SCH oddities

Hey there everyone, New to the forums, but not new to the game itself.

I was wondering if anyone else noticed that seraph feels...inconsistent?

For example, Succor has a potency of 180 and it restores around 7k~8k range non-crit no buffs.

But seraph's AoE says 300 potency, but restores around high 6k range with no buffs/crit.

it feels like seraph especially feels really...underpowered compared to other healers.

and I feel like her regen/potency buff skills need to be different or better than Eos/Selene.

as it stands rn, Seraph AoE provides less defense, than whm wings and AST can provide better shields more frequently at fractions of mp cost.

Honestly, Seraph should be it's own summon. but heavily focus on shielding over HP restore and Eos/Selene should be kept the way they are (maybe healing potency up a bit?) and the scholar is always a bit a both.

This would also help mitigate that stigma of dual scholars feeling really underwhelming.

Idk, kinda of just rambling now. How about everyone else? Think scholars fairies are in a good place or could use a bit of a tune up?

Pet heals are based on their stats not yours so their output is lower. Their stats are roughly about 60-70% of yours iirc.

Seraph's strength is that her shields stack and her Embrace adds a shield. That said, she's basically just a buff to Eos/Selene that you can use on cooldown possibly occasionally holding her for a heavy incoming AoE damage phase. She's the new version of Rouse.

She's also great on trash packs in dungeons and can pretty much heal a full pull herself if you have pre-Excog and Adlo in place and lay down a Sacred Soil.

I agree with you for a lv80 skill i thought it would be more powerful/useful.... they put all the efforts on the effects (but not in Seraph herself, zoom on her she looks so ...weird), i was hyped about it when i have seen the job skills video but once i tried it, it was the cherry on the cake i was already disapointed by the 5.0 SCH gameplay so i just wanted to stop here.

You aren't wrong. SCH is quickly losing its momentum in everything it was once good at. And while that's not bad per se, they aren't getting the buffs they need to offset the changes the other healers got. The biggest issue use to be that SCH was OP because of the faerie, but ironically now they are UP because of the faerie; huh? They are/were going in good directions simplifying a few things, but they can't ignore that what use to be considered OP back then, is not anymore since they added those skills to the other healers and reduced the faerie's potency. Potencies and CDs need an adjustment.

Additionally SCH needs some sorta DPS boost at level 50. But it can't interfere with Broil cause then they'd be too OP at 60, and by 60 everything is evened out. SE what have you done to our poor SCH, 😭

this is your periodic reminder that Summon Seraph is actually the deleted/needlessly removed skill Rouse bumped up to 80 with a smol rebalance to make sure you don't notice, in this case, its adding a shield to embrace while quietly nerfing whispering dawn so it wont be buffed

As others have mentioned, pets have a % of your stats but its suspected to vary between ACN, SMN and SCH. Though in 5.0 SE put significant effort into deleting them and weakening the surviving mechanics to being negligable and I know when you are an ACN they have 30% of your stats which is appalling, but in practice its less than that. (my ruin 40 damage, emerald carbuncle, 2, really?)

In terms of how weak the sch fairy is, by default, its much weaker than before. How much? Lets visit the patch archives that SE is desperate to hide from us this expansion

2.0-4.0 potency embrace 250, in 5.0 its 150 potency. Rouse took old embrace up to 350 potency for its duration. Seraph's equivalent does 200 potency plus a shield, however seraph lasts less time due to SE deliberately building in a delay despite what the timer says and ghosts sometimes resulting in missing heals

angel's whisper the aoe seraph regen: potency is 120 for 21 seconds. That's exactly the same as whispering dawn in 5.0, just a glamour difference. In previous years, you could Rouse eos and boost that to 168 potency.

Fey illumination is actually the merging and nerfing of two older skills. Fey covenant (buff magic defence of self and nearby party members by 20%) and Eos' illumination (increased healing potency by 20% of self and party members

My main gripe being it feels like the odd one out.

WHM is superb at healing

AST is good at healing and/or shields

SCH isn't superb at healing, isn't the best shield deployer in most cases, their shields feel weaker or on par to AST, they aren't very damage dealing, they don't have a lot of support abilities.

It feels like in endgame content, they are rendered mostly pointless as AST and WHM can give shields/reduce raid wide damage respectively with much less effort and resources while bringing a lot to the table.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

this is your periodic reminder that Summon Seraph is actually the deleted/needlessly removed skill Rouse bumped up to 80 with a smol rebalance to make sure you don't notice, in this case, its adding a shield to embrace while quietly nerfing whispering dawn so it wont be buffed

As others have mentioned, pets have a % of your stats but its suspected to vary between ACN, SMN and SCH. Though in 5.0 SE put significant effort into deleting them and weakening the surviving mechanics to being negligable and I know when you are an ACN they have 30% of your stats which is appalling, but in practice its less than that. (my ruin 40 damage, emerald carbuncle, 2, really?)

In terms of how weak the sch fairy is, by default, its much weaker than before. How much? Lets visit the patch archives that SE is desperate to hide from us this expansion

2.0-4.0 potency embrace 250, in 5.0 its 150 potency. Rouse took old embrace up to 350 potency for its duration. Seraph's equivalent does 200 potency plus a shield, however seraph lasts less time due to SE deliberately building in a delay despite what the timer says and ghosts sometimes resulting in missing heals

angel's whisper the aoe seraph regen: potency is 120 for 21 seconds. That's exactly the same as whispering dawn in 5.0, just a glamour difference. In previous years, you could Rouse eos and boost that to 168 potency.

Fey illumination is actually the merging and nerfing of two older skills. Fey covenant (buff magic defence of self and nearby party members by 20%) and Eos' illumination (increased healing potency by 20% of self and party members

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Not that I disagree with you about Seraph being a somewhat rebalanced version of old Rouse but some of your data are incorrect and doesn't belong to SHB adjustment.

2.0-3.5 : Embrace = 300 Pot
4.0-4.5 = Embrace = 250 Pot
5.0 = Embrace 150 Pot.

They gradually nerfed it.

Same goes for Fey Illumination. The nerf to 10% has been made in Stormblood while Scholar gained Largess.
As for Whispering Dawn, its initial potency from 2.0 to 4.3 was 100, could be boosted by Rouse. In the patch when they fixed Fairy responsivness, you couldn't pair rouse with WD anymore, but the base potency were raise at 120 in exchange for that nerf.

So, I agree and dislike what have been done with Scholar, but every fairy nerf don't belong to SHB alone.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Not that I disagree with you about Seraph being a somewhat rebalanced version of old Rouse but some of your data are incorrect and doesn't belong to SHB adjustment.

2.0-3.5 : Embrace = 300 Pot
4.0-4.5 = Embrace = 250 Pot
5.0 = Embrace 150 Pot.

They gradually nerfed it.

Same goes for Fey Illumination. The nerf to 10% has been made in Stormblood while Scholar gained Largess.
As for Whispering Dawn, its initial potency from 2.0 to 4.3 was 100, could be boosted by Rouse. In the patch when they fixed Fairy responsivness, you couldn't pair rouse with WD anymore, but the base potency were raise at 120 in exchange for that nerf.

So, I agree and dislike what have been done with Scholar, but every fairy nerf don't belong to SHB alone.

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I thought I missed a nerf somewhere with the embrace. Serves me right for looking at 1am in the morning
That old whispering dawn is still a step up if you compare rouse to seraph, rouse granted an equivalent of 140 potency at its weakest, which is better than seraph which doesn't change.

The current fey illunimation did take its weaker defence buff from eos' older skill. Being lowered from 20% to 5% is a nasty nerf.


Some days I regret not levelling sch past 50 on my alt. I think I would have liked it at 70.

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Originally Posted by Chrystal755

My main gripe being it feels like the odd one out.

WHM is superb at healing

AST is good at healing and/or shields

SCH isn't superb at healing, isn't the best shield deployer in most cases, their shields feel weaker or on par to AST, they aren't very damage dealing, they don't have a lot of support abilities.

It feels like in endgame content, they are rendered mostly pointless as AST and WHM can give shields/reduce raid wide damage respectively with much less effort and resources while bringing a lot to the table.

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If it helps, don't think of AST as being better at shields compared to SCH. While it is true that AST has slightly higher shields compared to SCH, that's mostly to offset that SCH does have the faerie. And potency-wise the shield aren't that far off from one another. SCH's biggest strength and weakness is the faerie, because she acts like a turret. So SCH can heal from greater and safer distances. But the faerie, in her current form, doesn't account for certain things SCH lacks compared to the other healers, like a first tier AoE healing spell or a second tier single target one, and why can't Succor just be 200 potency already? There are so many little bits that need to be addressed. Hopefully SE sees that.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Pet heals are based on their stats not yours so their output is lower. Their stats are roughly about 60-70% of yours iirc.

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This is partly wrong and partly right.

Pet heals are based of of the SCH stats, but pet potencies are lower than what tooltip shows.

The 60-70% pet potency tax is roughly right. They do ~30% less healing than their tooltip shows as compared to their SCH companion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

In the patch when they fixed Fairy responsivness, you couldn't pair rouse with WD anymore, but the base potency were raise at 120 in exchange for that nerf.
.

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And yet the fairy is still clunky and ability ghosting still exists to this day since they introduced Seraph.

The fairy has always been clunky but at least in the past you could mitigate it by forcing her to cast embrace, then SE took that away (because it created a "Skill Gap") and she has been subpar since.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chrystal755

My main gripe being it feels like the odd one out.

WHM is superb at healing

AST is good at healing and/or shields

SCH isn't superb at healing, isn't the best shield deployer in most cases, their shields feel weaker or on par to AST, they aren't very damage dealing, they don't have a lot of support abilities.

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I agree ScH is left behind, but I'd say all healers are good at healing, with AST being the one that's superb at it. WhM lacks shields and both ScH and WhM pay dps taxes to heal and have to turn to GcD's much sooner than AST.

The meta is AST+other healer and ScH's issue is it has inferior damage and doesn't bring extra healing to the table that AST can't cover or needs. In addition, WhM is straightforward and effective and ScH has a clunky pet that ghosts and delays, dissipation and Place to manage, and requires better fight mapping due to weak GcD's if you waste resources.

WhM hits harder and does the same thing with far more ease and AST does everything better. ScH has been on a steady decline since 5.3 and is close to taking the least popular heal spot from AST now.

AoE adlo off the GCD is stupid strong. Sure it does not restore/shield the same as if the SCH was using it, but if it did it would be crazy OP.

It did take me a while to accept/realize that Seraphs versions of Lily's abilities simply allow us to still have access to them while Seraph is out. It would have been a fundamentally bad design if the SCH lost access to these skills, forcing him/her to expend them or allow them to drift in order to summon Seraph. Because of this, they do not need to be buffed like Embrace.

As I see it, Seraph is a hella good max skill ability, and I have got a lot of use out of it for sure. Other than known glitches with pets in general, I don't see a need to make any changes, especially in the potency department.