And i thought FF14 was supposed to be for casual gamers.

When i first heard how Final Fantasy 14 was going to concentrate it's effort on the casual gamer, i was overjoyed. Gone were the days of devoting 30+ hours a week to a digital media just to make headway. Gone were the days of going to work during the day, just to return home to start up my second "job". This it seems, was just another one of Square-Enix's empty promises, as many of the recent updates force players to allocate an ever increasing amount of time to receive any of the rewards.

First and foremost, I define a casual player as one that plays less than 15hrs a week, and, for the sake of argument, has limited resources as they never put in an extensive amount of time up to this point to level jobs or build a large sum of gil.

Case 1: Ifrit/Moogle
With an absolutely abysmal drop system, these fights have become a source of great disdain to the casual player. Using the above 15hr/week parameter for the casual player, this would allow for roughly 20 attempts per week at these fights (provided they allocated the entire week's time to these primals). Assuming all were successfully completed, it is still entirely possible to go the entire week without a single weapon drop, or should they get the a drop, there is still a chance that its for an undesirable job, or worse yet, a duplicate.
While this system is said to be changed in the upcoming 1.22 patch, the fact that it has remained for this long, or was implemented in this matter at all clearly shows how Square has no intention of showing any heed to casual players.

Case 2: Dungeons
Dungeons (CC + AV) suffer from many of the issues that plague the above primal fights (just swap weapons for Darklight gear), but have the added issue of having specific job requirements. Should for example, the casual player only have PLD/DRG/MNK to 50, it would be unlikely they could fit into a pick-up run, and would be forced into go with runs with a linkshell. Even runs with linkshells would be difficult as many have set start times for events, and by nature, causal gamers typically are unable to follow such stringent event times.

Case 3: Materia
The materia system requires a large amount of time and money (or an insane amount of luck) to be put into the system before there are actually any discernible results. As it stands now, the casual player would have to either Spirit Bond a massive amount of gear in order to receive the desired materia, or spend an exuberant amount of time farming gil in order to buy them off the auction house. All that time, work, and effort for just one decent set of single meld gear. Now the process begins anew with a whole new set of gear for another class, or should the player feel especially masochistic, going for a double melt set.
Simply put, the casual player is almost excluded from this content because of its very time sink nature. This is due largely by the difficulty to obtain decent materia. Should the casual player find the time to spirit bond a fair amount of gear, the fact still remains that 65% of it (from personal experience) will be useless, by useless i mean has very little gil value, has no practical purpose, or is so weak that its not even worth socketing. As for the remaining amount, 30% will be somewhat useful, either for personal use, or to at least sell/trade for something semi-desirable, this leaves only a 5% chance to get particularly useful/desirable materia. While this is not as much of an issue for hardcore players, those that aren't simply cant allocate the time needed for this, while still balancing out other events, such as leveling or linkshell events.

Ok rant over, this is just my 2cents on how square has alienated the casual gamer demographic.
Just for the record, i would technically qualify as a hardcore player, so many of the above points do not affect me as much.

MMO's are the entertainment industries' way of getting you to pay them to let you work for them. Didn't you know? :)

As you say, playing less than 15 hours a week, we're going to have different goals and be behind the community curve.

Clearing the dungeon or the fight is the casual expectation.

To me, artifact gear puts a casual player in a pretty good position.

And getting company seals for level 50 weapons.

Granted, it still is more difficult for a casual player to get a party to a dungeon or fight as someone with experience will generally be preferred. And most players going for the loot will be less tolerant of mistakes.

@ OP: Rock full AF. Nothing in this game REQUIRES more.

We've done 7 man speed runs (start to finish).. The dungeons, ifrit, and lolmoogle can be done in full AF.

Dungeons/Primals cater towards casual gamers because they have lax time requirements (no lockouts, essentially). If you couldn't enter them for X days after doing them then it would be a problem and there would be absolutely no pickup groups or casual players doing them. The primal drop system looks like its designed especially for pickup groups because everyone gets their own stuff and there's no drama or worry about ninja lotting.

Many people have done all these fights/dungeons with "non-optimal" jobs, it takes practice and maybe reworking strategies slightly. If you need a LS, of course you should try to find one that fits with your playtime, there are bound to be quite a few. I don't know why anyone would be in a LS they could not do anything with to begin with. If you are in a LS for friends or whatever there is nothing wrong with getting another for "business" if you can't make the times your initial LS runs. We are allowed to have multiples and that's what they are there for.

And, as was said a few times, AF gear is perfectly fine and in most cases is better than crafted gear until you get 2+ Materia on it. Materia isn't that time consuming to farm if you join XP/Spiritbond parties which usually last 1-2 hours at most, the issue really is getting ahold of gear to meld and any strings of bad luck. A single materia on all gear is fine as that is what the game is balanced around.

Hey I just want to say that I got Ifrit's Bow on my first day fighting him, which was three days ago. Fought him six times.

This game is casual; it's so easy to level DoW and DoM to 50. DoL and DoH are the real grinds that pay off imho.

Um... you should set your goals accordingly lol.

If you want to get the best of everything you're going to have to put in the time for it. You may not get it first, or fast but you'll get it.

But there's plenty of content for people who dont' have a lot of time. I often only have about 1 or 2 hours for end game content on a weekday.

Find a Linkshell that can schedule events for endgame content at the schedule you can play.

Did you miss Yoshida's metaphor that he wants the game to be like a theme park? Not everyone likes roller coasters.

This game definitely caters to casuals, but that doesn't mean everything has to.

At the moment I think they are concentrating on the current players of the game, to keep them playing and stop bleeding players.

I think version 2.0 will introduce more content for lower classes and beginners.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taaliph

Case 1: Ifrit/Moogle
With an absolutely abysmal drop system, these fights have become a source of great disdain to the casual player.

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This still counts as 'casual' content on the grounds that you can go from Inn to fight, finish fight in less than an hour. This is where it can be iffy to understand the definition of 'casual'. I do not think it means: Full game content can be completed by a casual 15hr/week player. But rather: A person with only 15 hours/week can still engage in game content.

Contrast this to an encounter or event that would take 3-5 hours (or more!) to complete.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taaliph

Case 2: Dungeons
Dungeons (CC + AV) suffer from many of the issues that plague the above primal fights (just swap weapons for Darklight gear), but have the added issue of having specific job requirements.

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Similiarly, the dungeons are designed so that if you have 1.5 to 2 hours to play you can go do one run (maybe even 2). That is how it is casual. The reward at the end can not be scaled towards casual players, or it will be fully consumed by heavy players.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taaliph

Case 3: Materia
The materia system requires a large amount of time and money (or an insane amount of luck) to be put into the system before there are actually any discernible results. As it stands now, the casual player would have to either Spirit Bond a massive amount of gear in order to receive the desired materia, or spend an exuberant amount of time farming gil in order to buy them off the auction house.

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Hopefully the 'casual' player would not go in with the expectation of being able to level all jobs and get all gear with tripple-meld (that is not exactly in the line of casual play). More realistic would be they want to specialize in one or two jobs, and are happy to get good gear (single meld).

If that is the case, most materia can be cheaply bought with gil earned from the main scenario quests. If they spend a little time making some more money (logging and mining are amazingly good mechanics for casual players to earn a lot of money, as it requires so little 'bundles' of time or equipment and no partying to do), then they could get the rest of the materia they want.



I think this question has to do with the definition of a casual player (or casual game play).

The idea was to be able to ensure that all content can be experienced by anyone with only a couple hours of game time (in sharp contrast to the previous game of FFXI where a lot of the content required you to dedicate a 6+ hour sit-in).

However, they also indicated that it was not Casual Player ONLY, but would also cater towards those who have a lot of time to invest.

The only way this can be accomplished is to ensure that a reward would be available for those with a lot of time, that can not be obtained by a casual player.

ya everything you stated, and everyone else here stated is very casual orientated, the thing that makes it more hardcore is getting all the gear, but as a casual player, again as people have mentioned, you don't need it, AF is more than enough for the dungeons, in fact I still wear the stuff because it looks frigging awesome.

Yes getting quadruple melded gear is going to set you back loads of gil but why do you need that as a casual player, 1 materia will set you back what 20k if that.

Ifrit takes 15 minutes really, even with pickup groups so after 15 hours thats 30 runs, and that is way too many runs for a casual player to even contemplate wanting to do.

So many things are catered for people like you, leves, behests, quests, easily PLed to get levels up. Even solo isn't exactly a burden. it won't be as fast as a 4 hour PL party but the game isn't only for casual players or even a single player game it is an MMO so needs to cater to several type of people. So is this game casual friendly, definitely

This game definatley seems to favor casuals atm. I am always able to log on and join in on a group doing whatever. May it be AV, CC or one of the primes there is always shouting going on for one of them. I consider myself a hardcore gamer (as in the kind that won't get up to go WC until I finish doing what I am doing, won't eat, etc..aka a tard lol) like..I'll eat sleep and breathe the game until I finish what I'm doing =X

Took me like a week and a half of doing Ifrit to go 7/7. This game is so easy its not even funny atm. I am hoping after 2.0 the real hardcore stuff comes out! Casual is nice too but yeah,

I would like to add my 2cents as well.

I know that FFXIV is a MMO and understand that a MMO implies that you play with other players... but why not have a MMO that caters for single players as well (full game content)?

I know it is cliche to mention other games when making suggestions but I think of Sarcerd and Sacred 2 when thinking of a good example of catering for both multiplay and single play. You can go anywhere and kill anything alone if you are good enough, high enough and stocked enough. Then when you go multiplay, everything gets increasingly harder depending on the size and level of the party. This was great because saying that you killed a dragon with 5 friend meant that the dragon was at least 15 (thumb suck) times stronger and more difficult to kill as just a single player.

I understand that this is not what a lot of players want because then everyone can just solo everything and LS's would be kinda useless but I'm sure that with the high quality system, some sort of balance can be found to still encourage multiplay but then at least not exclude the "SOLO" players as I like to call myself.

Maybe I should have started with that, I consider myself as a "SOLO" player due to the casual nature of my game play. 15hrs a week!! I wish i even had that much time. I only get to really play when I'm on leave. With the little time I have to play during the rest of the year, it is really annoying to look for a shout and then wait an hour or two for everyone to join, and then maybe doing one run and someone has to go eat or smoke or sh@# and by the time they get back I have to go. Thus it only leaves me with solo play. I just think that the players that work for a living (thats where the money comes from SE, ppl work for money, not everyone is fortunate enough to have someone else work and pay for their gaming) should also be considered and let them enjoy the full game that they are paying for as well. I am one of the few remaining players on my server that played from 2010 (that I still know of) I know most left after the free time expired (free loaders, sheesz) but the others that I spoke to left because we got forced to do stuff that we were not Forced to do in the beginning like have big parties just to enter.

This rant is getting a bit long, so I think I should rather stop it here. I will just leave this one thought. Why chase after players and player content of ppl that will only complain and leave anyway after two or three months? Why not get personal input from your CORE and long time players instead?

I think this is not meant to be very solo-friendly as there are other MMORPGs out there that are meant be solo-friendly. So from a business poitn of view, FFXIV does not want to compete in the solo-friendly market.

Also, FFXIV is Final Fantasy, and part of that theme (genre, history, background) is a focus on party play. To have that emphasis removed is to no longer be Final Fantasy.

Put another way: To say you want to play FFXIV is to say you want to be in a party-multi-player-centric world. For your situation, hopefully Content Manager will solve the problem (I think your main concern is not not-wanting to party, but rather, having to spend time to build parties).

I am much in the same boat, and am eagerly anticipating Content Manager. Fortunately Yoshi-P says that's one of his most important/main/prime features he is looking forward to ^.^b. Maybe i'll end up in a party with him!

If you can solo a dragon, then Ishgard would have defeated Dravania before the game started.

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Originally Posted by tymora

If you can solo a dragon, then Ishgard would have defeated Dravania before the game started.

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Not quite sure I know what you mean?

I do understand that all FF games are 'Party Based' but you are actually a SOLO player controlling a Party!!! So...
What would be nice to have is maybe a way to hire a "helper" like a white mage to go with you into fights. Even hire a full party, coz the parties I have joined were sometimes filled with people that only wanted one thing then leave or mess with the party after they have what they want. I just really feel that instead of forcing people to get 8 other players to join, rather enable a solo or even two to enter and do stuff, but reward the 8 players groups better or something like that. At the moment, if you have one player that messes about, the party will get nowhere. But if it was possible to do the same thing with only 7 or even 4 good players, why do you have to drag one bad player around? I have done Darkhold with 4 really good players and the other 4 only tried to keep up. I just think that it would be more of a challenge for all players if the dungeons were almost like Lev's. You can try a 3 star lev alone and if you succeed, you are really good with great rewards. If you are 8 with a 3 star, your just afraid and will get very little to no reward.

In my opinion it is really limiting for people who loves the game and loved it from the start, to not be able to participate in all the game have to offer. I am really tired of trying to get into good parties and every time you get a good LS and then the people start to drop out and leave the game and you have to start over again and again.

Aah well it seems that I just have to accept that this is more like a American High School than a GAME. If you are popular and have lots of friends, you can do everything. If not "Sit in your corner and Shut up". We will take your money and not give a hoohaa what you think.

Just thought that there were more people like me that wanted to experience the full game without restrictions but I was mistaken.

To be fair, all the content in your original post was introduced AFTER Yoshi-P took over development. He has since shifted the focus of important story elements to be group content. Tanaka's vision was that any discipline could level up and see the content (i.e. the old main storyline) but that no longer applies.

There will still be solo content in ARR, but I would expect major story content to still involve full parties.