About needing to do The Light of Hope for A Time to Every Purpose

Sorry but, having to do the ENTIRE Crystal Tower quest chain before I continue story through 2.55 is idiotic.

I just wanted to get my MCH and level it as soon as possible. I want to do a raid because I want, not because I HAVE TO.

I don't know if it's relevant to Shadowbringers or not, but before this requirement didn't exist. C'mon...

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Originally Posted by Khold

Sorry but, having to do the ENTIRE Crystal Tower quest chain before I continue story through 2.55 is idiotic.

I just wanted to get my MCH and level it as soon as possible. I want to do a raid because I want, not because I HAVE TO.

I don't know if it's relevant to Shadowbringers or not, but before this requirement didn't exist. C'mon...

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They had announcements, it was on the lodestone and in the launcher now for a week.

It is 100% story relevant.

Can you skip it with Tales of Adventure: Stormblood

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

They had announcements, it was on the lodestone and in the launcher now for a week.

It is 100% story relevant.

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What about players who don't care about the story?
Mandatory MSQ is standard progression structure for MMOs, so I don't have a problem with it here.

Forcing players through a entire raid questling however, is not.
What's the point of streamlining ARR if more work is going to be required in the end?

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

What about players who don't care about the story?
Mandatory MSQ is standard progression structure for MMOs, so I don't have a problem with it here.

Forcing players through a entire raid questling however, is not.
What's the point of streamlining ARR if more work is going to be required in the end?

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But it is for FFXIV, it always was that way, unlock stuff with story, that is what differs FFXIV from other MMO's, not want such then people should not play FFXIV simply, this is and always was a more story focused game, you can't blame a game for such sicne it clearly showed such in every aspect.

If you not want story then this is the wrong game for you, it is like you play a sports game and complain there is no strategy part or so, you can't maek every game the same, why else play something different?

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

What about players who don't care about the story?

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Without any sarcasm here, one would probably be better off playing literally any other mmo. Story is kinda the big draw.

What about those of us that care nothing for Raiding did enough of it in wow

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Originally Posted by Saix027

But it is for FFXIV, it always was that way, unlock stuff with story, that is what differs FFXIV from other MMO's, not want such then people should not play FFXIV simply, this is and always was a more story focused game, you can't blame a game for such sicne it clearly showed such in every aspect.

If you not want story then this is the wrong game for you, it is like you play a sports game and complain there is no strategy part or so, you can't maek every game the same, why else play something different?

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This game has millions of players.
I think it's fair to say that everyone plays the game for different reasons.
You may call it a story based game, I will call it an MMO.

I've completed this game's entire MSQ multiple times and I never even paid attention to the story the first time.
I still find plenty of enjoyment in this game, and have subscribed for years.

The bottom line is this game really doesn't need anymore mandatory content period.
I already have several friends stating they would started the free trial but refuse to do a raidseries(And some of them even stated they would rather have done the filler quests instead).

If it's such a big deal the story, SE should point out and strongly recommend players to complete the crystal tower series to understand the story, but DON'T FORCE THEM TO DO IT.

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Originally Posted by Stepjam

Without any sarcasm here, one would probably be better off playing literally any other mmo. Story is kinda the big draw.

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Once again, this game has millions of active players.
I'd bet my service account that plenty can find enjoyment without focusing on the story.
I know I sure do!

Sarcasm aside, if people wanted a good story, I'd suggest for them to read a book.
Video games are primarily meant to be played first and foremost.

Even for those that are Gung-ho about Final Fantasy plotlines, forcing clears of an entire raid questline is not the way to go.

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Originally Posted by Jazmyn

What about those of us that care nothing for Raiding did enough of it in wow

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The whole thing will take you an hour... max. Suck it up and just do it.

Yup.. now we have "too much content".

Considering they have removed several hours of "Fedexing" quests.. is requiring a line with an actual instance to play a huge request?

Honestly it's not a huge ask. It's all faceroll now with the current ilevels. You'll likely be running it with people who aren't watching cutscenes anyway so you can skip till your hearts content.

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Mandatory MSQ is standard progression structure for MMOs

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Uh, not really.

Most of them make the lore something optional to discover if you want, but if you want to do dungeon running or raiding, you dont need to.

People are probably looking at a little over an hour max between queueing and actually doing these raids. It's not a big deal.

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

What about players who don't care about the story?
Mandatory MSQ is standard progression structure for MMOs, so I don't have a problem with it here.

Forcing players through a entire raid questling however, is not.
What's the point of streamlining ARR if more work is going to be required in the end?

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The thing is, it's not really side content any more. They've essentially made it part of MSQ, even if it doesn't have an MSQ label on the quest cards. It's just a different thread of the story that you can choose to complete before or after the other quest line, like a large-scale version of them giving you two simultaneous MSQ quests you can do in either order, but you do need to have done both.

There was always the requirement to stop MSQ and pursue the three hard-mode primals around that point too. (Is that still there or did they merge that into MSQ better?)

I assume it's still there.

And who knows, they may make more stuff mandatory over time. Namely I suspect that the Warring Triad may one day be mandatory if they ever want to make the kid do stuff in MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The thing is, it's not really side content any more. They've essentially made it part of MSQ, even if it doesn't have an MSQ label on the quest cards. It's just a different thread of the story that you can choose to complete before or after the other quest line, like a large-scale version of them giving you two simultaneous MSQ quests you can do in either order, but you do need to have done both.

There was always the requirement to stop MSQ and pursue the three hard-mode primals around that point too. (Is that still there or did they merge that into MSQ better?)

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They're still required as far as I know.

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

This game has millions of players.
I think it's fair to say that everyone plays the game for different reasons.
You may call it a story based game, I will call it an MMO.

I've completed this game's entire MSQ multiple times and I never even paid attention to the story the first time.
I still find plenty of enjoyment in this game, and have subscribed for years.

The bottom line is this game really doesn't need anymore mandatory content period.
I already have several friends stating they would started the free trial but refuse to do a raidseries(And some of them even stated they would rather have done the filler quests instead).

If it's such a big deal the story, SE should point out and strongly recommend players to complete the crystal tower series to understand the story, but DON'T FORCE THEM TO DO IT.

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Doesn't really matter how you call this game. It doesn't change the fact that, first and foremost, it's a story based Final Fantasy game. You may like it, or hate It, but that's how It is

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Originally Posted by lolicon09

Doesn't really matter how you call this game. It doesn't change the fact that, first and foremost, it's a story based Final Fantasy game. You may like it, or hate It, but that's how It is

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It's an MMORPG with a extra emphasis on story.

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Originally Posted by Stepjam

I assume it's still there.

And who knows, they may make more stuff mandatory over time. Namely I suspect that the Warring Triad may one day be mandatory if they ever want to make the kid do stuff in MSQ.

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I dearly await the day. He's been stuck in plot limbo for far too long.

I've decided for the meanwhile that he's doing the admin tasks that used to be Minfilia's job, since they do passingly mention somewhere in 3.5/4.0 that they don't want to tie up one of the main Scions with that role.

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

It's an MMORPG with a extra emphasis on story.

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It's a Final Fantasy MMO. One does not exists without the other on the final product.
Like it or not, this is how it is. And the strong emphasis on the story is one aspect of the FF series.

Besides, at best it only takes 1h to complete the whole raid.
It's absolutely nothing.

Time spent whining on forums is time you could spend on just doing it.
You do it once and you can forget it.
Any story related content will look awful to play to someone who doesn't care to the story.
Doesn't mean it shouldn't exist cause, that's one of the most enjoyed part of this game.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

It's a Final Fantasy MMO. One does not exists without the other on the final product.
Like it or not, this is how it is. And the strong emphasis on the story is one aspect of the FF series.

Besides, at best it only takes 1h to complete the whole raid.
It's absolutely nothing.

Time spent whining on forums is time you could spend on just doing it.
You do it once and you can forget it.
Any story related content will look awful to play to someone who doesn't care to the story.
Doesn't mean it shouldn't exist cause, that's one of the most enjoyed part of this game.

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I don't need to clear it, I'm apparently exempt from the requirement due to already finishing ARR.

I'm merely advocating for those who don't wish to be forced into completing an alliance raid series, such as OP.

I am also certainly not saying the Crystal Tower series should exist, I know SE employed real people to write the story and it would be a shame for no one to experience their work.

I just firmly believe SE should have gone down the route of strongly suggesting players(In-game naturally) to complete the raid series as opposed to shoving it down their throats.

In any case, I digress.
If it's a large enough issue for new players, SE may cull the requirement.

If not, that's fine.
I don't want to shame people for enjoying the story.

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

I don't need to clear it, I'm apparently exempt from the requirement due to already finishing ARR.

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You're only exempt until you hit the second layer of gating at the start of patch 5.3, specifically intended to catch anyone who missed the first gate.

The first gate in 2.5 is the ideal place to have played the CT story since that's when it's supposed to happen in the overall plot. It ensures that people have seen the events of CT before characters and/or concepts from that story are reintroduced to the MSQ first at Lv60 then Lv70. For a player who does want to experience the entire story, this will ensure that they don't miss what seems to be an unimportant side story at the time but makes a big difference to your understanding of events later on.

However, it is not critical at those story points if the player hasn't yet played CT, because despite adding valuable context it doesn't actually need to have happened for continuity's sake. The story will make sense either way so long as certain things are written with script that is ambiguous or changes according to your personal progression. Thus it remained optional initially.

5.3 is where that ambiguous approach runs out. Certain events there cannot take place without the events of CT having happened first to create a particular situation. Therefore, by the approach the game takes to any content that builds on earlier events, this is where you must do CT to ensure the story's pieces are in the right place before the MSQ builds on them.

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

Once again, this game has millions of active players.
I'd bet my service account that plenty can find enjoyment without focusing on the story.
I know I sure do!

Sarcasm aside, if people wanted a good story, I'd suggest for them to read a book.
Video games are primarily meant to be played first and foremost.

Even for those that are Gung-ho about Final Fantasy plotlines, forcing clears of an entire raid questline is not the way to go.

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millions meaning pleasing everyone is impossible and your aware of it, the alternative is *spoilers* the exarch talking about events that never happened

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

It's an MMORPG with a extra emphasis on story.

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... what's the issue, then?

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Originally Posted by Jirah

millions meaning pleasing everyone is impossible and your aware of it, the alternative is *spoilers* the exarch talking about events that never happened

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Well, they got away with that in 5.0 because... (5.3 spoilers also under cut)

...Shadowbringers' plot ultimately works the same even if you haven't played CT - at least if you don't look at it too closely - because of the time travel aspect. The script adjusts to the scenario that you haven't yet been to the tower or met G'raha Tia but you (other-timeline you) will/would have at some point in the future shortly before the Calamity hit. The events of CT definitely happened in the Exarch's past, whether or not you have yet experienced them in the present. Thus the script can be altered to fit either scenario, even though the canon version has CT happening first.

It can't work the same way in 5.3 because the events here and now require CT to be completed first. You can't plan to open up the present-day Source's tower and awaken G'raha if he's not in there yet.

What exactly is the problem here? Everything in the game is already MSQ gated. Anyone playing that "doesn't care for story" still has to progress MSQ. Progressing MSQ already requires running dungeons and trials. As faceroll as the CT raids are, this doesn't seem significantly different from any other requirements.

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

I don't need to clear it, I'm apparently exempt from the requirement due to already finishing ARR.

I'm merely advocating for those who don't wish to be forced into completing an alliance raid series, such as OP.

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The "raid" content you speak of is on par of length, wait, and difficulty wise with same level smaller instance content. This isn't some ramp up in participation or skill reqs. Other than "I don't like how many people are on the screen"... what is the problem?

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

I am also certainly not saying the Crystal Tower series should exist, I know SE employed real people to write the story and it would be a shame for no one to experience their work.

I just firmly believe SE should have gone down the route of strongly suggesting players(In-game naturally) to complete the raid series as opposed to shoving it down their throats.

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When something becomes canon, most storytelling artists will not want giant plotholes in their stories. FFXIV is proud of it's story and wants a comprehensive experience for those who pay attention and enjoy the flow.

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

In any case, I digress.
If it's a large enough issue for new players, SE may cull the requirement.

If not, that's fine.
I don't want to shame people for enjoying the story.

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I have never seen them REMOVE a quest req for a major plot point. And the characters involved are now MAJOR plot points.

I don't think this is going to change, and if anything I think situations like this will happen MORE.
A lot of the sidequest content/characters are interesting enough that they could extend the story of them into something bigger, i.e a patch or an expansion.

Is this one of them bait threads?

I heard the reddit version was deleted after OP got flamed so hard they ran away.

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Originally Posted by Khold

Sorry but, having to do the ENTIRE Crystal Tower quest chain before I continue story through 2.55 is idiotic.

I just wanted to get my MCH and level it as soon as possible. I want to do a raid because I want, not because I HAVE TO.

I don't know if it's relevant to Shadowbringers or not, but before this requirement didn't exist. C'mon...

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Honestly, it doesn't take too long. I was bored last week and figured I'd do the NG+ for the Crystal Tower story to finally read the story after all these years. Took me a couple of days, but that could easily be squeezed into one if you just hammer through it. It will also be better now that you can fly in Mor Dhona (will cut-back the time on all that back and forth running).


And hey, I get the other complaints. I am not a fan of 100% of the MSQ being forced on you, but that's a rant for another thread. In this case, it's really a minimal amount of effort required. Some chatting with NPCs, bit of back and forth running and a few 20 minute raids and you're set.

Hey, it could be like before they fixed how to unlock them and made you wait around for fates. Now the quests and the raids themselves are pretty faceroll if you really don't care about the story of them. The "I don't like raiding" response means nothing because old 24 man content can be done without much effort at all.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

You're only exempt until you hit the second layer of gating at the start of patch 5.3, specifically intended to catch anyone who missed the first gate.

The first gate in 2.5 is the ideal place to have played the CT story since that's when it's supposed to happen in the overall plot. It ensures that people have seen the events of CT before characters and/or concepts from that story are reintroduced to the MSQ first at Lv60 then Lv70. For a player who does want to experience the entire story, this will ensure that they don't miss what seems to be an unimportant side story at the time but makes a big difference to your understanding of events later on.

However, it is not critical at those story points if the player hasn't yet played CT, because despite adding valuable context it doesn't actually need to have happened for continuity's sake. The story will make sense either way so long as certain things are written with script that is ambiguous or changes according to your personal progression. Thus it remained optional initially.

5.3 is where that ambiguous approach runs out. Certain events there cannot take place without the events of CT having happened first to create a particular situation. Therefore, by the approach the game takes to any content that builds on earlier events, this is where you must do CT to ensure the story's pieces are in the right place before the MSQ builds on them.

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Oof, how unfortunate for me.
Well thanks for letting me know, I honestly had no idea.

I'll get around to that eventually... after I start the first quest available after 'ShadowBringers'.

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Originally Posted by Jazmyn

Can you skip it with Tales of Adventure: Stormblood

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Probably not since the Crystal Tower quest is still separate from the MSQ. If I remember correctly, players who used the ARR skip still had to do Ifrit and Garuda Hard to unlock Titan Hard for post-HW MSQ. I imagine this will be the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Probably not since the Crystal Tower quest is still separate from the MSQ. If I remember correctly, players who used the ARR skip still had to do Ifrit and Garuda Hard to unlock Titan Hard for post-HW MSQ. I imagine this will be the same thing.

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I bought an ARR story skip a while back and I think the three hard mode trials were all unlocked but not marked complete, though the unlock quests were, so I might have had to clear them before I could pick up the Extreme versions. There was some kind of oddity like that, anyway.

The skip unlocked Lv50 dungeons but not raids - which in my case was good since I'd skipped ARR specifically to replay CT before Shadowbringers.

Maybe they'll change that now, but you'll have to wait and see. Or you can just consider it MSQ and get on with it like any other quest that needs doing.

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Originally Posted by Jazmyn

What about those of us that care nothing for Raiding did enough of it in wow

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You can totally crush the Tower by this point. Everyone vastly outgears all 3 parts even when synced, so it takes no time at all. If it were the mechanic heavy Mhach raids I guess it’d be an issue then.

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Originally Posted by Jazmyn

What about those of us that care nothing for Raiding did enough of it in wow

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I admit I'm not entirely clear on what raiding in WoW entails, but coming to this game with no other MMO experience (I mostly play RPGs and such), the Crystal Tower raids just feel like big dungeons. There are a few instant-death mechanics that will inevitably catch out newcomers, but most of the fights have been trivialised by the increases to ilevel since they were introduced.

In any case the core importance of getting you to do the raids isn't the raids themselves, it's the storyline that you can't see through to completion without getting through those raids along the way.

If it's that offensive to you why not just buy some story skips?