Just kind of a fun question imo. I'm "new" to the game. I have 361 hours but still haven't finished the MSQ so I haven't gotten to see any end game tanking yet.
To my question, which tank has the best style and why do you think that?
For me, my favorite tank is the Drk. I love the big sword, I love all the animations and hey, its a Dark Knight which are my favorite classes in about any Lore I come across.
My 2nd favorite is the Paladin. When I play one it feels like a tank. I have always loved shields. Because I tend to love shields, I think they are also the best looking class. Also a very close 2nd favorite class across all Lore I have read.
Flashiest tank to me is the Gunbreaker and also the one I like watching the most. The seem fluid and graceful.
Warrior is probably my least favorite tank to watch, although I do enjoy playing my little warrior. They scream brute force and get out of the way of my axe. Nothing flashy about that or fun to watch.
Tanking with style
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09-13-2020, 11:40 AMselect20Tanking with style
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09-13-2020, 12:49 PMDRKoftheAzureGo with Gunbreaker because you missed ALL of the cooler Dark Knight Skill animation back when Heavensward/3.0 was still a thing, if you want to tank with style...Quote:
Originally Posted by select20
Paladin is also a good choice.
Warrior I could care less about...
TL;DR version on my thoughts on Dark Knight is I don't like how boring they made Dark Knight by turning it into a "Resource Dumping For Damage" class, which was not how Dark Knight was designed when Heavensward launched... -
09-13-2020, 01:30 PMHierro
When it comes to dungeons, I'd say WAR is perhaps the tank that does the job with the most flair, and that's for two reasons: burst damage and burst healing.
It's stylish as heck to go from 20% HP to full from nascent and using chaotic cyclone. It's stylish as heck to have a huge crit appear on screen with a notable drop in monster HP. -
09-13-2020, 01:49 PMLyth
WAR is the BLM of tanks. Ponderously slow, punctuated with explosions. Meat and potatoes. The antithesis of style. That's not a bad thing, but it's not what OP is looking for.
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09-13-2020, 07:04 PMDRKoftheAzureBoth WAR AND DRK are the BLMs of tanks. Slow, boring, oGCDs with long animations that last longer than the GCD but are interrupted by the GCD making the class look weak as well which already says a lot about WAR and DRK because they are slow and weak, other defensives become obsolete by the time the get a specific skill and are just resource dumping classes, though PLD is also a resource dumping class by the time it gets Holy Spirit but that's a whole other design issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyth
GNB has some neat downtime optimization tricks with for when No Mercy burst is almost back up with Demon Slaughter combo and you need to be away from the boss but need to be ready to do your burst and is more of a resource management tank.
And on the topic of PLD being a resource dumping class via Requiescat means they need to make Clemency oGCD and not cost MP during Requiescat effect only. -
09-14-2020, 05:05 AMselect20I already like my DrK I think for my main. I like the playstle tbh. It is fun to see different thoughts though.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure
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09-14-2020, 06:29 AMLyth?Quote:
Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure
DRK APM is only marginally behind GNB, even after the massive simplification of the past two expansions. It only feels relatively slow because the HW version had nearly double the APM of either of these.
WAR is genuinely slow. The wind-up big hits are an aesthetic choice. -
09-14-2020, 08:35 AMSnowVixif you're looking at aesthetics, dark knight's weaponskills feel weighty. it's kind of nice, they feel like you're swinging a sword the size of a you around.Quote:
Originally Posted by select20
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09-14-2020, 11:38 AMHierroyou planned this all along, didn't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyth
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09-14-2020, 12:04 PMDRKoftheAzureDRK had a VERY DIFFERENT playstyle back in Heavensward that only one aspect of it's playstyle is only replicated on GNB...Quote:
Originally Posted by select20
The other playstyle was lost to Shadowbringers flood of simplification, which it kinda shared with WAR and PLD, though WAR was more designed around stance dancing and PLD the toggle that you see today with GNB.
Once you get GNB to 80 along with the other tanks, you will probably hate DRK more...
Doesn't excuse for how weak both actually are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyth
More like swinging around a longer PLD sword that has a little more weight to it until you get the bigger weapons, and the aesthetics of the weaponskills just clash with how big the sword an actually get yet the game still pretends you are swinging around your level 30 claymore... Spinning Slash felt like you were using enough force to get the job the with Power Slash having a bit more weight and flare to it(the dark energy blast after the downard slash really felt more DRK than current DRK), Dark Passenger was multiple energy blasts in a straight line(again way more DRK than current DRK) Scourge and Delirium weaponskill animation were pretty alright(not sure WHY they haven't brought those skills back and reworked the 2 into a full combo to be used after Hard Slash), Living Shadow is a waste of an actual burst window for DRK(Though I would change buff it's duration by 3 seconds for it use Dark Passenger after Plunge for what), much like DRKs current Discount Fell Cleave spam and discount Holy Spirit spam(if you can even get the MP and "Dark Arts" proc for such a feat) making Edge/Flood of Darkness/Shadow and Bloodspiller/Quietus be boring and making you wish you had a second combo to use as well as making you wish Dark Passenger came back on a 30 second recast timer, as well as wish Carve and Spit and Abyssal Drain came off cooldown faster or have a shorter recast timer because of how bored you are with the animations and you're only other combo is Unleash -> Stalwart Soul(you don't even get Stalwart Soul UNTIL LEVEL 72).Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowVix
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09-14-2020, 02:10 PMAnotherPerson
When I started tanking, I chose GNB first as my favorite.
WAR has its unique charm and lots of fell cleave. Inner release and most of the skills having this shrug off animation felt pretty wild and beastly to me and was my close second.
Post lv 70, DRK is my top choice, followed by WAR/PLD. ShB has especially cemented DRK as my number one tank. At first I didn't like the slow wind-up attack animations, but it grown on me and I can appreciate how it felt in ShB. -
09-14-2020, 02:45 PMVyrerus
For style it depends on what you like. Gritty/tough animations, go with Gunbreaker. Pearlescent, nacreous animations, go with PLD. Shadowy and sensual, go with DRK.
DRK's lost the most animations over the years, and PLD's never really lost any(I don't count the loss of certain defensives because they basically just Hallowed -1). Of course, DRK has also gained new animations this expansion... and if it still had the Power Slash combo, I'd probably never play anything else.
WAR's animations suffer from basically being a lack of animation. Outside of its combos there's Fell Cleave and Decimate with truly noticeable animations, but Steel/Chaotic Cyclone basically get drowned out by the direct crits appearing on screen. I guess if you like staring at the damage text, then that's a style all its own, but honestly the animations themselves are mildly disappointing. It's lost the second most animations across tanks. Why PLD gets to to keep everything and only get better every expansion is beyond me, but there are other jobs like that as well so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
GNB's single target rotation is very sexy and always feels fun at 70+. It's very cool looking. Its AOE rotation on the other hand is dog shit from an aesthetics stand point, since it's literally the same animation twice(one's CW other is CCW, whoopie), followed by that same animation, but now with booms, when you get the Powder Gauge AOE in the 70s. I kinda wish they'd lower the recast on Bowshock, as it's really cool looking, but GNB doesn't need to get any stronger.
PLD's got some of the coolest animations now. I've never liked Royal Authority, it's too prissy for my tastes, but Atonement, Requiescat, Confiteor, Holy Circle, and Goring Blade really get my groove on. -
09-14-2020, 03:51 PMDRKoftheAzureYeah it's mostly animations that tend to sell a class more over the others...Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
That is a mood right there, though "balance comes before fun" pretty much killed DRK for me...Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
I never really liked WAR... only leveled it in Heavensward for it's cross class skills for DRK and boosted it to 60 and the grind the rest of the way... Never liked Fell Cleave spam and it killed my immersion of the class and any other class with Fell Cleave spam(PLD was the First with Holy Spirit Spam though I kind give PLD a pass though I do not like how the WAR and DRK got their own versions and DRK getting 2 discounted version)Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
Actually PLD lost Shield Swipe but kept Shield Bash... that one is beyond me...Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
Move Continuation to level 60, but lower its potencies by 100, make a trait that boosts the potencies by 100 per skill, and the level 90 trait boosts it even further by another 100 per skill. But GNB animations really sold me to play GNB and it's playstyle. As for Bow Shock I expect a trait that lowers its recast in the next expansion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
Sword Oath spam could flow really nicely if you got Atonement spam at level 50 PLD quest, Rage of Halone replaces the last 2 Atonements at level 60 PLD quest, and Royal Authority replaces the second Rage of Halone at level 70 PLD quest(requires bringing back Savage Blade to actually work as how I described)Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
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09-14-2020, 05:29 PMselect20
Crazy to hear from you all how much has changed
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09-14-2020, 06:05 PMDRKoftheAzureYou don't even know the half of it...Quote:
Originally Posted by select20
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09-14-2020, 07:40 PMselect20Also, ArianeEwah's sig makes so much sense and why I like tanking so much here so far. I feel like you have to think about what you're doing. Which rotation, which skill to use when. Other MMO's I have tanked in a lot, feel very dumbed down and makes me bored. Of course, speaking from the point of view where my DrK is only lvl68. But so far, very much enjoy it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure
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09-14-2020, 08:48 PMDRKoftheAzureYou'll get bored of it Bloodspiller spam really fast, along with Souleater spam... only to realize that no fun is allowed when trying to play as DRK, and are forced to play as the devs want you to play with DRK...Quote:
Originally Posted by select20
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09-14-2020, 10:26 PMselect20I'll make sure I level another tank or two as back up then to keep things fresh.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure
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09-15-2020, 03:08 AMDRKoftheAzureCan't go wrong with GNB as that second single target combo is enough to keep it fresh once you get Continuation skill at level 70, you can also try some flashy custom combo stuff with Sonic Break since it's a GCD with a separate recast timer(like Gnashing Fang but unlike Gnashing Fang, Sonic Break doesn't cost a cartridge) into Bow Shock and if you are comfortable with double weaving Danger/Blasting Zone, though this is mostly oGCD stuff you are allowed to do custom combo stuff with GCD since oGCD doesn't interrupt combo stuff(though Sonic Break and Gnashing Fang combo do not interrupt other combos but regular GCD combos will interrupt Gnashing Fang combo) and there is some tricks you can do with Demon Slaughter combo if you are required to move away from the boss but No Mercy burst is almost back up if you think you won't be able to finish a full Solid Barrel combo in time.Quote:
Originally Posted by select20
On a more depressing note some IRL stuff hit REALLY HARD and it wasn't COVID-19 that's for sure... so my posts will definitely slow down like an I unsubbed... my sister's cat just turned 15 years old(90 in cat years) his(the cat) health just started deteriorate starting with his kidneys, and he's been around since 2005, and family that actually happened to not move away far enough are wanting to say their goodbyes to him as well in person before he suffers too much... nobody probably cares at this point considering my past posts, but yeah... -
09-15-2020, 03:09 PMLammas
I really don't understand why a new player liking a job needs to be told how glorious it was 4-5 years ago and how dull and boring you think it is now and how they'll hate it soon enough.
I don't like ShB Bard so I don't play it anymore even though I loved that job in HW and SB. I don't see the need to shove that feeling down everyones throat whenever Bard is mentioned even in passing somewhere trying to drag them down too...
As for the OP question I prefer DRK and GNB. The aesthetics of both are great. I like gunblade more than the greatsword as a weapon but on the other hand I prefer the shadow / abyssal abilities to GNBs explosions. PLD and WAR don't really grab me and never did. -
09-15-2020, 03:28 PMYeol
If you're gonna play all tanks at the basicl level, you'll get bored.
Trying to optimize your gameplay will make all tanks interesting. Regardless of what people say about DRK, I actually enjoy playing it.
DRK is more about managing both MP and blood gauge to maximize your damage rather than Bloodspiller spam.
Do not overcap MP and blood gauge. It's a DPS loss. Doing this is easier said than done.
You need to know how much MP and Blood your abilities generate and how far you are from overcapping them.
Which phases are you going to hold your resources and which phase are you going to spend them for maximum dps gain (Burst/Buff windows).
Also, keep in mind that you need your resources for The Blakist Night and Living Shadow.
DRK also has a tight Blood Weapon window in which you need to land 5 weapon skills while it's up in order to maximize your MP and Blood gain, else you'll be generating less MP and Blood which will lead to lower DPS. Doing this might require you to have a certain amount of skill speed.
If DRK was just about 1-2-3 and hit Delirium followed by Bloodspiller spam, the job is going to be brain dead easy but it isn't.
DRK is more about resource management and deciding when to spend them for benefit.
I would recommend reading in-depth guide about all tanks before deciding which one to play :)
Here is a website to help with that: https://saltedxiv.com/ -
09-16-2020, 03:42 AMOdinelStarreiDude, come on. Not every single thread that even mentions DRK needs to immediately transition into a "DRK sucks now" diatribe. This is a thread about aesthetics, don't come in here and bring everybody down in a thread that isn't even relevant to DRK specific gameplay complaints. This is why "People complaining about people complaining about DRK" is becoming a thing now. If the OP wants to play DRK and enjoys it, let him actually do it and make that decision himself on whether to drop it at it's skill ceiling (if he even wants to reach it) instead of pushing torwards negativity on the outset of his experience, the guy doesn't even have TBN yet. I don't even agree with many of the things the person above me is saying about resource management, and probably hate DRK more than anyone on Earth, but this isn't the thread to talk about it in.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure
Sorry stuff isn't going well for you. Don't think it is for many people right now. World's not going too well atm. -
09-16-2020, 04:35 AMshao32actually you don't manage you resources at all or better say everything is so scriped that it's not real management, MP generation is so low you end throwing all your MP under raid buffs every 60 seconds and blood have no management whatsoever since you use bloodspiller as soon you hit 50 blood and that's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeol
DRK gameplay and optimization is reducen on use all your MP and oGCD that have a convenient 30/60s recast under raid buffs every minute and then you spend around 50s doing 1-2-3 and bloodspiller delirium spam with a borderline salted heart that have laughable impact right now, so ppl are not wrong when they say DRK is mostly only that, a job how spend large amounts of time doing absolutely nothing but soul eater and bloodspiller waiting to trow all his oGCD every 60 seconds and repeat, true management was in the past right now it's just load and shoot. -
09-16-2020, 08:56 PMYeolThat is almost very FFXIV Job now. Each jobs just does it differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by shao32
DRK 2nd combo gives MP, 3rd combo gives Blood. Blood weapon gives both MP and Blood.
If you are not keeping uptime as DRK you lose two resources not one.
If you can't constantly hit 5 GCDs in blood weapon, your are losing two resources not one.
and once that happens, almost your entire MP and blood need to be recalculated for the entire fight.
Because you missed a couple of hits before boss jumped away or missed few hits inside blood weapon, you will not be spending as much MP and blood inside raid buffs. You'll not have enough MP for TBN in some phases. Your living shadow will get delayed by and an extra combo or two, and it gets out of sync from raid buffs. Bye bye DPS.
Once you mess up, you have to keep in mind to not spend everything when they are available. You have to check if TBN is needed soon or if living shadow is coming off CD. This is the recalculation part i'm talking about. Even the duration of the fight affects the way you generate/spend your resources (example: killing ads faster)
All jobs in the game get punished. People tend to think low of DRK because of "just load and shoot" mentality. Until they realize they did less Bloodspiller and EoS in the fight.
They cared more about spending than generating. Since current DRK MP and blood generation is low, making mistakes makes it even lower. -
09-16-2020, 10:13 PMSpartan_Aoues
Hmm in terms of aesthetics, i think war/dk, in terms of performance, i think pal/gun. gl hope u enjoy the game
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09-16-2020, 10:48 PMshao32Every single job in the game is afected with the rule of always be casting, hit all your GCD under your buff windows and keep everything on recast, DRK is not special just bcs he have 2 resources in 1 combo, if you mess up you need to recalculate for the next buff window not the entire fight at all, thats with all respect a over exageration considering how little resources generate right now and how wide the downtime is, you have plenty of time to know if you should use a edge early or not depending of your resources aviable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeol
If you missed a few hits before the boss jump thats nothing compared to start no mercy window with GNB and miss everything with no return or inner release Window that cost WAR more dps and infuriate CD reduction, DRK mistakes are way less severe than the other tanks due how the job have no inner mechanics whatssoever to keep in check, resource generation and spending and keep GCD always runing is a norm for everyone as you say and at contrary than others jobs like the rest of the tank who have to delay the whole burst window or lose it complety DRK biggest mistake is only not having living shadow have his full duration uptime since everything else can be recolocated easily after and prepare your resources for the next buff window resulting in mimnimun loss compared to the other tanks mechanics, there is a reason why is so easy archive high score with DRK on certain web.
DRK basic (and mostly advanced) optimization is reduced on hit 5 GCD under BW and Delirium and keep everything on recast wich thats a task that only happens during 10s every min, not in vain DRK is considering with WAR the most brain dead jobs of the game right now by the raiding comunity due the little requeriments of optimization and the absurd amounts of downtime to do whatever you need, in fact DRK is picked bcs TBN is just to strong and you have so little to do with the job you can complete savage on easy mode focusing way more on combat mechanics at the same time many says the job is boring to play when you master it. -
09-17-2020, 03:33 AMYeol
That is what i’m trying to point out here.
All jobs have different ways to optimize and all jobs get punished. I wish people would stop acting as if DRK does not have anything to worry about and you can just face roll with it.
It does not matter which job gets punished most or which job requires more work to optimize. What I tried to show in my previous post is that DRK has it’s own challenges too. But people seem to always want to brag that they are playing the more punishing/harder job and making the less punishing seem bad while in reality it isn't. All jobs have some sort of mechanic to handle.
Finding a job boring or fun is subjective and not a fact.
The fact is all jobs have ways to optimize and things to look out for.
If anything, the real problem with some tanks is their identity and being very similar in terms of tanking.
Thank you for clearing my point even better. -
09-17-2020, 04:08 AMshao32My point is indeed every job have to optimice something but DRK kit it's so poor made due lack of sinergy with his own kit and having dead mechanics wasting space that the job have way less things to optimice and fail compared to the other 16 jobs of the game no matter how you look at it making it the most easy job of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeol
not trying to make you feel bad or something like that but DRK have no defense posible in terms of skill required to archive his maximun potential, it's saddly just an easy job to run with now and that's it. -
09-17-2020, 05:40 AMSpartan_Aoues
Can someone do a compensation between hw drk and shb drk? Or just link a video explaining the key differences?
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09-17-2020, 07:20 AMshao32here is a guide of the job then back in HWhttps://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...k-Knight-GuideQuote:
Originally Posted by Spartan_Aoues
to make a resume DRK was a tactical job with sustained dps, back then DRK generate way more MP and his APM (actions per minute) was way higher with blood weapon uptime being more bigger and ofering a skill speed buff.
the job work witha priority system on both his MP usage and his GCD usage, on MP was:
1º dark arts + carve and spit
2º dark passenger
3º dark arts + soul eater
and for his GCD considering the MP one first was:
1º dark arts + soul eater
2º if not enough MP for dark arts + soul eater then delirium
darkside use to consume your MP by ticks when activated making his MP management constant and dinamic and on top of all that DRK have the parry mechanics, if DRK parry an attack have the chance to reset low blow and reprisal amking it alwyas being in the MT spot.
it use to have scourge wich was a dot that you always keep on apart of salted heart, in resume DRK use to have 2 combos, 2 priority systems on resources usage manipulating his GCD, a dot to manage and parry mechanics all in a constant management of his resources to never run out of MP or darkside will fade off or overcap it, very dinamic and very DRK theme for no mention his aoe rotation was so satisfactory.
correct me someone if i miss something. -
01-25-2021, 05:24 PMWarpaint-57
[/QUOTE] Warrior is probably my least favorite tank to watch, although I do enjoy playing my little warrior. They scream brute force and get out of the way of my axe. Nothing flashy about that or fun to watch.[/QUOTE]
This is why WAR is my main toon and love. She is the sweetest little meatshield in existence and will rage out in a heartbeat to fight.
She lives for the smoke, all the goddamn smoke and she know it won't kill her cause she has her allies and her party so she can take a beating. -
01-25-2021, 11:55 PMItMeI really like PLD's style. It's got a really "dig your heels in" kinda style. I love how it can help keep a party together kicking and screaming through things like clemency as a prog is falling apart, to using cover on clerics to keep them alive. And having the one true invuln really adds to this. Paladin just oozes "you ain't gonna stop me, no slowing me down" especially as it's burst phase is ranged so it can disengage from the boss and still keep hammering it.Quote:
Originally Posted by select20