The Empire and Miqo'te

Hello everyone! This post around I have been wondering about the Empire and their citizens. I have played the entire story, but it has been some hot years since I did the early chapters so maybe I just forgot. Anyway what is the take of the Empire on Miqo'te? Or other races than the Garleans for that matter. I am asking mostly for Miqo'te because I am thinking of making an active character for roleplay. Would it be possible that a Miqo'te is a citizen of the Empire? (While also being in the army of course but I mean in general) Or are they doomed like most people in the Imperial areas to forever be called Aan?

As far as I'm aware they don't really care what someone is so long as they obey and/or serve the Empire, at least as far as the territories they conquer.

One or two Miqo'te conscripts show up, but overall they (as well as Lalafells) don't seem common in Imperial territories beyond Ala Mhigo.

As for full-on citizenship? It seems highly unlikely, given the Empire's endemic racism towards anyone who isn't a full-blood Garlean, but it's probably not impossible. You'd need one hell of a backstory to justify it, though.

Darn lol. I always wished SE allowed you to choose and would let you continue your story path from THAT perspective...I mean sure being the hero is fun and all (I guess) but I would have loved the story to be separate paths. As for how full-on citizenship for other than Garlean... Maybe if the individual showed admirable zeal for the good of the Empire? I'm just throwing ideas out here, what you think?

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

As far as I'm aware they don't really care what someone is so long as they obey and/or serve the Empire, at least as far as the territories they conquer.

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Non-garlean (pure) troops are probably like Roman Auxilia.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Non-garlean (pure) troops are probably like Roman Auxilia.

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Makes sense, yeah.

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Originally Posted by Anathaer

Hello everyone! This post around I have been wondering about the Empire and their citizens. I have played the entire story, but it has been some hot years since I did the early chapters so maybe I just forgot. Anyway what is the take of the Empire on Miqo'te? Or other races than the Garleans for that matter. I am asking mostly for Miqo'te because I am thinking of making an active character for roleplay. Would it be possible that a Miqo'te is a citizen of the Empire? (While also being in the army of course but I mean in general) Or are they doomed like most people in the Imperial areas to forever be called Aan?

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Much like Kugane, you don't see Miqo'te locals in the Empire. I think the one or two you might see in the entire game would have to be foreigners.

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Originally Posted by Edax

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I was afraid most answers would be like this. Poor Q xD

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Originally Posted by Anathaer

Darn lol. I always wished SE allowed you to choose and would let you continue your story path from THAT perspective...I mean sure being the hero is fun and all (I guess) but I would have loved the story to be separate paths. As for how full-on citizenship for other than Garlean... Maybe if the individual showed admirable zeal for the good of the Empire? I'm just throwing ideas out here, what you think?

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This may have been better to post in the lore forums since it will get buried here in general discussion.

"Admirable zeal" would be 20 years of military service to graduate from aan. So you would be 38-40 by the time you were finally a citizen. Otherwise you would need to have "exceptional skills". Even then, Stormblood showed us that the Empire doesn't like provincials anyway and they're looked down on by everyone on both sides.

There are miqo'te conscripts like someone mentioned before, so there are either still miqo'te in Ilsabard who didn't migrate to Eorzea or these conscripts came from Ala Mhigo. Miqo'te are not native to Othard at all and an NPC in Kugane remarks on that too.

The quest chain with the M tribe implies they view them as beast men who haven't discovered their primal yet and hunted them to cull their numbers. At best it seems tolerated is the word, but more than willing to wipe them out.

I know there's a Garlean Miqo'te on Azys Lla that plays cards with you, but that's the only one I recall seeing.

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Originally Posted by Anathaer

Hello everyone! This post around I have been wondering about the Empire and their citizens. I have played the entire story, but it has been some hot years since I did the early chapters so maybe I just forgot. Anyway what is the take of the Empire on Miqo'te? Or other races than the Garleans for that matter. I am asking mostly for Miqo'te because I am thinking of making an active character for roleplay. Would it be possible that a Miqo'te is a citizen of the Empire? (While also being in the army of course but I mean in general) Or are they doomed like most people in the Imperial areas to forever be called Aan?

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Although they have servants from all races, most of the imperial soldiers are from one of 3 races Hyur, Elezen, and Roegadyn, with most of the officers being of the Garlean race. Now occasionally we see members of the other races, but the vast majority are the three I mentioned before, as the others are seen as less than "human" by the empire, although they still look down on all races other than Garlean.

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For clarity making a table of sorts:

Garlean: Full Citizenship at birth, Officer, can get away with murdering lesser races at will

Lesser races Still considered Human though:
Hyur: Can earn Citizenship, can become an officer, still considered lesser
Elezen: Can earn Citizenship, can become an officer, still considered lesser
Roegadyn: Can earn Citizenship, can become an officer, still considered lesser, thought of as Meat for the grinder, usually only infantry.

Beastmen, but useful slaves:
Lalafel, Au Ra, Lupin, might be used for experiments, but also useful for their aether abilities.

Beastmen, can be used as slaves, but more fun to hunt and kill:
Miqo'te & Hrothgar*

Beastmen (not seen in their ranks, and what little lore we have implies none are imperial, not even as slaves.)
Viera

I only listed player races and one race that is treated similarly to a player race. As far as Miqo'te in the Garlean Imperium, I haven't seen it, but I think it might have been mentioned there was one of importance once. So not impossible, but they would have to prove themselves to rise above slavery... I mean conscript status.

*Looking through lore sources and found that there were Hrothgar imperial soldiers, however, their homeland was sacked by the Empire (ie hunted for sport) after being conscripted.

There are a few Garleans that would be cool with it: for example Gaius was well known for valuing ability over nationality to a point, and Rhitahtyn sas Arvina was a Roegadyn from a captured territory who was promoted to a very respectable rank. Gabranth is even a legatus despite not being a pure-blooded Garlean.

So while it's pretty uncommon, it's not unheard of. There will absolutely be factions within Garlemald that believe promotion from aan is too good for anybody who isn't pure-blooded, but the empire as a whole isn't entirely against it if they're worth the promotion.

Miqo'te aren't all that common outside of the three main city states (Ul'dah, Limsa Lominsa and Gridania), probably due to the fact that the lore does kind of state they're not actually native to the continent...

But this guy definitely exists
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Idle_Imperial

So Miqo'tes can be a part of the Empire.

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Originally Posted by Alestorm

The quest chain with the M tribe implies they view them as beast men who haven't discovered their primal yet and hunted them to cull their numbers. At best it seems tolerated is the word, but more than willing to wipe them out.

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Is that definitely from the quests? I don't remember it but it's been a while since I played that part of Stormblood. I think there's something to that concept in the second lorebook, but I haven't got that yet.

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Originally Posted by Gothicshark

For clarity making a table of sorts:

Garlean: Full Citizenship at birth, Officer, can get away with murdering lesser races at will

Lesser races Still considered Human though:
Hyur: Can earn Citizenship, can become an officer, still considered lesser
Elezen: Can earn Citizenship, can become an officer, still considered lesser
Roegadyn: Can earn Citizenship, can become an officer, still considered lesser, thought of as Meat for the grinder, usually only infantry.

Beastmen, but useful slaves:
Lalafel, Au Ra, Lupin, might be used for experiments, but also useful for their aether abilities.

Beastmen, can be used as slaves, but more fun to hunt and kill:
Miqo'te & Hrothgar*

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Where are you pulling this list from? Why do we have any reason to think/know that the Garleans consider those races beastmen? We see Lalafells and Lupin in their armies as soldiers. They don't seem to allow that for actual beastmen.

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Originally Posted by Gothicshark

*Looking through lore sources and found that there were Hrothgar imperial soldiers, however, their homeland was sacked by the Empire (ie hunted for sport) after being conscripted.

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"Sacked" means they plundered it. It does not mean they hunted the citizens for sport.

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Originally Posted by Anathaer

Hello everyone! This post around I have been wondering about the Empire and their citizens. I have played the entire story, but it has been some hot years since I did the early chapters so maybe I just forgot. Anyway what is the take of the Empire on Miqo'te? Or other races than the Garleans for that matter. I am asking mostly for Miqo'te because I am thinking of making an active character for roleplay. Would it be possible that a Miqo'te is a citizen of the Empire? (While also being in the army of course but I mean in general) Or are they doomed like most people in the Imperial areas to forever be called Aan?

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I'm pretty sure, at least in ARR that Garleans are largely viewed as race pureists. Anything vaguely resembling anything bestial, like ears or tails are generally frowned upon. So you will see hyur, elezen and occasionally roe characters as garlean but I don't think I've ever seen lala or miqo or aura as Garlean NPC. And certainly not any of the newest races.

Good luck with your backstory for your miqo character. I'm sure it will be interesting.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Where are you pulling this list from? Why do we have any reason to think/know that the Garleans consider those races beastmen? We see Lalafells and Lupin in their armies as soldiers. They don't seem to allow that for actual beastmen.

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I've never seen anything like it, so I assume it's just made up, but it fits reasonably well as a speculative list of acceptability among Garlean high-society.

People here often say the race options we have are just humans with bits stuck on, well from a Garlean point of view the the Hyur are just short Garleans, the Elezen are Garleans with pointy ears, and the Roe are beefy-looking Garleans.
After that the races start to diverge a bit more drastically; tails, manes, horns, scales, animal ears, a complete lack of knees, vaguely potato shaped body, etc.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

"Sacked" means they plundered it. It does not mean they hunted the citizens for sport.

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See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Magdeburg for my use. Sacking a city can be anything from simple looting, to full-on genocide.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Where are you pulling this list from? Why do we have any reason to think/know that the Garleans consider those races beastmen? We see Lalafells and Lupin in their armies as soldiers. They don't seem to allow that for actual beastmen.

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Besides actual dialog in-game, where Zeno calls a Lalafell a beastman, or the Lore books which give a hint at the social structure of Garlean society. Basically, if the First Prince considers a Lalfell as a beastman, and they have openly hunted "culled" Miqo'te & Hrothgar for sport. So far the only Imperials from player character races who have citizenship we have seen, and the only officers with two exceptions have been only Hyur, Elezen, and Roegadyn. To compound this the Garleans still treat people of those races as Savages, even after they gain Imperial citizenship, and standing as a highly ranked and decorated officer, as seen in the MSQ.

Frankly, the only people Garleans treat as humans are other Garleans.

the two exceptions are a Hrothgar who was a low ranking officer and a conscript, who was in charge of a Hrothgar unit, who defeated from the imperial army when they found out their people were culled for sport. And the rumor of a 1.0 era Miqo'te general.

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Originally Posted by Gothicshark

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Magdeburg for my use. Sacking a city can be anything from simple looting, to full-on genocide.

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That seems to stand out as an exception, rather than a norm for the use of sack.
While ransacking a nation does involve a great deal of killing, I don't know that it can be stated to specifically mean they were hunted for sport without greater context. The killing is generally used for pacification, to secure stolen goods, or enslavement, not just hunting people down for sport. It feels more like what you said was your interpretation.

I'll ask the same as above, do you have a specific place you were pulling the lore from? Maybe the surrounding parts can give more context we're not privy to at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Shalan

That seems to stand out as an exception, rather than a norm for the use of sack.
While ransacking a nation does involve a great deal of killing, I don't know that it can be stated to specifically mean they were hunted for sport without greater context. The killing is generally used for pacification, to secure stolen goods, or enslavement, not just hunting people down for sport. It feels more like what you said was your interpretation.

I'll ask the same as above, do you have a specific place you were pulling the lore from? Maybe the surrounding parts can give more context we're not privy to at the moment.

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https://www.realclearhistory.com/art...ngols_267.html

Just saying Historians use the term Sacked to mean post siege destruction.

As for the lore, you've played the MSQ? Did you read the quest text? Especially in Stormblood? My source is just playing and reading the quest text. Best source for this is Krile when she meets Zeno. But there are other places in the MSQ where Garleans make it clear they consider everyone lesser beings. This with a few interesting side quests which teach the history of Miqo'te in Ala Mhigo, and how the Empire hunted them for sport. Then another side quest where you learn some history of a Hrothgar imperial defector. He was an officer BTW. So if you want to know more actually read the quest text, and not skip it through.

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Originally Posted by Gothicshark

https://www.realclearhistory.com/art...ngols_267.html

Just saying Historians use the term Sacked to mean post siege destruction.

As for the lore, you've played the MSQ? Did you read the quest text? Especially in Stormblood? My source is just playing and reading the quest text. Best source for this is Krile when she meets Zeno. But there are other places in the MSQ where Garleans make it clear they consider everyone lesser beings. This with a few interesting side quests which teach the history of Miqo'te in Ala Mhigo, and how the Empire hunted them for sport. Then another side quest where you learn some history of a Hrothgar imperial defector. He was an officer BTW. So if you want to know more actually read the quest text, and not skip it through.

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I don't skip any of the quest text, but it's been a long while since I've done some of the quests. I was just looking for a specific source (I.E. named NPC or text) that could be read stating that the Garleans were hunting Hrothgar for sport. It wasn't up in your original post, and the forum didn't update with your edit till after I'd made my post and refreshed the page. No need to be passive aggressive about it.


And I'm well aware of what sacking means. Your original post wasn't very clear on the matter however, and it made it seem as if you were conflating the Hrothgar being sacked with meaning they were being hunted for sport, rather than the two being connected but separate ideas. I.E. the Hrothgar were sacked, therefore they were hunted for sport - rather than the Hrothgar were sacked *and* hunted for sport.

While sacking does come with heaps of senseless killing during the pacification of the territory, it has a very different weight from the intentional hunting of a population for entertainment's sake. The times that such a thing does occur in real life stand out as the exception for their barbarity in comparison to the usual slaughter that occurs during a sack, so we generally don't conflate the ideas as being part and parcel.

I thought they considered the Miqo'te, Hrothgar, and Au Ra as beast tribes.

I can't recall any indication that the Empire treats Miqo'te, Hrothgar, or Au Ra any worse than they treat anyone else who isn't a Garlean. I mean, they even had a special strike force of Lupin, so really, they're just more disposable conscripts.