I know who got to top of HoH used a tank.

I also think that giving everyone the same things defeats the purpose of different jobs. Some jobs are pure dps, some have support.

I personally don't think giving one of the signature aspects of rdm to other classes is a good thing. People complain about homogenisation all the time and you're asking for pretty much that.

I agree that it's silly to be unable to have a stack of phoenix downs but I disagree that they should be usable in combat. This would greatly change the raiding scene in a way that would reduce the difficulty of content. Yes rdm can res and heal without burning cds but they can't sustain that for very long and if they try to their dps suffers tremendously due to lack of mana. With phoenix downs there would be no downside in terms of class resource, and people could choose to res during boss downtime so they do not lose uptime on the boss.

However I would be okay with phoenix down being usable in combat in zones like Eureka content because death there can mean a loss of xp and lvls and it would have zero effect on the raid content.

Just realized, this coming up from Eureka, Pyros no less, and, every other job already has much of the utility RDM has there via logograms. So, problem solved? RDM isn't strictly a good job for its utility. It's just the lazy player's job of choice.

He’s not saying to homogenize the classes though... He’s pointing out that RDM is the one already not homogenized.

In terms of utility pretty much all tanks, ranged dps and melee dps and magic dps minus RDM have the same tools in their kit. RDM has better tools.

I’m all for very unique classes that have to handle situations differently and have their pros and cons. But that’s not the case here, you have a bunch of jobs that are essentially the same then one that has tools which are designed for another role, purely for lore reasons.

If you make potions stronger and usable on others and phoenix downs usable in all content, will I ever press anything else than Glare and Dia? Playing healer will be even more bland.

Or are you talking about Eureka only? But you mentioned lvl 80 and savage.

If you want a RDM's versatility in other content, you have to take a RDM's DPS, too.

RDM has that versatility in exchange for slightly lower overall DPS output (which really isn't as big of a deal as many people make it out to be, but to these people there are only two tiers of DPS in the game -- The Best, and Complete Garbage -- so guess which tier RDM gets lopped into most of the time)


You see a lot of them in Eureka because they aren't having to compete for raid slots, and having multiple sources for raises helps safeguard against XP loss.

wouldnt it be great if we could just get rid of healers, maybe tanks too, make everyone lower dps, able to tank and heal and rez... basically just same things with different skins for weapons

are rdms useful with their rez's? sure, as a healer I certainly dont mind them being in a party if they decide to help.. which they dont always but meh. I am rather against making all classes essentially have the same utilities with different names. at that point I'll return to WoW or any other of a horde of games that already do that in the interests of "balance"

Nice thing about ffxiv is, if you want the utility... play a rdm, its easy

Yes?


I sometimes have multiple jobs of 'insert any other job' in my groups for various kinds of content.


What's the issue?

TC you're conflating RDM's usefulness in a couple optional areas of the game with their usefulness in the rest of the game.

They're useful in places where you're either soloing or operating in a non-traditional party config where you just may not have a healer (i.e. deep dungeons and eureka).

But in regular duties and raids, where there are always dedicated healers, RDMs are much less sought after. As others have said, they shouldn't be healing/raising in those situations. Yes, if stuff hits the fan and there's an RDM available to heal, great. But again, that comes at the cost of less DPS.

I love RDM, and I definitely use it in Eureka. But I don't really use it in duties.