Does the game need to be a bit riskier?

I asked a similar question on the ffxivdiscussion subreddit but, in terms of future content (5.4 and onwards I suppose):

-H ow risky do you think the devs should be with the creation of content? (Job design, encounter design, world design, housing design, etc.)

- Do you think they should play it safe like usual? (Content cycle is predictable as to what is included in it.)

OR

- Do you think they should be riskier? (More original concepts in the aforementioned [encounter, job, gear, housing, etc.] design decisions.)

They tried 'riskier' concepts, and the audience was not enthused. One word: Diadem.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

They tried 'riskier' concepts, and the audience was not enthused. One word: Diadem.

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That wasn't even risky content to begin with. It was one giant zergfest.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

They tried 'riskier' concepts, and the audience was not enthused. One word: Diadem.

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To be fair on that, Diadem wasn't well designed either the first or second time they brought it back. It was basically the content equivalent of throwing someone out of warm bath and into the Arctic Ocean. The third time they implemented it it was much better, and had they implemented it that way to start off with they could have then slowly expanded upon it to add combat zones for people to exploit for higher quality returns. FF14's biggest issue when they attempt to do something new is that they don't warm the players up to it. They just yell GO and expect people to adapt and because of that it took them almost five iterations on the same basic concept to get it close to being right for most of the community.

On the flip side there's the Baldesion Arsenal. It's riskier content, but because we already have had multi-tier raids in the game and because of how Eureka introduced the logos system it was much, MUCH easier for people to get into and love. It expanded upon an existing piece of content in what felt like an effortlessly natural way and if more of SE's attempts at newer content varieties were implemented with half as much care as BA, they wouldn't all be so divisive.

Personally, i prefer how Jobs used to be in Stormblood, and how Dungeons and Raids used to be in A Realm Reborn (except the chests on levelling Duties of course), compared to how things currently are

While I'd like to see things like more complex dungeons, I will argue that their current cycle has proven to be successful with the majority. And yeah some content might be kind of stale almost immediately but they keep it coming pretty consistently every 3 months. Predictable in that case is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Enla

To be fair on that, Diadem wasn't well designed either the first or second time they brought it back. It was basically the content equivalent of throwing someone out of warm bath and into the Arctic Ocean. The third time they implemented it it was much better, and had they implemented it that way to start off with they could have then slowly expanded upon it to add combat zones for people to exploit for higher quality returns. FF14's biggest issue when they attempt to do something new is that they don't warm the players up to it. They just yell GO and expect people to adapt and because of that it took them almost five iterations on the same basic concept to get it close to being right for most of the community.

On the flip side there's the Baldesion Arsenal. It's riskier content, but because we already have had multi-tier raids in the game and because of how Eureka introduced the logos system it was much, MUCH easier for people to get into and love. It expanded upon an existing piece of content in what felt like an effortlessly natural way and if more of SE's attempts at newer content varieties were implemented with half as much care as BA, they wouldn't all be so divisive.

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OP asked for risky content. If you're going to warm players up to it first, then where's the risk?

And that's why the answer to the OP is no. This game does not need to take risk. It can, but it doesn't have to, and if it does, do it for a side content that people can accept or not and it won't matter in the end. The main contents can be as predictable as ever in terms of regularity.

It's a tough question. While there are certainly some elements to the game I would like to see them take more risks on, there are also some areas I personally already enjoy and would probably not like to be changed. Plus, as others have said, it hasn't always worked out very well when the devs have decided to do new things or do things differently. And, yeah, you have to consider that many players are just really locked in to how they play FF14 anyway such that they would essentially force their way on whatever content came out regardless (and then complain when it didn't comform to the way they wanted to do it).

the game is absurdly easy and every step so far has been in the wrong direction in terms of difficulty. case and point the jobs getting "Streamlined" a very polite way of saying butchered

The general consensus in the thread from the subreddit was that the devs should be more risky in certain aspects. Job design for example, in ShB playing it safe to maintain a strict balance between various jobs lead to the homogenization of the the Tank and Healer roles, whereas they were more varied and distinctive before. They also usually said that HW had more unique mechanics instead of reuse of older ones (I don't entirely agree with this stance but I understand it) when it came to encounter design. IMO they should take more risks but in moderation not change the foundation of the game expac to expac ala WoW. some manner of stepping out of their comfort zone (seeing the popularity of the recent expac they have atleast some resources to try new things I would hope) to spice of gameplay and keep people around longer.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

the game is absurdly easy and every step so far has been in the wrong direction in terms of difficulty. case and point the jobs getting "Streamlined" a very polite way of saying butchered

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I don't think every job needs to be ultra complex and the base content doesn't need to be hyper difficult. It should have a mix of both in the main game and not just in savage/ultimate. I agree it's too easy, (like implementing only easy/very easy modes on already easy solo instances lol) but it shouldn't be hardcore all the time either

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Originally Posted by Leareaux

While I'd like to see things like more complex dungeons, I will argue that their current cycle has proven to be successful with the majority. And yeah some content might be kind of stale almost immediately but they keep it coming pretty consistently every 3 months. Predictable in that case is a good thing.

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I agree with more complex dungeons. I’m not sure whether it’s being dumbed down to take Trusts into consideration, but I feel the level of complexity of dungeons, not that it was hard before, became simpler even with 5.1,5.2,5.3.

Hero’s Gauntlet is so much simpler than many ARR dungeons. Same thing with Academia Anyder.

I felt more in danger from Temple of Qarn's bosses than to to 5.1-5.3 dungeon bosses.

HW was the take bigger risks expansion

-Diadem v1 and v2 both devolved to zerg a particular island or just afk while everyone else does the work while waiting to get a chance at a weapon more powerful than SB levelling dungeons until Doma Castle. They were flops for different reasons.
-Lords of Vermillion, a RTS minigame in an MMO, it was expansive, it continuously still has at least 1 developer working on it to this day, it was an alright failure of a big feature for a patch. 3.1 is not the worse patch in the game's history just for the wait time (5.3 is pretty close, both have good reason by the devs 3.1 being they needed holiday time,5.3 Covid obviously) but because the content released within the patch was really not what people wanted even the relic had the unidentifiable step which forced you either have 2 alts or know 2 people who have different specialists to complete(weren't too easy recipes to hq with base gear too).
-Aquapolis was introduced, a success
-PotD added, another successful venture
-Orchestrion, a success
-2 difficulty raids, Normal mode was successful however Savage was an entirely different story, the original A3S is known as static breaker for a reason, we didn't have cross world party finder until late HW, Gordias is the single biggest raiding content mistake the devs have ever made and the repercussions are still being felt to this day(hello those who wanna argue they don't have to Dps as a healer, this raid tier proved you wrong long before E8S, tanks going Dps stance, meta being the end all be all, removal of jobs from pfs, it all stemmed from this colossal mistake).Gordias Savage almost doomed the raid population of this game, it was a risky endeavour and it did not pay off. Creator savage and Zurvan EX created phase pushing as a way to make fights easier.

SB had some risks(Eureka,Hidden Canals,Character role battles,Doman reconstruction, Ultimate) but those were mostly built on an existing system already in place(Diadem, Aquapolis, battles, Custom deliveries/Idlyshire, Savage).

ShB risks are even smaller for battle content (Bozja) but much larger for crafters and gatherers (an overhaul, adding ranked, Diadem v3, relics for them that hasn't been seen since ARR, Ishgard reconstruction), honestly it is a risk to put more resources into crafted and gathering content , has it paid off that depends on how invested you are in what was risked.

Do also bear in mind ShB is still not over and we still yet to see what these farms are going to be about which is another risk they have taken.

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Originally Posted by lolicon09

Personally, i prefer how Jobs used to be in Stormblood, and how Dungeons and Raids used to be in A Realm Reborn (except the chests on levelling Duties of course), compared to how things currently are

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This. Now i dont know how jobs were in Stormblood but i can say that in Heavensward they felt more different than now, mainly speaking about tanks and heals. And ARR dungeons felt like a dungeons. Now dungeons are just straight line to run. I repeated this for years but we need more dungeons like Aurum Vale. Dangerous and exciting. Obviously nerfs have neutered it but its still better than most of the dungeons in the whole game

Riskier isn't the correct word when it comes to people asking for a more engaging open world or when people ask for relic quests to start at the beginning of the expansion around 6.01 or 6.02, even 6.03.

Those are very safe suggestions.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

They tried 'riskier' concepts, and the audience was not enthused. One word: Diadem.

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It tickles me how Diadem will, without fail, get some kind of content update in every expac. I can't wait for 6.0 to take place entirely in the Diadem in order to force people to actually do it.

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Originally Posted by Kiurai

I don't think every job needs to be ultra complex and the base content doesn't need to be hyper difficult. It should have a mix of both in the main game and not just in savage/ultimate. I agree it's too easy, (like implementing only easy/very easy modes on already easy solo instances lol) but it shouldn't be hardcore all the time either

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Jobs individually aren't the problem. It's the homogenization of an entire class that's an issue, such as tanks and healers.

Risk means you stand to lose something so no the game mechanics do not need to become riskier.

However, for some they may want certain content to become more challenging.

SE needs to leave the MSQ alone - it needs to be available for the masses, for those who do not seek out the great challenges. It's there to guide, educate and inform the players really. To prepare them for the greater challenges.

The "end game" content for some may lack a challenge but that may be in part their fault as they have done it over and over again. Repeat something enough times and it becomes easier. However there is no simple fix for this due to the fact that the development cycle is somewhat limited and SE is acutely aware that they must not make any content too difficult or people will simply scream complaints.

SE is more aware than anyone on their players numbers and how many actually run each type of content and they allocate development time accordingly.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

They tried 'riskier' concepts, and the audience was not enthused. One word: Diadem.

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I'm not sure if a system which pursues a nearly lowest possible ratio of development time to time played metrics thereby inflated should be called "risky"...

I think the game is too far along for a revamp. Should their next mmo, should they decide to do one, be riskier? Sure. I think FFXI was a sweet spot for difficulty in that there was some expectation of multiple failures before getting success.

It was fun, but it would absolutely turn off a lot of players in today’s market. Case and point I would never want to play it from the beginning again.

I do wish dungeons were more difficult. Yes, I know that they're supposed to be repeatable instances that you bumrush to get your daily dose of tomestones/gear, but this is just my selfish wish. I remember timing out once or twice in 2.1's version of Pharos Sirius. It was the kind of dungeon that you'd land on with an "aw crap... it's this." And not in a "aw crap, it's AV" kind of way. I'm not even asking them to be super hard... just... Idk, make it so you at least have to pay attention to get through...

When it comes to jobs, I have to say I enjoyed them most back in HW. Dark knight, which had been my main since then, feels like it's lost its identity over time. I'm all for throwing balance out the window if it gives some strong flavor to jobs in terms of how they feel during gameplay. I don't do savage/ultimate, so again, selfish wish ;P

Big yes to more risk in my opinion. That's where I'm at with enthusiasm for the current product. But the game has been too successful sticking to the old formula, that's why it never gets overhauled. If you're the lead designer you keep doing the stuff that prints the money and pleases the majority.

For newer players I'm sure all of this content is exciting and fresh. Me personally having been around a while, I'm pretty tired of the whole player progression model which almost hasn't changed at all since the 2013 rebirth. They increment the item level occassionally and you top up your gear in exactly the same way as every previous season of the endless cycle. Get your weapon from ex trial or raid, get your armor from tome currency or raid. Pretty much just that to put the entire endgame in nutshell.

Item level is the only method to progress our characters apart from cosmetics. When they do come up with new ideas, they isolate them in side content bubbles so that it doesn't impact the game in any meaningful or lasting way and is just viewed as an optional curio. You have a look at those side attractions, then it's back to the eternal grind of getting tomestones to boost your item level. Or just sit out and wait for the next tier/season of newer gear; the item level feels a bit meaningless after so many iterations.

So yeah personally I'd drop a meteor on the whole patch model, reward model, player progression model and rewrite those into something fresh. The world is ok, I just want new activities to do in it with a different incentive than cosmetics or item level. And yeah it'd be nice if the graphics got updated for PS5 / XSX / Direct X 12U with ray tracing.