Proposal to Add Back Stuff to MCH, and to fix Wildfire

I like current MCH, but miss many of its old mechanics, and feel like there is room to add them back. Wildfire has also been a problem for some time. Hoping SE sees this proposal.

Wildfire fix: Since Wildfire's problem is that it makes GCD windows tight for higher latency people, my proposal is that Wildfire last 15 seconds and the boosted damage only stacks up to 5 times. This gives plenty of time for 5 GCDs. However, this might make it seem less interactive, so I think you should also be manually required to detonate it (there's a cool manual animation in game, btw, and this would feel thematically right).

Turrets: Give us Turrets back (Both Single Target and AoE), completely separate from the Battery Gauge. Keep the Queen mech, but remove Queen Overdrive and instead give us Turret Overdrive, which boosts the damage your turret does for an amount of time (maybe destroying the turret and requiring immediate redeployment). Queen mech does not replace turrets, but is an additional ally on top of them.

Hypercharge: Heat Blast and Auto-Crossbow are removed. Hypercharge is an oGCD which when used transforms into a GCD Turret Superattack, AoE or Single-Target depending on which Turret you are using. These functionally work the same as Heat Blast and Auto-Crossbow, but fit thematically better. Change the GCD of this Super-Attack to 2.0 seconds, and make SkS affect it, however make it impossible for any reasonable SkS to afford 6 attacks during Hypercharge. This makes Hypercharge less punishing based on latency.

AoE Combo: Spread Shot -> Auto Cross-Bow -> Flamethrower, where Flamethrower now just shoots a single blast of AoE Flame (like with Bio-Blaster).

Reload: I liked Reload. Can I have Reload back, with Full Reload as well? If so, then in addition to making Heated Clean Shot add Battery, also make Reloaded shots add Battery.

Currently, MCH has 19 skills + 6 role actions, for 25 skills. Most classes have about 30-32 skills total including role actions. I am asking SE to remove 2 of those skills (Heat Blast and Queen Overdrive). That's 23 skills.

I am asking SE to repurpose Auto-Crossbow and Flamethrower into the AoE combo. Then I am asking SE to add the Hypercharge GCD onto the Hypercharge button (another two skills, but no extra buttons) and to add 3 Turret buttons (Single Target Turret, AoE Turret, and Turret Overdrive). That's 28 skills but only 26 buttons.

Then, if we add Reload ontop of that, we get 30 skills but only 28 buttons. Still less than most jobs, and plenty of room to add more stuff.

I get that some people didn't like reload. I did, and I want it back. But if SE feels like it would be bad to add it back, that's fine. I hope they can see why the rest of my proposal would work out for MCH though, both thematically and mechanically, making it altogether more fun to play.

Edit: I realize after writing this post that there is a whole thread on MCH open, but since that post seems like a discussion post and mine is a proposal (not necessarily expecting any discussion) I hope that they are different enough to warrant different posts.

AoE combo being Spead -> ACB -> FT is not bad.
It would make use of Flamethrower for once. I wish for flamethrower to be a bigger part of MCH tool but that idea works.

Turrets, not fond of the idea. SB MCH was actually this:
Summoned turret -> Hypercharge -> Turret overdrive -> Replace turret when it's back.

It wasn't excessively fun and on top of Ammos, the job was more around micromanagement.
If it was added, I wish it would disable the turret rather than replace it. MCH playerbase hated having to replace the turret.
But SQEX couldn't fix the turret and at least disable it rather than replace it everytime. That is, within a 2 year window.
And it would make the turret a "place and forget" pet. Not really fond of turrets, outside of Hypercharge, they're just more auto-attacks.
It's either bland, either micromanagement.

Wildfire... There is more to fix than the lag.
The two main problems about Wildfire is that it doesn't do much damage over 10 minutes and Wildfire gameplay is "Press the button, resume rotation", it has no interactions, you press Wildfire, continue to play and 10 seconds later, damages.
You could make it a 120s cooldown with 1200 potency it would remain the same. In my opinion, Wildfire need to go, this cooldown had its time but it only works with previous MCH iterations.
About the lag, there was a good suggestion about making Wildfire a 5 stack debuff, each GCD would reduce that stack by 1 and reaching 0 would trigger the damages. The core functionnality doesn't change but it's more lag friendly.

Reload was not hated, it was more the RNG aspect of Machinist that was hated.
But in the current iteration where combo is 100%, Drill and Air Anchor are weaponskills? Wouldn't work.
What you can do instead would be giving side effects to the 3 GCDs and being able to use them in the order you want.
One GCD could inflict a 60s DoT, another could deal strong AoE damage and the last would increase battery. That's of course an exemple.

The problem with reload is that MCH tends to go further and further towards the use of Machines rather than guns. The more it happens, the more Gunner is more likely to appear. It truly depends on SQEX wishes.
Many problems comes from the fact that MCH was intended to be a gunner with gadget, but they failed and created that weird and ugly Chimera.

And that's a problem I have with your suggestions. There is some ideas but it's a throwback to HW/SB MCH rather than making the job evolve.

I think I already addressed some of your concerns.

For turrets, they would be more interactive because they would be the ones using the Hypercharge attacks. (Also, I was myself hesitant on the replacement thing. The problem I had with the previous iteration of turret replacement was that it made turret unavailable for like 15 seconds, and that wasn't fun. It felt like you were losing things. Placing it would be interactive, and I think it would be fine so long as you could immediately replace the turret. So the skill would work by encouraging you to replace the turret ASAP. Taking your suggestion on board, if you really hate placement, you could instead have the turret "Deactivate" and need Reactivation.) I'm not sure how a pet could be more interactive than this.

I also proposed that Wildfire should have to be manually detonated, so you can't just forget about it, but instead you should be paying attention and detonating it right after you get to 5 stacks. This would be more interactive than most DPS cooldowns.

For Reload, well, the whole point of Reload is controlled RNG. I am indeed proposing that the RNG should be returned to machinist along with Reload to control that RNG. I liked that playstyle, but I understand that many didn't. I proposed that Reloaded Shots also give Battery precisely because, outside of Reloaded combos, Clean Shot would be RNG. I get your point about Gunners, but I doubt that they will give Gunner the Reload mechanic regardless. I also understand that with Reload and Turrets the class may become too micro-managey.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "Evolve." Many MCH mains liked these old mechanics, and there wasn't a good reason to remove some of them (Turrets, I'm looking at you). MCH now seems like its only interactive mechanic is heat gauge. Literally all you do is one single combo (or one single attack, if AoE) and wait for Heat Gauge to come up, occasionally pressing two bigger buttons (Air Anchor and Drill Shot) and some cooldowns with very little interaction (Queen and Wildfire). I like current MCH (because Heat Gauge is fun), but it could've been more had they not pruned it the way they did.

The only issue I find with current MCH is Heatblast clipping with Ricochet and Gauss Round a little bit too much. This could be easily solved by increasing Heat's Blast potency from 220 to 370 while totally eliminating the Heatblast reset charges. However, MCH is already one of the easiest DPS classes, and this would further simplify it.

Give us back low level main combo animations and its already 75% better job. It's Skysteel Manufactory, not Skysteel Acrobacy Academy.

My biggest issue with MCH is Heat Charge should have 5 stacks instead of a time limit.

I can't use the 5 charges in time due to bad ping and clipping.

Your aoe proposal sounds good.

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Originally Posted by Cetek14

Give us back low level main combo animations and its already 75% better job. It's Skysteel Manufactory, not Skysteel Acrobacy Academy.

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Skysteel only works when your in the sky, Only drills are for use on the ground.

Joking Aside, I Know a lot of MCHS that preferred the older casting mechanics and or Stormblood.

There's a couple jobs with the time limit issues you aren't alone, Hoping they get phased out by next expansion.

Man I always get so flustered with Joy whenever i see MCH get Critiqued, now lets see whats what.

Wildfire issues are so complex that it is best to go to the drawing board with that one. Ill always pitch to make it a gauge action to make it more impactful like every action fills up a bar by 10 or gives you a stack, until KabOOm and potency decreases as time gets lower idk just a idea. 4.0 was damage reliant, 5.0 was speed reliant making most of its kit Irrelevant and segregated i pray to god they do a major improvement to WD as rn its stale infrequent uninspired and boring

Turrets suggestions sounds vaguely like summoner. Funny enough Turrets were criticized in 4.0 for being loose and a "set it and forget it" type of deal. 5.0 fix that by being exactly that! Turrets shouldn't be a pet job thingy as the dev team are trying their best to destroy all pet jobs. I assume Bishop was removed since the abilitiy to plant turrets is gone, but id love a way to be more involved with my turret rather than pressing a button every 50 battery. Hope they dont just add a AOE Queen and call it a 6.0 which is looking very liekly

Hypercharge, I hate Heat blast as its literal skill fodder being locked behind heat and its boring on execution, lesser extent AC. Turret based Hypercharge huh, im getting another Summoner vibe, Enkindle Bahamut specifically. Not a bad thing but Jobs shoudlnt borrow TOO much from other jobs. Decent idea on paper as this would make Turrets more involved tbh

AOE, MCH has the most fragmented aoe in the game nothing really fits together besides like 2 skills. Potency wise Auto Crossbow and Spread shot do the exact same damage "no joke" so a potency upgrade is necessary. Flamethrower being Bioblaster without a Dot seems abit odd and (assuming im correct) feels wayy off if ts apart of a rotation as all 3 dont feel the same especially Auto cross bow. and cmon a rotation for aoe is boring wheres the zest?

Reload didnt work as some people got unlucky with RNG and spammed Split all the time even with 15/30 second CD. DNC works as it procs skils outside the Rotation with a less frequent 60 second CD. Probably should elaborate on how Bullets would be beneficial is it for the rotation? or is it just for battery then why not have a dedicated skill to add battery then just a skill that makes a weaponskill add battery? Cut the middle man ya know no job needs more baseless skills.

MCH is a fragmented mess and a unfun one at that. How timely as its the main conflict in shadowbringers (lol). The rejoining of all of MCH major elements is what I strive for and these are some decent ideas but would love to hear some elaborations, Potencies, potential rotations ect.

"MCH truly is a ghastly mockery of the true job"

Ping issues aside I think the single target rotation for MCH is really fun. But I agree automaton and wildfire just feel really “extra” like they don’t add anything to the job, they’re just buttons you push every few minutes and wildfire in particular just feels bad to use because of those ping issues. But overall they don’t bother me.

But I think MCHs AoE is where it really needs some work, currently MCH is just so boring in AoE, all of its moves feel like they do the same thing which is dull, I feel like they could make it all interact much better.

Flamethrower in particular feels awful to use, press a button then go check your phone for 10 seconds, it’s literally the antithesis of gameplay. I’d say half the duration and double the potency and make it so that it generates 10 heat per second (giving 50 for using it for the full duration). Bioblaster being AoE drill and auto-crossbow being AoE heat blast is fine but I’d like to see an AoE air anchor (perhaps add in the noiseblaster?) and bring back the bishop auto turret which upgrades to the automaton king (he could be like one of those robots with the spinning arms in azys lla).

Not only would this give us more to do in AoE but it would let us use all our job resources. Flamethrower to build heat, auto-crossbow to spend it, noiseblaster to build battery, automaton king to spend it. The only thing left would be wildfire and if they wanted to they could add an additional effect to flamethrower that it spreads wildfire to all nearby enemies and each tic of flamethrower counts as a GCD for wildfire purposes.

Give back Dismantle, thanks.

Also, Flamethrower should be an oGCD that places the old BRD's Flaming Arrow ground DoT.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/IsCR1u1VZd8/hqdefault.jpg

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Give back Dismantle, thanks.

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Upvote for the Glorious Dismantle.
That cooldown made me feel MCH had a massive impact on mitigation.

Also because it was a god damn wrench throw.

Since DNC and BRD are support it would be cool to have MCH as a mitigater even if this is just one skill. Dismantle did nothing wrong give it back MCH