Augmented Scaevan gear: the true villain of Shadowbringers

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Ugh who cares!! You can clear any content with AUGMENTED SCAEVAN gear that's the whole point!! Why else would they put that gear in the game? LOL

I wonder what they were thinking by enforcing min ilvl of lvl 73 gear on a lvl 79 dungeon, when the MSQ (and sidequests) have already given players lvl 74/76/78 gear at that time...

Yes you could clear everything till hades with 380, but you gotta be good for that, it would take a lot longer and would be no fun... the problem is while its not that much on ilvl there is a lot of mainstat and def missing... imo the restrictions need to be a lot higher. Like omg poor thing gotta farm a dungeon 2-3x Q_Q

For a game forcing us to replace all our gear every other patch that old problem really is annoying...

Let me put it this way.

Augmented Scavean Gear is like...i think something around the ball park of 10 less ilvls than what is possible to obtain at lvl 79. 10 ilvls is barely anything.

Secondly, the new expert dungeons dont require you to be at ilvl cap for that patch, further proven by the fact that they drop gear that is utterly irrelevant to most people.

Augmented Scavean is more than suitable to be used all the way until lvl 79, though i will admit it does start to get much weaker in mt gulg but Augmented gear is actually BETTER than dungeon/HQ crafted gear before mt gulg so really...that gear is fine. I've done the biggest possible pulls in that gear, with healers and tanks in that gear, with dps in that gear. The first time i went through the expansion story last july i used augmented scavean/omega gear all the way up until i hit 80, because it was simply just adequette for everything and in many cases actually better.


If someone uses something LOWER than augmented scavean though? Then yea we have a problem, but honestly, it could be worse.

You realise the augmented scaeven gear doesn't get outclassed stat wise until qitana ravel dungeon gear, so anything before that is fair game, and even then its only a tiny difference between qitana and aug scaeven. Adjusting gulg item level seems like a much better solution, because nothing even hits hard in the Melikahs Well so you could get through that no problem, and again the actual stat difference between aug scav and melikahs well is low enough that any stat deficiencies can be accomodated with player skill. I've done these dungeons in min ilvl parties and you can still double pull and finish the dungeon in good time, this is not a issue with gear its an issue with people being bad.

Not gonna lie, on my alt jobs I am SO guilty of joining in terribad gear. I do my beastmans (which can basically be completed naked) and I do all roulettes, sadly I sometimes get chucked into a SHB dungeon. I only tend to gear up with the 100% guaranteed dungeon drops or at lvl 80 with any spare tomes.

Oh look, it's like the Castrum Abania thread all over again.

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You see people using this abysmal garbage gear all throughout shadowbringers, and despite the fact that everyone wearing it does 0 damage, has 0 health and dies if an enemy breathes on them wrong,

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Except the previous thread didn't need exaggerations of this magnitude to try to get its (still incorrect) point across.

Nice job posting this on a sock account too, slick.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Oh look, it's like the Castrum Abania thread all over again.

Except the previous thread didn't need exaggerations of this magnitude to try to get its (still incorrect) point across.

Nice job posting this on a sock account too, slick.

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I'm sure SE intended for players to play "how low can you go?", when they introduced/tightened min ilvl for duties not long ago.

It's only incorrect, if you're running duties preformed with very pacient and capable friends. I'm sure everyone and their grandma have a pocket Savage tier healer. :^)

Nice of you to think you won that thread, when you merely covered your ears and ran tail between legs.

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Originally Posted by VenKitsune

If someone uses something LOWER than augmented scavean though? Then yea we have a problem, but honestly, it could be worse.

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I tanked everything until 80 in a mix of Augmented Scaevan, Omega and Elemental +1 gear which is "technically" lower than Augmented Scaevan gear, never had an issue. Augmented Scaevan is completely fine, what you need to look out for is unaugmented Scaevan, no melds and a ring from Ghymlit Dark, because that's the sign of a boosted job and way more likely to not know what they're doing.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

(...) is low enough that any stat deficiencies can be accomodated with player skill. I've done these dungeons in min ilvl parties and you can still double pull and finish the dungeon in good time, this is not a issue with gear its an issue with people being bad. (...)

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Yes thats the point and unless they do more dungeons to get a bit more practice and/or higher gear to add more buffer it can turn a nice dungeon into a painfull drag. Yes i can do it on min too, but why? if you can soften it then you should, not everyone is that good and unless you can go full premade you'll never know. I cant count the times i went in an roulett literally 35 min before reset and yet only finished 5-10 min after it... If ppl are dumb AND cant take a single hit without dropping dead, its just painfull. And tbh, i dont mind helping or carry em, but dam they could run for example 1-2 more Qitana for SOME more gear. It boils down to ppl just level WAY too fast...

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

I'm sure SE intended for players to play "how low can you go?", when they introduced/tightened min ilvl for duties not long ago.

It's only incorrect, if you're running duties preformed with very pacient and capable friends. I'm sure everyone and their grandma have a pocket Savage tier healer. :^)

Nice of you to think you won that thread, when you merely covered your ears and ran tail between legs.

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Found the sock owner.

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Originally Posted by VenKitsune

Let me put it this way.

Augmented Scavean Gear is like...i think something around the ball park of 10 less ilvls than what is possible to obtain at lvl 79. 10 ilvls is barely anything.

Secondly, the new expert dungeons dont require you to be at ilvl cap for that patch, further proven by the fact that they drop gear that is utterly irrelevant to most people.

Augmented Scavean is more than suitable to be used all the way until lvl 79, though i will admit it does start to get much weaker in mt gulg but Augmented gear is actually BETTER than dungeon/HQ crafted gear before mt gulg so really...that gear is fine. I've done the biggest possible pulls in that gear, with healers and tanks in that gear, with dps in that gear. The first time i went through the expansion story last july i used augmented scavean/omega gear all the way up until i hit 80, because it was simply just adequette for everything and in many cases actually better.


If someone uses something LOWER than augmented scavean though? Then yea we have a problem, but honestly, it could be worse.

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Forgiven gear is 420. Scaevan is 400.
Even the 79 Crafted HQ armor is 415.

For one or two slots? Eh. No big deal. But missing 15 - 20 item levels worth of Main and Substat on every slot combined with diminishing effectiveness of substats on their relevant percentages, meaning your Crit, DH, DET etc all get weaker with every level.

if its a DPS, They will piss the healer off by getting near one shot due to lack of expected HP values. If its a Tank, they're getting smashed hard with a smaller HP buffer than they should. If its a Healer, it doesn't matter too much, since it just means they'll be spamming more heals out or getting scraped off the floor by the RDM after every mechanic.

All while doing much less DPS than they should be at that level lol.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Found the sock owner.

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Found the one who needs to call others sock accounts to win arguments.

I don't carry a chip on my shoulder from having been proven wrong on a past thread tho :^)

As far as I know, you're the sock owner so you can come here "trash it" and be an hero.

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Found the one who needs to call others sock accounts to win arguments.

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Implying that this thread is even putting forth a serious "argument" to begin with. You must think very highly of yourself.

Face it as a challenge.
Some people cry out their hearts desiring harder dungeons...
Nothing is more challenging than players not fully armored.
It takes longer, yas ma'am. But hey, get out of routine.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Implying that this thread is even putting forth a serious "argument" to begin with. You must think very highly of yourself.

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If you want people to take you seriously, maybe try not to throw out blind accusations. It helps to have proof for your claims, otherwise, you just damage the argument you're associating with yourself.

Some food for thought.

This interaction has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else, and therefore I really couldn't care less whether you or anyone else takes me seriously or not. It doesn't involve you.

Some food for thought.

The bottom line is that the clearly-sockpuppeted OP's claim of people in i400 making "zero" contribution to Shadowbringers dungeons is overexaggerated and clearly false, so I am (rightfully) going to cast suspicion on anyone trying to defend it as if it were any sort of gospel.

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Originally Posted by AxelBranford

Face it as a challenge.
Some people cry out their hearts desiring harder dungeons...
Nothing is more challenging than players not fully armored.
It takes longer, yas ma'am. But hey, get out of routine.

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Well, i mean. I once healed a Tank at the start of ShB while levelling my SCH through Holminster who was wearing Ruby Tide accessories and NQ vendor Deepgold armour. Or back further in Sirensong during Stormblood a Tank wearing i200 with just 4k more HP than me, as the Healer.

It was less a 'challenge' and more just me strapping them to my back and dragging them to the end.

Just because it's possible, doesn't mean you should subject random people to it.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

This interaction has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else, and therefore I really couldn't care less whether you or anyone else takes me seriously or not. It doesn't involve you.

Some food for thought.

The bottom line is that the clearly-sockpuppeted OP's claim of people in i400 making "zero" contribution to Shadowbringers dungeons is overexaggerated and clearly false, so I am (rightfully) going to cast suspicion on anyone trying to defend it as if it were any sort of gospel.

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"My interactions on a public thread that everyone can read are none of you concern. Also people on the internet never make opposing sock puppets to beat down and prop themselves up, specially the "My opinion is fact" kind of forum poster."

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

so I am (rightfully) going to cast suspicion on anyone trying to defend it as if it were any sort of gospel.

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Suspicion is not proof.

Do not assume who the sockpuppet belongs to. It doesn't matter. Take the topic for what it is regardless. You can make your case without shutting down another person's argument just because you assume they made the thread.

I don't even like John and I think you're being completely unreasonable.

Meeh, i prefer how it is SB to SHB than it was previously where you had to switch gear past 55,65.

Was never fun to heal a tank that didn't upgrade past augmented gear in the levelling dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Well, i mean. I once healed a Tank at the start of ShB while levelling my SCH through Holminster who was wearing Ruby Tide accessories and NQ vendor Deepgold armour. Or back further in Sirensong during Stormblood a Tank wearing i200 with just 4k more HP than me, as the Healer.

It was less a 'challenge' and more just me strapping them to my back and dragging them to the end.

Just because it's possible, doesn't mean you should subject random people to it.

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Yeah, but it is so rare to get this kind of situation...
And let's say the most usual truth... Normally those characters are from players that have already hit 80 with their main and are leveling another, as the game provides the gear on quests, the most common outdated gear players are the ones leveling that have not capped the tomestones to renew the gear.
It's not fun, but not the end.
The "fun" is when that player don't hold his chocobos and try to mass pull or the dmg is not proper to clean at the expected time... still, it can manage to deal with those players. As tank, if I see that the dps is not strong or healer has some issues with big pulls, it is my duty do adapt to the team.

This is pretty standard every expansion. The endgame tomestone gear lasts until about 5 levels into the expansion, typically the 3rd dungeon in.

Personally I like it as it somewhat rewards grinding out past expansion, but also it isn’t very hard to gear up by just jumping into the expansion. I would hate to have to full-stop grind out every tomestone set before being able to do the expansion’s first dungeon.

What a nice bait... xD

Not like this was the same with HW, Stormblood and every expansion to come. The first dungeon set/crafted set will be always weaker than the last expansions top gear cause people are given the chance that way to prepare for the next addon by getting their itemlevel up to that point.

So if it's a serious thread...just don't be lazy and farm that gear, especially not at the end of ShB so you can prepare for the moonlanding on zodiark.

I mean... I was dumb enough to run leveling with my astro when it was 79 (had basically leveled if from 70 with pixie quests, no roulettes). Got tired of being stuck at lv 79, signed up for leveling thinking I'll probably get sastasha or something. Got MtGulg. I had augmented scavan and maybe some non augmented pieces (weapon was absolutely non augmented). We did fine. I had no clue how to play astro. Still no wipes. So augmented scaevan should be fine for Mt Gulg.

I've always considered the incremental upgrades on each expansion's leveling path to be a bonus rather than a necessity. Full Augmented Scaevan is fine all the way to 80.

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Originally Posted by VenKitsune

Let me put it this way.

Augmented Scavean Gear is like...i think something around the ball park of 10 less ilvls than what is possible to obtain at lvl 79. 10 ilvls is barely anything.

Secondly, the new expert dungeons dont require you to be at ilvl cap for that patch, further proven by the fact that they drop gear that is utterly irrelevant to most people.

Augmented Scavean is more than suitable to be used all the way until lvl 79, though i will admit it does start to get much weaker in mt gulg but Augmented gear is actually BETTER than dungeon/HQ crafted gear before mt gulg so really...that gear is fine. I've done the biggest possible pulls in that gear, with healers and tanks in that gear, with dps in that gear. The first time i went through the expansion story last july i used augmented scavean/omega gear all the way up until i hit 80, because it was simply just adequette for everything and in many cases actually better.


If someone uses something LOWER than augmented scavean though? Then yea we have a problem, but honestly, it could be worse.

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And one level later you get 430 for free. That's 60 ilvls, not exactly nothing.

The point is you should b upgrading your gear. This game literally throws it at you.

I’ve gotten a couple jobs to 80 with augmented Scaeven gear. Why take the time to upgrade that little bit when I get a free set in one or two more levels?

Does SE need to offer a full set of gear after clearing a dungeon for people to get a hint?

I'm guessing SE implemented things in this way to ensure that no one has to "grind" gear on the way through Shadowbringers. Yes, there's gear available at higher levels along the way, but you either have to buy it, or run dungeons repeatedly to collect it.

They're catering to the crowd with low attention span, who get frustrated and irritated if they have to rerun older content just to progress. Unless they're a tank, older gear will be sufficient to get them through the dungeons, even if they're basically being carried by the other three. And even for tanks, lower gear can work if you pull mobs in small groups.

And if, by poor chance, you wind up in a group with other adventurers who are ALSO using older gear, well, even if the dungeon fails, that's just ONE rerun instead of the MANY required to grind up-to-date gear. That rarely happens, though; the vast majority of the time, you're gonna be in a group with three well-geared individuals, and can get through just fine!

I don't actually endorse this practice, of course, but from a business standpoint I certainly understand SE's desire to avoid alienating customers. It could be argued that allowing these people to mooch is alienating to the more dedicated players - but the fact that they're dedicated means they're less likely to quit and go find another game over such a small thing. It's smarter to cater to the folks on the fence, not the ones entrenched on either side.

Honestly like 85 percent of the people who play this game really suck at it because they don't visit places like The Balance for guides, look up videos for how to play their jobs, and have no idea what they are doing.

The problem you all are experiencing is NOT gear related. I, in FULL augmented scaevan, as a BARD, was doing far more, like WAY more than a blackmage, and then a summoner in MT. Gulg. That should NOT be possible. I did like over 20k on bard or something like that, which is more than sufficient for ONE dps player to be doing.

the BLM and SMN couldn't break over 10k with the BEST aoe rotations in the game.

It's an issue of:
Tanks not using arms length and reprisal with their other defensive CDs on rotation to mitigate trash packs...

It's healers being cure 1, benefic 1, physick bots that are idiots that don't use their good healing tools on a rotation.

It's dps players THINKING they are doing good, but really, not doing any damage at all, like free style SAMs, Ice Mages, RDMs that don't use melee combo with their big nukes, songless bards, DRG's that single target and never use life of the dragon, etc....

It's why I was able to RIP AGGRO from the TANK with the NEW STEROID TANK STANCE as a bard in mage's ballad. This means I was using aoe, and not focusing one mob to overpower their ability to gain threat, they were legit just not using enough aoes on DRK which has INSANE aoe potential.....

The problem is BAD PLAYERS THAT GET CODDLED BY THE TOS AND SE and have NO IDEA what they are doing. .It has VERY LITTLE to do with actual gear. The only time this is an issue is if you are rocking like i380 in SHB dungeons above holminster, then it's an issue for tank, healer, and dps.

The dude that said "healers don't matter they'd just ave to heal more" obviously doesn't heal very much, because your mainstat affects the strength of your heals, meaning at some point you literally will not be able to keep up at all, mathematically.

The difference in gear from Malikah's Well and Augmented Scaevan gear is 12 item levels. (Which would be one of the best gear available to farm before going in to clear Mt. Gulg)

This argument that you're entirely too under geared, to put it into comparison, would be like someone saying you shouldn't go into Puppet's Bunker in 480 gear when 500 is the max right now.

It might require a little more work, but it's completely manageable to clear the dungeon with Scaevan gear.

Have seen this argument in WoW too in regards to heirlooms, which ended up with the heirlooms getting shafted... I got to say that the joy of replacing gear while levelling is a grossly exaggerated feeling. It literally adds nothing to the game than to force players to keep even more armor sets in their inventory than needed.

The complaints about Augmented Scaevan gear really confuse me considering that, at launch, having someone in at least Augmented Scaevan in MT.Gulg was considered lucky because there were no minimum ilevel requirements for dungeons and people would be wearing random 4.X level 70 dungeon gear (i300 to i375) and HoH weapons (i365).

Time for some math.

A full set of i418(Forgiven's) (melee/ranged have the same mainstats, while casters have same main offensive stat but less VIT) gives 3003 STR & 3264 VIT.

A full set of i400(Aug Scavaen/Omega/Voeburt) gives 2851 STR & 3224 VIT.

Substats are much harder to gauge due to the fact that as you go up in levels, each point of substats devalues as the lvlmodifier increases, on top of the fact the gear's stats are all over the place so while one set may have a decent amount of crit, the next set up may have little to none of it, so I'll be talking strictly about the mainstats.

This means going from a full set of scaevaen to a full set of Forgiven's translates to roughly a 5% increase in your offensive mainstat, while giving you about 1% extra VIT(Yes, VIT on SHB gear does indeed scale that bad, the HP value increasing you see as you level is almost entirely the increasing scaling of how much each VIT is worth than any actual VIT you're getting). That's assuming you're also going from literally a full scaevaen set (so literally no other gear from 403-418) to a full set of 418 and nothing less, having even -some- non-400 or 418 pieces mixed in on either side further shrinks the miniscule gap. Skill infinitely matters more to damage/healing/tanking in Mt Gulg due to how small the gap is between Scaevaen & Forgiven's. For a lovely analogy to illustrate how small this gap is in the grand scheme of things: Normal damage variance in this game is 5%.

TL: DR: Lrn2Rotation/Heal/Mitigate, gear ain't carrying you by any stretch of the imagination. If someone is taking tons more damage, doing bad dps, or is struggling to heal normal pulls, ask them if they need tips on how to play their job instead, since that's the actual issue.

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Suspicion is not proof.

Do not assume who the sockpuppet belongs to. It doesn't matter. Take the topic for what it is regardless. You can make your case without shutting down another person's argument just because you assume they made the thread.

I don't even like John and I think you're being completely unreasonable.

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Don't care. Still gonna do it. Nyah nyah.

On a side note, I don't particularly appreciate your singling me out for being "unreasonable" when I wasn't the one initially making a go at him in this thread to begin with.

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The difference in gear from Malikah's Well and Augmented Scaevan gear is 12 item levels. (Which would be one of the best gear available to farm before going in to clear Mt. Gulg)

This argument that you're entirely too under geared, to put it into comparison, would be like someone saying you shouldn't go into Puppet's Bunker in 480 gear when 500 is the max right now.

It might require a little more work, but it's completely manageable to clear the dungeon with Scaevan gear.

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Truth.

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Time for some math.

A full set of i418(Forgiven's) (melee/ranged have the same mainstats, while casters have same main offensive stat but less VIT) gives 3003 STR & 3264 VIT.

A full set of i400(Aug Scavaen/Omega/Voeburt) gives 2851 STR & 3224 VIT.

Substats are much harder to gauge due to the fact that as you go up in levels, each point of substats devalues as the lvlmodifier increases, on top of the fact the gear's stats are all over the place so while one set may have a decent amount of crit, the next set up may have little to none of it, so I'll be talking strictly about the mainstats.

This means going from a full set of scaevaen to a full set of Forgiven's translates to roughly a 5% increase in your offensive mainstat, while giving you about 1% extra VIT(Yes, VIT on SHB gear does indeed scale that bad, the HP value increasing you see as you level is almost entirely the increasing scaling of how much each VIT is worth than any actual VIT you're getting). That's assuming you're also going from literally a full scaevaen set (so literally no other gear from 403-418) to a full set of 418 and nothing less, having even -some- non-400 or 418 pieces mixed in on either side further shrinks the miniscule gap. Skill infinitely matters more to damage/healing/tanking in Mt Gulg due to how small the gap is between Scaevaen & Forgiven's. For a lovely analogy to illustrate how small this gap is in the grand scheme of things: Normal damage variance in this game is 5%.

TL: DR: Lrn2Rotation/Heal/Mitigate, gear ain't carrying you by any stretch of the imagination. If someone is taking tons more damage, doing bad dps, or is struggling to heal normal pulls, ask them if they need tips on how to play their job instead, since that's the actual issue.

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Also truth.

I remember when putting on a set of Ravel gear on my WAR (my last tank to be leveled to 80, therefore by this point I'd acquired the full set by just running the dungeon enough times), my HP didn't even go up by 1k. That's how little of a difference this stuff makes. Same sort of story with the Malikah's Well gear.

Just as it was before with Abania and people with full augmented Shire, the main issue here isn't the gear but people simply not knowing how to play their job effectively. Only when it's stuff that's lower than augmented Scaevan can you really start to blame the gear for their performance.

Really, I've seen people in far WORSE gear then Augmented Scavean running ShB MSQ dungeons, so it's whatever to me.

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Originally Posted by foyboy

I'll get straight to the point: the augmented scaevan gear's item level is too high.

You see people using this abysmal garbage gear all throughout shadowbringers, and despite the fact that everyone wearing it does 0 damage, has 0 health and dies if an enemy breathes on them wrong, this expansion old gear for some ungodly reason allows you to get into dungeons nearly TEN WHOLE levels above 70, with my worst example being a dancer wearing this LEVEL 70 GEAR in MOUNT GULG, A LEVEL 79 DUNGEON.

Please square, for hydaelyn's sake please LOWER THE SCAEVAN GEAR ITEM LEVEL so that people can't get into near max level content with gear from last expac. Thank you.

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As someone about to get this gear. No. This is what's called: Leveling gear.

The problem isn't the gear letting them into the dungeon, it's that they're not doing their rotation correctly once they get inside. If you want people to be better at the game, help them rather than demand they be excluded from the thing that will get them more experience playing their job. Sometimes you gotta put up with a player who isn't that great. Tough.