I'm raising my tanks right now and hoo boy 8/10 times I do a duty I get a White Mage that uses Medica 2 no matter what the healing situation is. If I'm at 5% HP, Medica 2. If I'm at 100% HP and so is everyone else, Medica 2. I understand it's a HoT and some healers use it during pulls so they can DPS more, but is it really worth it for that? Why not just put on a Regen? Medica 2 is 100 potency per HoT tic, and it tics 5 times, so 500 potency in total for the HoT. Regen is a total of 1,200 potency with 6 tics. The time spent casting a Medica 2 could just be spent casting a Cure 2 which gives 200 more potency than the Medica 2 and takes the same amount of time to cast. I'm purposely ignoring the initial 200 potency that Medica 2 gives, but if I didn't it would still be the same amount of potency as a Cure 2.
Is there something I'm missing about this skill? I feel like I'm going crazy from the amount of times I'm seeing Medica 2 being cast. Why is every healer I'm being matched with using it for big tank pulls where the focus is single target healing?
What's with Medica 2
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08-09-2020, 09:46 AMGhostXOWhat's with Medica 2
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08-09-2020, 10:14 AMEclipse12187
To put it bluntly, they’re bad. Throwing medica 2 up pre-pull is almost all going into overheal and can cause issues with initial aggro when pulling mobs in dungeons. In raids most fights open with a raidwide but the bulk of the healing from a precast medica 2 would have been burned by then. Personally it can be a bit of “I can buff my party!” Combined with ast and sch having prepull shields but anyway, medica 2 is used when you can afford to spend the time to let the regen work. If the regen doesn’t have enough time to work, whether it was used prepull when there’s no damage out or when people are already topped off then it was a pointless and wasted cast.
Just throwing this out there since I’ve had someone say I “wasn’t healing enough” because I was using glare when no damage was out so out of pettiness I left 100% uptime on medica 2. They still died (was a not mitigating tankbuster issue). -
08-09-2020, 12:32 PMUrthdigger
Not sure, I think a lot of people see "Oh hey AoE regen!" and fail to look at the numbers. The regen amount is LAUGHABLY small. Granted, it's an effective option for if the entire party needs heals and it doesn't need to be right now, but if only one person needs to be healed or if heals need to be spammed there are FAR better options.
Though, it's not only healers who fall into this trap. I once had a tank tell me I should be keeping Medica II up on them full time XD -
08-09-2020, 12:48 PMQooEr
Because theyre bad. i kind of wish overheal was shown in the game so people would see their spells are doing nothing
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08-09-2020, 12:54 PMItMe
That's like a SCH that only casts Galvanize :D
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08-09-2020, 03:06 PMKDSilver
You don't miss anything.
They're just not reading the tooltip and made the calculation.
They just thought "it's a regen" and that's it. -
08-09-2020, 03:33 PMLariaKirin
You're definitely missing something, because you provided no context. We can't speculate on the motivations of a "hypothetical WHM who uses Medica II" without context.
"Why is every healer I'm being matched with using it for big tank pulls where the focus is single target healing?". I don't buy it. -
08-09-2020, 05:40 PMGhostXOI don't really mind if you don't buy it, because this is just my experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by LariaKirin
I was just curious! Chill~ I play healers often, but mostly SCH/AST. I was wondering if there was some reason WHMs keep doing this. It's just become a pattern. An odd one. -
08-09-2020, 07:32 PMEloahI think I get what you mean, but what you said doesn't make sense, since there is no way to "only cast Galvanize".Quote:
Originally Posted by ItMe
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08-09-2020, 10:43 PMItMeHahahah, whoops. You're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloah
I tend to think of adloquium as my galvanize button lol -
08-09-2020, 11:20 PMLiam_Harper
It's a crutch. Their idea is that keeping a HoT on the entire party will handle all the healing for them. Then they don't need to target people or react to damage, they just spam this every 15 sec and hope for the best. WhM is typically seen as the "easy" healer and attracts players with a lazy mindset even more. They love this carry ability.
Sadly, it often "works" too. A healbot WhM playing their class entirely wrong, overhealing like crazy, doing barely any damage and missing half their oGcd toolkit can get parties through most content from 1-80. In their eyes they're doing fine. A lot of people will even comm them because they see so much HoT and associate that with good healing. I even see healbot WhM's in Savage with 10+ clears. The game is reinforcing that bad playstyle constantly. -
08-10-2020, 03:32 AMKurando
Think it depends on the situation, it's common to see newer players using Medica II when it's not necessary, and some even using Cure III thinking it's more effective that Cure II. Though these kinds of habits really should stop by time the player has spent X amount of time in the game and figured out what is most effective. Saying this, I've had a few players in lvl 80 duties precast regen so there is always someone somewhere that makes you question the DF.
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08-10-2020, 05:20 AMAnotherPerson
I had to tell that to a WHM who was co-healing with me to give them advice about how Medica II works because they were emptying out their MP way faster than they should. Some people think Medica II is just stronger because it's the second healing version like Cure II vs Cure but in reality it's the HoT that makes Medica II preferrable over Medica and they don't realize HoT from Medica II doesn't stack with itself.
The only times I would use AoE regen in addition to regen is when I have to play with undergeared tank in a dungeon run and their armor is really poor. HoT works as a subtle HP barrier assuming they don't get deleted. It allows the healer time to do other things or hardcast a heal if the tank should have died in 1.5 seconds rather than 2 seconds. These are really huge edge cases that really work around ARR lv 40 to lv 49 dungeons. Beyond ARR content, healers get access to oGCD healing so it's not so much of a concern.
However, GCD healing is always available, so when people panic, they usually end up defaulting to this. -
08-10-2020, 07:32 PMBlueMageQuina
I see more and more of this in ShB than ever before, especially since SE reworked tanking so that tank stance is generally all the aggro any tank needs. WHMs throw Medica II pre pull whether you’re in a dungeon or a trial, in casual or in savage, and now ASTs in Diurnal Stance have slowly started to follow suit.
As a WHM main, this irks me to no end. This is one of my two great pet peeves in a cohealer: prepull healing / needless overhealing. If the battle hasn’t even begun, why are you casting Medica II or Aspected Helios? It almost always falls off before the first raidwide anyway, so please explain yourself. Do you really miss Protect that much? (I do too, sad face.)
The MP issues the overuse of Medica II generates is what is most worrisome to me. I understand that the healing ticks are comforting to inexperienced or undergeared healers, or in new content, but this runs quickly into having very little resources when you need them. This is related to my second pet peeve: healers who don’t cast Raise. Sometimes they prefer to DPS instead, some wait for Swiftcast because the party will just all perish violently if they so much as thought about hard casting, some are just plain inattentive—then there are those healers, the ones we’re talking about, who are out of MP because they’ve casted 17 Medica IIs / Aspected Helios in the first seven minutes of the alliance raid.
This is unnecessary and it’s problematic for me, your cohealer. And in four man content, this is why you’ve taken aggro and died before the tank realized that entering the duty has turned his tank stance off. -
08-11-2020, 12:18 AMHikari_Kishimoto
They probably do not have enough information about their skills.
Ofc Medica 2 is not the most helpful spell in any kind of situation.
They also might just be panicking when the tank drops at 5% health and press what comes to mind first. -
08-11-2020, 04:13 AMGemina
It's an outdated skill at 80. Arguably outdated at 70. WHM simply has better and more efficient means to restore MP both with the GCD as well as their MP. It still remains a very useful skill when synced to lower content, and if this is where you were seeing this WHM cast it, then I don't really see a problem with it.
Even if they are still using it at 80... Meh. Seriously. Such a silly thing to gripe about unless they're deliberately spamming it like a troll. -
08-11-2020, 05:17 PMSebazy
It's a comfort blanket mechanic, much like teddy bear braking going into a corner on a motorbike.
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08-11-2020, 08:10 PMNoryll
Personally with my experience playing WHM in any non-savage/non-extreme content, I use Medica 2 a lot.
Mainly because what would I rather do? Use only regen and then basically have to do Dia > Glare > Glare > Cure > Glare > Glare > Cure, etc.
Or would I rather just do Medica 2 > Regen > Dia > Glare > Glare > Glare > Glare > Glare > Glare, etc.
More often than not, keeping both regen's up covers the damage tanks take in most content to where I can focus on pumping out as many Glare's as I can instead of worrying about targeting back and Curing. At least from personal experience that's how it's worked out and been for me.
My opener even in current content (which isn't perfected cause I don't do Savage) is pretty much: Medica 2 to put it on the tank (and possibly cover the first roomwide if it's early) > Regen > Assize > Dia > PoM > Glare spam for the entirety of PoM or until extra healing is needed like in certain alliance raid bosses with slow starts (like Engels in Copied Factory).
So no, Medica 2 is not always just a bad WHM's crutch, I use it cause it covers that tiny bit extra that Regen doesn't cover so I can focus on pumping damage at the same time, rather than having to occasionally Cure because Regen isn't enough at times. I do see other WHM's just use it at unnecessarily and then don't even do damage, but there is reasons to use it for more than just the obvious. -
08-11-2020, 08:36 PMSaefinn
I agree in that I think people use it as a crutch. I don't think a lot of people think about overheal or optimising their heal kit, but perhaps think a constant up time is a good thing because it means if damage is taken then they will get topped off by it.
Safety netting your heals is useful if you're not confident in dealing with unexpected damage or are learning.
Scholars do it with Galvanise and this is the closest WHM has that's not on a cooldown.
It is all in the game of playing it safe, even if might not be necessary.
But I am surprised that it is all, but you might be being hyperbolic? -
08-14-2020, 08:54 AMEkimmak
Alright, consider me the terrible White Mage, as very recently, it's what I was doing.
Here's the story: I haven't really levelled White Mage that much. But my mother plays the game, and she's really not good with trials or raids. So, when the main scenario demands trials, I do them for her. Now, the healer I know better is Scholar, but I'm familiar enough with White Mage.
So, the recently released trial needed to be done. And I really am not familiar with the level 80 WHM toolkit.
The other healer is a white mage. So there's no sort of shields from all the raidwide damage. Medica 2 is my go-to mass heal here, because I know there will be mechanics requiring intensive healing over a short period of time, while mechanics I need to dodge are happening. I can't really stop and stand still, and people are constantly dying, so Swiftcast isn't available for any sort of bursty healing.
I use Medica 2 in advance, so that it has a few ticks of healing keeping everyone from dying to Pyretic while I'm busy backing off out of telegraphs. If I'm not supposed to use that, then what do I use instead? I'm not being sarcastic, genuinely, how should I be mass healing when there's massive damage going out in rapid succession? -
08-16-2020, 03:08 AMUrthdiggerIf massive heals are needed back to back, use Medica. Medica does more immediate healing, Medica II is only really useful if there's at least 9 seconds or so between damage, preferably at least 15. In any case, the topic was more about WHMs using it in inappropriate situations as just "This is what I push always." So, spamming it back to back, using it when only one person needs healing, just trying to keep the buff up 24/7, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekimmak
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08-16-2020, 09:06 PMLiam_HarperNot really. Medica II equals Medica after 3 sec and beats it after 6. Medica II is actually a decent ability and much more useful than something like Succor when you need to GcD. One reason WhM is beginner friendly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urthdigger
You generally only use Medica at 80 under all the following conditions.
-Medica II is already applied
-The party is too spread out for Cure III
-You have no lilies
-You didn't have Plenary or Temperance for the Medica II, forgot them or they still weren't enough.
-The party is not topped off and another heavy aoe is coming very soon or Doom is ticking and will kill everyone.
This situation is quite rare, to the point that I haven't used Medica in months.
Afflatus Rapture. Prep Temperance and Plenary Indulgence to give it juice if needed. Use 2 Raptures if really needed for the big aoes. The nice thing with Rapture is it's instant, so you can do all this while moving. Once you get a feel for a fight, you keep a few lilies handy for these points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekimmak
Things like Pyretic are party responsibility, iirc that's the debuff where you're meant to stop attacking? It's not your fault if you're burnt out on lilies because they stand in everything, your co-healer is twiddling their thumbs, you have to move and they all mess up another mechanic.
There are options though. Slidecasting out the telegraph. If they aren't scattered in headless chicken mode, pop Asylum down just before. If only one or two players got hit, Tetra+Bene. If no one's dead, Swiftcast Medica II to let you cast while dodging.
And to be completely honest, if your pre-cast Medica II HoT ticks actually let the party survive a mechanic they wouldn't have otherwise and you aren't just blindly spamming it all fight, good job. It's not the most optimal route but you made a decision that let the party live. You'll become more familar with efficient healing as you play more and get used to the toolkit. -
08-17-2020, 12:33 AMVeis_AlveareBut they specifically gave context?Quote:
Originally Posted by LariaKirin
Like they mentioned it being used when they were at 5% HP (a bad use) and when everyone was full (another bad use) so clearly they've seen multiple, unrelated issues with the use of the spell.
I wonder what kind of context would satisfy this sort of question? Like a detailed breakdown of this person's every interaction with each WHM in question?
Way to be argumentative for no reason.
For what it's worth as to the actual OP I think this happens because some people think things they get later on must be better. Medica II is a level 50 ability I think so clearly it's better than they silly Cure II they got back at like 30. -
08-17-2020, 10:30 AMRae88Medica has a 1000 mp cost and 300 potency, medica 2 has a 1300 mp cost with an immediate 200 cure potency plues 100 regen ever 3 seconds. Medica has more limited uses than medica 2, and people advocating for medica to be used more widely are doing so on the basis of the old system where medica 2 would rip aggro off the tanks. This isn't a concern anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urthdigger
Really medica heals for so little you're either topping people off with medica, which is frowned upon, or you're spamming it because of consistent AOE damage, which is more the correct usage. And it's quite rare, a plenary/temperance medica 2 is very powerful.
But at the end of the day, 2 medicas is 600 potency. A medica 2 is 700 potency overall. If you used two medicas instead of a medica 2, you just used 700 more mp and wasted a GCD.
Definitely more of an old ability these days :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper