Dps meters

I am glad they aren't in the game.. coming from WoW I have seen the trouble they bring.

I am confused though.. if dps meters aren't allowed in the game why do I see youtubers from this game showing themselves playing while using one?:confused:

Very good bait thread. I am ready for 500 responses.

Because DPS meters are an excellent tool for self-improvement and sometimes also useful for identifying a grossly underperforming DPS that's holding back a savage group. Unfortunately there's no way to have them but also prevent elitists from using them for their elitist purposes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MPK

Very good bait thread. I am ready for 500 responses.

---

I'm not baiting anyone.. I preordered Shadowbringers but haven't really played much because I went back to an old game. Been back for one month so far so have been watching a lot of tanking videos as I really enjoy Gunbreaker... this is how I noticed.

People you see using them on youtube are using overlays for a certain well known external meter that PC users often employ. I won't say the name of it because it's not supported by Square. Their official stance is to not talk about it in game. Like if you use it just to keep track of your own performance they won't do anything but if you berate others for being bad because of the meter that's against their rules.

Dps meters are a don’t ask, don’t tell thing. Officially banned but they can’t stop you from using them. They will only take action against a player if they admit to using them or use the information from them to cause harm to another or the community.

They know that if they were to totally break them forever, it would seriously harm the raiding community. So, they do this little dance and pretend to not see them unless somebody files an official complaint with evidence showing the use of a parser.

It's a bit of a weird situation. The game has content that very much requires you to be able to optimize your play but does not provide dps meters to do so. As a result SE turn a blind eye to people using third party software to parse their DPS, the only rule is that you are absolutely not allowed to use DPS data to pressure other players, and should also not post anyone's numbers in game.

Same lol dps meters encourage cheating and you can't use dps meters without hacking in this game

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RagingStallion

Same lol dps meters encourage cheating and you can't use dps meters without hacking in this game

---

Hi RagingStallion! Big fan!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnnaUK

I am glad they aren't in the game.. coming from WoW I have seen the trouble they bring.

I am confused though.. if dps meters aren't allowed in the game why do I see youtubers from this game showing themselves playing while using one?:confused:

---

Going to give you the benefit of the doubt and give a serious response...

Officially, all third-party addons/tools/mods are not allowed. Unofficially, there's a very gray spectrum that SE tolerates as long as certain conditions are met. In the case of DPS meters, SE won't action you for just using them. They may action you if you mention using it in game, and are especially likely to come down on you if you use it to harass someone.

High end raiding in this game would not be very viable without the meters - there are a lot of strict DPS checks - and a very large number of high end players would quit if SE strictly enforced the ban. However, Yoshi (the producer) has said he doesn't want to officially allow or support a meter either, as it would lead to PFs requiring that players be able to prove certain numbers and so on.

So if I myself am doing meager DPS I can gradually improve myself as opposed to remaining a detriment in extreme/savage content.

Dps meter thread?

But we're not even in patch lull time. Isn't this illegal?!?!

Can you honestly say that there is absolutely no good possible with a DPS meter? Can you say that they are incapable of serving a positive need?

Why do we have savage content in this game if no one here is ever supposed to care how much DPS the party is using? I mean- I could understand the absence of a DPS meter if there was no savage content. But to have such content without allowing DPS meters is just... hypocritical.

I've seen the PvE leaderboard idea be thrown around as a sort of compromise where it's client side You did #1 dps or you did #3 healing etc. Etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MPK

Hi RagingStallion! Big fan!

---

Why are your standards so low?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gula

Why are your standards so low?

---

He's a great shitposter!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nabril

Can you honestly say that there is absolutely no good possible with a DPS meter? Can you say that they are incapable of serving a positive need?

Why do we have savage content in this game if no one here is ever supposed to care how much DPS the party is using? I mean- I could understand the absence of a DPS meter if there was no savage content. But to have such content without allowing DPS meters is just... hypocritical.

---

It's kind of an iffy area, but I think the answer to both your questions is no. However, the meters are a double-edged sword. Because they can be used maliciously, SE has to prohibit them. There really isn't a way around that. But I wish they would say just that, instead of the comments that hover around not wanting the community to become toxic. I'm not saying that isn't true, but that particular comment seems like side-stepping instead of addressing the issue head on.

The situation in savage is exactly what they want to avoid, because the meters would allow the group to see whose DPS is lacking. Like I said, it's a touchy area. While I personally would want to know if I'm holding the group back, you just never know when you will end up with some snowflake in your group who is going to make things difficult whether they remain in your group or not after they are called out. The meters would just create a mess SE wants to avoid.

In all fairness, the status quo of "I was looking, but I didn't see anything." has been working for quite some time now, and probably just best to let sleeping dogs lie. I think we've had two live letters now since the last time Yoshi mentioned it iirc. If I'm correct, that was likely the last time he will ever address it because he is done talking about it. So long as he is at the helm, FFXIV will never see DPS meters supported in-game, and that is that.

I like DPS meters, but MMO communities suck so we can't have them.

There are better ways to handle this, though. SE's current stance basically just places people who play on console at a severe disadvantage when doing content that requires any kind of optimization.

Just add an official parser that lets you analyze ONLY your DPS, but won't show you anyone else's.

SE could easily put up a Damage healing report at the end of the instance just like the Frontline one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goji1639

Just add an official parser that lets you analyze ONLY your DPS, but won't show you anyone else's.

---

I had a call from Dancers and they said NO :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hysterior

I had a call from Dancers and they said NO :)

---

lol, it's not like Dancers wouldn't get ANYTHING out of analyzing their own DPS; and they can just use threat to pick a Dance partner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

The situation in savage is exactly what they want to avoid, because the meters would allow the group to see whose DPS is lacking. Like I said, it's a touchy area. While I personally would want to know if I'm holding the group back, you just never know when you will end up with some snowflake in your group who is going to make things difficult whether they remain in your group or not after they are called out. The meters would just create a mess SE wants to avoid.

---

Why is this scenario bad though? If someone is woefully underperforming, they should be held accountable. What I never understand about this aversion to DPS meters is even if parses were fully allowed with no restrictions. The ToS still exists. If people harassed someone over their damage, they'd be subject to potential bans just cursing someone out now does. Square's stance is largely because they want to coddle the playerbase. Yoshida has outright said he wants people to pick up the slack for inexperienced players. Which is a mindset that directly contradicts how the community views endgame content outside learning parties.

The irony is without that site everybody knows of, the raid scene would implode within a week. And SE knows it. They're entirely dependent on third party tools they otherwise dislike.

Personnal dps metter that you can only compare to a "ghost" of average/highest dps for same job/fight, possibily also to your best previous performance.
that would do the trick regarding optimization.


Either way I don't care, FFXIV community is cool, care bears compared to other games (league of legends? :mad:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goji1639

There are better ways to handle this, though. SE's current stance basically just places people who play on console at a severe disadvantage when doing content that requires any kind of optimization.

---

As a console player I don't think I am really at a disadvantage when it comes to optimizing. Just run with pc players that parse and upload to that certain site. Even if you are pugging chances are someone in that group will upload the logs. Then go look over your logs and look where you can improve.

Dps meters aren't really that useful during the fight, when it comes to optimizing . Yeah sure you can see your numbers and see where you stand in the group. But they shine the most, after the fight and you are looking over the fight asnd breaking your rotation down, and seeing if you clipped somewhere, or you held a CD to long or your rotation falls apart during a certain mechanic etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Why is this scenario bad though? If someone is woefully underperforming, they should be held accountable. What I never understand about this aversion to DPS meters is even if parses were fully allowed with no restrictions. The ToS still exists. If people harassed someone over their damage, they'd be subject to potential bans just cursing someone out now does. Square's stance is largely because they want to coddle the playerbase. Yoshida has outright said he wants people to pick up the slack for inexperienced players. Which is a mindset that directly contradicts how the community views endgame content outside learning parties.

The irony is without that site everybody knows of, the raid scene would implode within a week. And SE knows it. They're entirely dependent on third party tools they otherwise dislike.

---

I agree that Savage/Ultimate should be an entirely different scene in terms of what's allowed in party interaction. If you want to do progression content you HAVE to be willing to improve, and that involves taking criticism. Protecting people from criticism in Savage makes no sense.

I would assume SE's desire to protect casual players from criticism is mostly focused on the other 99% of the games content, where things are easy and criticism is mostly contentious and pointless. I mean, on these forums I see a lot of people who seem to enjoy nagging and nitpicking casual players in easy content. I can only imagine how insufferable these people would be with parsers they could reference confidently.

I've suggested before SE including a parser, but making it only functional in Savage/Ultimate and on training dummies. It seems like a fair compromise.

This is why I've moved all of my logs to private so no can see crap on that outside site. I've utilized the methods to check my DPS in-game to make sure I can do the content available. I know my rotations, I've got my gear in a good place. I don't feel it is anyone's place to comment on another person's play outside of Savage/Ultimate. People play for their different reasons.

Now, if you are going to enter Savage and can't keep up that is a different story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goji1639

I like DPS meters, but MMO communities suck so we can't have them.

There are better ways to handle this, though. SE's current stance basically just places people who play on console at a severe disadvantage when doing content that requires any kind of optimization.

Just add an official parser that lets you analyze ONLY your DPS, but won't show you anyone else's.

---

Console players are not at a severe disadvantage and I doubt you could ever tell who plays console vs. PC unless they mentioned it. A huge portion of this community play on PS4 and PS4 Pro and do just fine, so I think maybe you should stop thinking we are some poor, horrific playing POS.

As other's stated - Don't ask don't tell. I also think SE may use the information from these top parsers to balance the jobs. So i guess that would be why they don't just ban everyone who uses a parser when they stream, etc. They only will take action if you use parsing against someone in an ill-manner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MPK

He's a great shitposter!

---

Fair enough lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goji1639

I've suggested before SE including a parser, but making it only functional in Savage/Ultimate and on training dummies. It seems like a fair compromise.

---

EX is debatable too but I agree with this. It's a very fair compromise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goji1639

I like DPS meters, but MMO communities suck so we can't have them.

There are better ways to handle this, though. SE's current stance basically just places people who play on console at a severe disadvantage when doing content that requires any kind of optimization.

Just add an official parser that lets you analyze ONLY your DPS, but won't show you anyone else's.

---

I wanted to suggest that, but then people would just ask you to printscreen your dps to prove you can pull it off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnnaUK

I wanted to suggest that, but then people would just ask you to printscreen your dps to prove you can pull it off.

---

People have fflogs to check your parses. He's just suggesting a bandaid fix for console players.

Besides, who asks for peoples parses anyways? Only time that will happen is if you're looking for a static. At that point why would you lie to them?

Man I sure do love low dps individuals joining PF and holding the group back from their goal when they have no idea what they are doing. That feeling of utter disappointment and loathing towards other human beings is fantastic. I especially love when everyone passive aggressively leaves the party after making passive aggressive comments because they can't ACTUALLY address the LOW DPS individuals directly because you know...ToS and all that.

Is this so fun? Instead of being able to address the player and say, "Hey man, doesn't like like you're ready to farm quite yet, and we want a clean run. Maybe practice a little more and next time I run with you and you've improved, we'll take you on np man."

BUT NO. NONE OF THAT can happen. But we can sure BE REAL SILENT AND PASSIVE AGGRESSIVELY DISBAND THE ENTIRE PARTY OVER ONE OR TWO BLANTANT PEOPLE NOT BEING ABLE TO DO DAMAGE, YEP THAT IS THE BEST SOLUTION. Real winning solution right there.

If only there was some way to have a method of setting a party, and letting people you could verify to do the content well, to farm with.... if ONLY such a thing existed, to match similar skilled players with each other, on the low, medium, and high end.... instead of having dps rockstars be forced to be in the same party as the bottom of the barrel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

Man I sure do love low dps individuals joining PF and holding the group back from their goal when they have no idea what they are doing. That feeling of utter disappointment and loathing towards other human beings is fantastic. I especially love when everyone passive aggressively leaves the party after making passive aggressive comments because they can't ACTUALLY address the LOW DPS individuals directly because you know...ToS and all that.

Is this so fun? Instead of being able to address the player and say, "Hey man, doesn't like like you're ready to farm quite yet, and we want a clean run. Maybe practice a little more and next time I run with you and you've improved, we'll take you on np man."

BUT NO. NONE OF THAT can happen. But we can sure BE REAL SILENT AND PASSIVE AGGRESSIVELY DISBAND THE ENTIRE PARTY OVER ONE OR TWO BLANTANT PEOPLE NOT BEING ABLE TO DO DAMAGE, YEP THAT IS THE BEST SOLUTION. Real winning solution right there.

If only there was some way to have a method of setting a party, and letting people you could verify to do the content well, to farm with.... if ONLY such a thing existed, to match similar skilled players with each other, on the low, medium, and high end.... instead of having dps rockstars be forced to be in the same party as the bottom of the barrel.

---

Yeah and your toxic if you mention someone is bringing in low damage (which a lot of times you don't need a parser to notice) or if the person isn't getting the mechanics, and you just let them know, hey you might be better off in a learning party instead of a clear party, till you hav3 a better understanding of the fight (just because you cleared a fight once doesn't mean you are ready for a clear pary..). But that person isn't toxic for wassting seven other people's time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tdb

Because DPS meters are an excellent tool for self-improvement and sometimes also useful for identifying a grossly underperforming DPS that's holding back a savage group. Unfortunately there's no way to have them but also prevent elitists from using them for their elitist purposes.

---

Basically this. FF14 has an ask but do not tell policy. If you use a DPS meter to harass another player such as "lol man yo dps on ACT so trash it reminds me of your mother go off yourself" then do not be shocked if you can get reported under the harassment policy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

If only there was some way to have a method of setting a party, and letting people you could verify to do the content well, to farm with.... if ONLY such a thing existed, to match similar skilled players with each other, on the low, medium, and high end.... instead of having dps rockstars be forced to be in the same party as the bottom of the barrel.

---

Well, a dps rockstar should be able to shoulder some of the burden from someone who is performing a little below average but is at least trying. Maybe the rockstar could even use their combat parser to check what the other player is doing wrong and give helpful tips.

When the rockstars only want to be grouped with other rockstars, that's called elitism and it's the thing SE is hoping to avoid by prohibiting dps meters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tdb

Maybe the rockstar could even use their combat parser to check what the other player is doing wrong and give helpful tips.

---

If only it were that simple lol. Identifying helpful tips is the easy part.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tdb

Well, a dps rockstar should be able to shoulder some of the burden from someone who is performing a little below average but is at least trying. Maybe the rockstar could even use their combat parser to check what the other player is doing wrong and give helpful tips.

When the rockstars only want to be grouped with other rockstars, that's called elitism and it's the thing SE is hoping to avoid by prohibiting dps meters.

---

@the first paragraph, not calling myself a dps rockstar, but this is how I've always interacted with other players when playing games that allow dps meters. I can't tell you how many people I've adopted and dragged to a dummy to do drills after randomly grouping with them. Takes a village, you know?

@the second, unfortunately, elitists will find any way to exclude people from playing with them. Without hard numbers to look at, they usually find the excuse of non-meta comp to exclude people, or requiring high level drops (usually from the thing they're clearing), kicking people on their first mistake, and actually using a parser but not telling anyone and just kicking people without context so they don't know what was going wrong even harder.

I'm gonna post this on every thread about parsers 'cause i truly think it's a good compromise to people wanting something to gauge their performance, vs SE being absolutely terrified that some people might have to use the block button, and that's wildstar's end of instance private ranking indicator:
https://i.imgur.com/LoY5jWj.png
No one sees your rank, it just tells you how you measured up compared to your party, and it's at least a good starting point for those players who may really need a wakeup call that ice maging, freestyle samuraiing, and hardcasting 6s spell rdms are not valid ways of playing with other players.

You won't see1, too many casual players can't take criticism

Jesus Christ, how many more DPS meter threads are going to be made? You'd be better off just looking at an older thread instead of making a new one and watching it devolve into another shouting match between two sides making the same points they made previously.