Question regarding patch 5.3 Sleeve Draw

Hi everyone,

I've just returned to FFXIV after a long hiatus and I decided to take up the relatively-new Astrologian class. I have no idea what it was like or how it used to be before patch 5.3 and I just levelled to 70 today (yay! :D)

Introducing: Sleeve Draw. This ability sounded really simple by definition, but after looking at a couple of Astrologian guides and gameplays I noticed that what I was seeing was not aligning with what was being described in-game. I assume that's because they were all made before patch 5.3 (but that's only a month old!)

I am extremely confused. What is the difference between Sleeve Draw and Draw, aside from the fact that Sleeve Draw's cooldown is SIX TIMES longer than Draw's?

Do you use Sleeve Draw to guarantee a seal you don't already have? Like how Draw is completely random, and if you don't get the seal you need you either Minor Arcana it or Redraw it? Is that why Sleeve Draw's cooldown is so slow?

I see a lot of talk and frustration with all of the changes being made to Astrologian and I don't understand any of it... but I want to. :(

In 5.0-5.2 Sleeve Draw would draw a random card. After playing that card, you'd automatically draw another card. After playing that second card, you'd automatically draw a third. There was a 15 secs time limit on the automatic draws. None of the seals were guaranteed. Three sequential cards absolutely justified the three minute CD.

Players, in particular console players, found that the rapid targeting of allies to play cards on was too much of a hassle and complained about it. In response, in 5.3 SE reduced Sleeve Draw to a single card with a seal that you do not currently have. This reduces the number of cards that need to be played in rapid succession. This also means that AST cannot get enough seals for Divination at the start of a fight unless the party waits at least 30 secs before pulling to let Draw come off CD. It also reduces AST's rdps contribution by reducing it from 18 cards every six minutes (nine Minor Arcana) to 14 cards every six minutes (five Minor Arcana).

There's a strong case to be made that this change does nothing to address the root of the problem. At its core, the problem with cards is that party members need to be manually targeted to play them and that the UI is not designed in a way that makes this easy for controllers. M+KB can directly and immediately target specific party members using either the cursor or the F1-8 keys while the controller needs to navigate down party members one at a time in order to reach a specific player. The change to Sleeve Draw reduces how often controller players run into this issue but does not fix it.

There are only two solutions to the controller problem: 1) recognize that the controller is an inferior interface in this regard and drop support, or 2) change cards so that targeting individual players is no longer necessary. The first isn't going to happen for a long list of reasons. The second could be implemented in many ways, but SE doesn't care enough about healers to take the necessary time to understand the problem and find ways to fix it.

The most commonly proposed solution is to revert to the SB card system where many cards either don't get played or are augmented to buff the entire party without needing to target players individually. Another solution would be to introduce "smart cards" that are applied to the nearest relevant target if an ally is not targeted. This would grant precise control to those willing to play with the party list while still letting less skilled players apply cards without needing to fight their UI. A third possible solution would be to put Play on the GCD so that players have more time to target their allies. This would require a dramatic increase in card potency to compensate for the lost Malefic. There is no reason that several of these changes could not be combined.

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Originally Posted by Jaelommiss

In 5.0-5.2 Sleeve Draw would draw a random card. After playing that card, you'd automatically draw another card. After playing that second card, you'd automatically draw a third. There was a 15 secs time limit on the automatic draws. None of the seals were guaranteed. Three sequential cards absolutely justified the three minute CD.

Players, in particular console players, found that the rapid targeting of allies to play cards on was too much of a hassle and complained about it. In response, in 5.3 SE reduced Sleeve Draw to a single card with a seal that you do not currently have. This reduces the number of cards that need to be played in rapid succession. This also means that AST cannot get enough seals for Divination at the start of a fight unless the party waits at least 30 secs before pulling to let Draw come off CD. It also reduces AST's rdps contribution by reducing it from 18 cards every six minutes (nine Minor Arcana) to 14 cards every six minutes (five Minor Arcana).

There's a strong case to be made that this change does nothing to address the root of the problem. At its core, the problem with cards is that party members need to be manually targeted to play them and that the UI is not designed in a way that makes this easy for controllers. M+KB can directly and immediately target specific party members using either the cursor or the F1-8 keys while the controller needs to navigate down party members one at a time in order to reach a specific player. The change to Sleeve Draw reduces how often controller players run into this issue but does not fix it.

There are only two solutions to the controller problem: 1) recognize that the controller is an inferior interface in this regard and drop support, or 2) change cards so that targeting individual players is no longer necessary. The first isn't going to happen for a long list of reasons. The second could be implemented in many ways, but SE doesn't care enough about healers to take the necessary time to understand the problem and find ways to fix it.

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This answered a LOT of my questions. I always forget that such a large portion of the FFXIV player base uses controllers. Thank you for such a thorough explanation, seriously!

With all of that being said, how should Sleeve Draw be weaved into AST rotation? Do I use it first (because of its cooldown) and then Draw? Do I use it after Draw or after using all of my Redraw charges? Do I use it and abuse it?

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Originally Posted by smoochiepook

This answered a LOT of my questions. I always forget that such a large portion of the FFXIV player base uses controllers. Thank you for such a thorough explanation, seriously!

With all of that being said, how should Sleeve Draw be weaved into AST rotation? Do I use it first (because of its cooldown) and then Draw? Do I use it after Draw or after using all of my Redraw charges? Do I use it and abuse it?

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-0:30 Draw
-0:01.5 Malefic > Lightspeed
+0.01.0 Combust > Play > Draw
+0:03.5 Malefic > Play > Sleeve Draw
+0:06.0 Malefic > Play > Divination

I rarely use Redraw during my opener. Delaying the opening Divination will throw you out of alignment with other raid buffs both during in the opener and later in the fight. Depending on your exact comp and if you can double weave without clipping you may be able to Redraw your second card once. Sleeve after Draw in the opener increases the chance of a three seal div from 33% to 67%, or from 40% to 93% with one Redraw.

Use Sleeve Draw on CD after that. If you notice that Sleeve Draw will be available before your next Divination you can plan around that to save some Redraws for later. Your Divinations will line up with a regular Draw (2, 4 mins). Generally you will want to Minor Arcana that card in order to maximize the damage bonus. Card damage multiplies with Divination and other raid buff damage boosts. Your 6 minute Divination will line up with both Draw and Sleeve Draw. Your timings will likely have shifted a little bit by now. It depends on the exact fight, but I aim to Draw, then Divination, then Play (often double weaved with Div), then Sleeve Draw. If Draw is delayed too much I will Sleeve Draw > Divination > Play > Draw.

My general card play looks something like this:
0:00 Draw + Divination + Minor Arcana
0:30 Draw + Play (one seal)
1:00 Draw + Redraw if necessary + Play (two seals)
1:30 Draw + Redraw if necessary
1:55 Play (three seals)
2:00 Draw + Divination + Minor Arcana

If Sleeve Draw will be available in between Divinations then I change to:
0:00 Draw + Divination + Minor Arcana
0:30 Draw + Play (one seal)
1:00 Draw + Redraw if necessary + Play (two seals) + Sleeve Draw + Play (three seals)
1:30 Draw
1:57 Minor Arcana
2:00 Draw + Divination + Minor Arcana
By holding the card at 1:30 I have an extra card during Divination.

If it's a ranged card I will play it on the DNC around five seconds before my Divination because Standard + Technical Steps are massive damage. Tech is a huge 2 minute CD like Divination so it lines up perfectly. If I don't have a DNC I try to buff the BLM when I see them starting their fire phase (watch the MP and cast names. Full MP and Fire III means big fire damage is coming). A RDM can be buffed at the same time as DNC because their 2 min CD Embolden boosts physical damage and they try to get their melee combo in at that time. I don't play with a SMN frequently. If there's a Bahamut or Pheonix toss them a card. I think MCH also lines up with 2 mins, but I haven't raided with one before. BRD is on an 80 second rotation. I'll toss them a card if I see Raging Strikes, but otherwise leave them alone.

I don't know as much about melee. My static's DRG does similar damage to our SAM so I give cards to whichever one has Dance Partner that pull. DRG has burst CDs on 90 and 120 secs CDs. If you buff a DRG at 6 mins they'll be your best friend. A cursory look at this tier's logs shows that SAM seems more constant. Lower during DRG's bursts, higher during DRG's lows. Looking at some more logs, MNK is high around 2 mins and gradually declines until the next 2 mins burst. NIN spikes hard every minute and is low in between that.

These are just general rules for equally performing players. Last tier I had such a strong BLM that his low points usually exceeded our DNC's burst phases. If you're interested in maximizing your card output you'll need to assess the specific players you have using certain logging websites. Unless you have a static it'll be hard to do. Without a fixed roster you'd need to assess party members between pulls. It also doesn't matter 99% of the time. Unless you're specifically aiming for high parses or struggling with zero death enrages you'll probably not notice the difference.

You'll also need to adapt to dynamic factors as well. If melee suffer 2 GCDs of downtime because of a mechanic you'll need to hold your card. If your stronger dps has weakness then you'll usually want to buff someone else. When a NIN in the party you'll want to save your 0:30 and 1:30 cards until 0:55 and 1:55 to ensure they line up with Trick Attack.

I'm going to leave it here because I'm starting to veer into raid leadership and buff coordination. As an AST you'll need to be aware of what damage boosts other classes offer, when they are available, and how to make the best possible to use of them. If you're interested in reviewing some logs so you know what to look for in the future or if you want more information on aligning cards with raid buffs, contact me on Discord. Qina#4625.

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Originally Posted by smoochiepook

relatively-new Astrologian class.

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Yes, only 5 years old :P

Tangential question: I have a macro crossbar that targets and plays on a specific party member and then flips back to my main crossbar. When I'm playing in a full party, I can tap R1 to access my crossbar press one button to target and play on that member, and it swaps back.

Does this actually end up clipping if I double weave like how Ninja Mudras use to work, or is this instance viable with AST? The current drawback seems to be mistiming it so that play never goes off, but I still flip back to my main hotbar.

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Originally Posted by Atmaweapon510

Tangential question: I have a macro crossbar that targets and plays on a specific party member and then flips back to my main crossbar. When I'm playing in a full party, I can tap R1 to access my crossbar press one button to target and play on that member, and it swaps back.

Does this actually end up clipping if I double weave like how Ninja Mudras use to work, or is this instance viable with AST? The current drawback seems to be mistiming it so that play never goes off, but I still flip back to my main hotbar.

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Macro's are unable to queue skills, which means if the precise milisecond that Macro is trying to play the card, you are unable to (still in animation lock or have just used another oGCD <0.5~1s ago depending on latency) it will fail. Then the next line of the macro that swaps your hotbar back will kick in.

You could mitigate this a little by repeating the /ac "play" <#> line a few times, so that it will have multiple chances to get it off before you swap back.

Otherwise play around with different set ups.
I don't use macro's for anything that targets party members on AST. Instead I macro the DPS skills to target of target.
e.g.
/ac "Malefic" <tt>
/ac "Malefic" <t>
It will first try to use it on my targets target, if that's not viable, it'll use it on my target. (again, I repeat each one a few times)
This way I'm always targeting a party member (can focus target the boss to watch for cast times) and have become more proficient at quickly playing cards by tabbing down the party list.
All macro set ups have a downside, and mine is that my dps skills have a slight delay, but this isn't a huge deal because AST does the least personal dps of any job, and any dps lost by the slight delay on Malefic is made up for by not fumbling card plays.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Macro's are unable to queue skills, which means if the precise milisecond that Macro is trying to play the card, you are unable to (still in animation lock or have just used another oGCD <0.5~1s ago depending on latency) it will fail. Then the next line of the macro that swaps your hotbar back will kick in.

You could mitigate this a little by repeating the /ac "play" <#> line a few times, so that it will have multiple chances to get it off before you swap back.

Otherwise play around with different set ups.
I don't use macro's for anything that targets party members on AST. Instead I macro the DPS skills to target of target.
e.g.
/ac "Malefic" <tt>
/ac "Malefic" <t>
It will first try to use it on my targets target, if that's not viable, it'll use it on my target. (again, I repeat each one a few times)
This way I'm always targeting a party member (can focus target the boss to watch for cast times) and have become more proficient at quickly playing cards by tabbing down the party list.
All macro set ups have a downside, and mine is that my dps skills have a slight delay, but this isn't a huge deal because AST does the least personal dps of any job, and any dps lost by the slight delay on Malefic is made up for by not fumbling card plays.

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For Anyone reading this in the future, while doing the macro stated is extremely convenient it is not Optimal. I used this for a long time but after it being pointed out that I was actually slowing my GCD with it. I went and tested it. I ran a 3m test on a striking dummy, keeping track of total casts, and found I was losing about 1 whole GCD per minute.

If doing this however helps you to keep uptime while weaving, and therefor brings you more GCDs per minute, then by all means use it! However I would recommend a targetting macro or keybind instead. I use M+KB and I keybound my F key to the first Tank and Shift F key to second tank. This allows for very fast switching for emergency heals and lets me move away from the macro above.

For controllers... idk. I tried and I just cannot play on controller so you will need to find controller guides to help with this, sorry.

I do realize this comment already states that, but figured Id expand on that and give alternatives available.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoochiepook

This answered a LOT of my questions. I always forget that such a large portion of the FFXIV player base uses controllers. Thank you for such a thorough explanation, seriously!

With all of that being said, how should Sleeve Draw be weaved into AST rotation? Do I use it first (because of its cooldown) and then Draw? Do I use it after Draw or after using all of my Redraw charges? Do I use it and abuse it?

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Currently, Sleeve Draw is used in the opener as such:

*simplified ideal opener*
Draw (Pre Draw 30 sec) -> *other buff setup* -> Malefic 1.5 secs before countdown hits 0 -> Lightspeed ->[ Combust ]-> Play (First seal)-> Draw ->[ Malefic ]-> Play (2nd seal) -> Sleeve Draw ->[ Malefic ]-> Play -> Divination

Use Draw's card first, but wait 1-2 GCDs after being in combat to play it - this ensures the game registers you in combat - this is important because if you hit the enemy and play the card after, the game doesn't register you as "in combat", so you don't actually get a seal in time, thus throwing off your divination timing overall.

Sleeve Draw will always guarantee a 5% Divination when used with Draw. You want to use Sleeve Draw last because it guarantees the last seal to be different, so it has a higher chance of making sure Divination is a 6% increase instead of a 5% increase.

You don't want to consume all your redraw charges in your opener. The idea of using Divination (3-5 GCDs in combat) early instead of redrawing for the right seal is that you don't want to delay your Divination too much or everyone's openers and skills will misalign with Divination, causing the super high damage skills to not get that Divination buff, so even if you do get a 6% increase, it becomes weaker than the 5% one because of the number of skills not being buffed by it. This will get worse further down the line because once Divination's cooldown is set, it means if everyone also use their skills at the right timing and do well, they will ALWAYS miss the Divination buff window because their cooldowns come up slightly earlier than yours. It's better to take the 5% buff and then get the 6% later in your 2nd divination than misalign the timing from the beginning.

The ideal opener can vary a bit since some jobs take 3 GCDs to begin their burst damage and others take 5 GCDs to begin their burst damage iirc. This might change, but usually you want to activate your first Divination within 3-5 GCDs.

Tbh with how it works now, I'd prefer it to line up with Divination. It kinda doesn't make sense that it's 3mins, an oversight likely. But initial sleeve draw for ShB was very stressful during openers and would require a bit of weaving for three cards. Now it's a guarantee different seal so making it line up with divination is better IMO because if the normal draw doesn't give you a different seal, then you have Sleeve Draw to rely on.

This new sleeve draw was a total slap in the face again people who complain about stormblood cards like again why whm/sch instead, I play on ps4 and dealt with the heavy rng of stormblood fine and had no issues with it and loved it to bits. Perhaps its just a natural thing of me able to flip bars back and forth and summarize both bars where every thing Idk, yes friends did wonder how I did it but I just handle it fine, again as I state before shadow bringers rng is way more annoying than stormblood rng because all the cards to the same yawn boring repetitive thing and lacks any option compared to its stormblood counter part where it has 3 functions for all cards that did 6 different things where you can aoe it, make it longer lasting durablity for next card or increase its potency. To rub salt on the bad wound aint nothing more annoying than you having to technically wait at least 10 seconds server tick on start of a fight to throw your card, I mean you can asap if you want but 90% of the time you throwing card too early = no seal even count but the person does get the card buff regardless at least but still that is annoying.

I get a card I want for my tank or dps but guess what, oh no I already have that seal and need the other ones, so redraw or maybe just meh and minor the card . This divination system with this now gutted lame sleeve draw really just blew up the fun of rng on ast, only thing keeping me for now playing it is that its spell casting short times,great shields and regens until sage comes since I prefer barrier healing. Old sleeve draw even with this garbage shadow bringer card system at least made it a little tolerable, I would have divination ready then open up a fight with sleeve draw giving all ladies/crowns to the entire team and oh boy if a ninja in the party see how the bosses get rip up from 100% to 70 or 60%, sure this new sleeve draw now makes it 100% you get the missing seal you need but I didnt care for that again if people hated rng of ast card system specially card of stormblood easy fix was just play whm or scholar or invest in a pc and play 14 on it instead. I loved when my hands was put to work with the controller on ps4 now its just uh right whacko boring. Too much stress for too little award with shadow bringer card system vs stormblood cards. Also it just occur to me I do not even use undraw since shadow bringers release, at times I even forgot it exist as a skill due to redraw and minor arcana lol, as how I forget fluid exists on whm.