Should Melee gear be ...homogonized?

(the following post shall assume that Limited Jobs don't exist)

Okay I think I mentioned before that I want new jobs to share gear with DRGs and NINs (though with the caveats that a new healer be released first and the glam plates are extended to account for at least the combat jobs), but I want to, in yet another fit of devil's advocacy. Ask if a proposal to make new gear under the Slaying label (as opposed to the Maiming/Striking labels) and lumping NIN gear into either that or Aiming would be more palatable.

The Slaying gear is the umbrella term for gear that covers all STR melee jobs but is only used for accessories. The idea is that all melee jobs would share gear with everyone else int heir category much like Healers, Ranged, Tanks and Casters do.

The pros of this change would be...

1. More clear cut role division. Going off the bonus lists and other factors there are 5 roles in the Game, but going off of armor categories, there are around 7 or 8 (Crafting/Gathering aside) With only one category for Melee (inc NIN) there would be a clear correlation between the role bonus and the gear as there would be 1 category for role instead of melee having three to itself.
2. Job quantity: with this several issues related to job quantity would be solved. As it currently is having an equal amount of jobs per role would be that some gear categories would have less jobs than others (currently Maiming and Scouting have 1 each and Striking has 2. Casting, Aiming and Healing have 3 each and Fending have 4) yet having there be an equal amount of jobs per gear category would lave melee outnumbering the other roles 3 to 1. Folding all the melee gear onto Slaying gear would solve this issue, as again 1 role, one gear category, and would also mean that we would only need one Phys Ranged, one Caster and Healer for an equal amount of jobs per role.
3. A double edge sword but the new Slaying gear would have a more diverse set of aesthetics as it would have to tailored to the aesthetics of Maiming (Knights), Scouting (Ninja, scouts,themes) and Striking (martial artists and samurai)
4. Less items in dungeons for glam hunting. Folding 3 gear categories into one means that the chest would have less armor, which means that there would be less gear in the way if you're hunting dungeon gear for glamour or if you're raiding

Of course there are also some drawbacks to it as well.

1. Homogenization of flavor and gameplay: There's a reason I put that word n the title. The melee jobs all have a distinct flavor that affects their gameplay. NIN uses knives and evolves from the Rogue class, so they scale of DET instead of STR and uses Aiming's aesthetics more ofthen than not. DRG likewise are knights, so their armor not only shared aesthetics with Fending, they also have higher than average defenses. Folding all the melee into one category of gear would be that they would have to average out 4 stats and the aesthetics would be inconsistent and they would have to alternate between the meele's differing aesthetics (but conversely it also means that NIN, MNK and SAM for example would have access to more knightly glamours, as previously mentioned). Point being that the Slaying gear would have to have STR, DET and high defensive stats (bar NIN being retooled to scale of STR or being folded into Aiming but that would mean that that gear set would have 2 more then Slaying and 1 more than everything else)
   • the alternative to averaging out these stats would be that that some stats would be weighted towards different jobs, which would create a disparity for BIS to a higher extent than other jobs.
2. Some mats might slightly lose value. For high end crafting gear, several ALC concoctions are used, with each of them being centered on a given stat. The melee gearsets thus have armor that favors the ones focused on STR and DET with 3 and 2 gearsets respectively per tier. Furthermore, less armor means less crafts for either ARM, WVR or LTW depending on the tier

With all that said I will now open the discussion. Do you think the melee gear categories of Scouting/Maiming/Striking should be consolidated into new Slaying gear or stay separate (likewise do you think Scouting be folded into Aiming gear)?

I can’t name a single thing in FF14 where the “H word” would fix anything

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

[*]A double edge sword but the new Slaying gear would have a more diverse set of aesthetics as it would have to tailored to the aesthetics of Maiming (Knights), Scouting (Ninja, scouts,themes) and Striking (martial artists and samurai)

[...]

With all that said I will now open the discussion. Do you think the melee gear categories of Scouting/Maiming/Striking should be consolidated into new Slaying gear or stay separate (likewise do you think Scouting be folded into Aiming gear)?

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The aiming gear is a horrible pit of things that struggles, and often fails, to fit the aesthetics of more than one aiming job at once. It's really hard for me to make glams for BRD or MCH because of this.
Wanna make a new MCH glam? Have fun digging through Robin hood costumes and skimpy dancing outfits.
I would NOT like the same thing to plague the melee classes.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

I can’t name a single thing in FF14 where the “H word” would fix anything

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This is a case where it actually would. Melee are currently the only jobs where it takes longer to gear the entire role. With the exception of Black Mage (spellspeed and all), you can swap to any job within the same role and it be fully geared and ready to go outside your weapon. Except for Dragoon and Ninja. If you main either, you'll need an entirely separate left side; and in the case of Ninja, your right side will be for a completely different role. This used to be much worse before the coffer system change since you got get Maiming drops from Savage that were completely worthless if no one played Dragoon.

Before anyone argues aesthetic. Dragoon and Ninja frequently share aesthetic with tanks or range/monk. So it isn't like they have a unique look that often—which has been the excuse given when people have brought this up before. If the dev team were really set on keeping the divide, it'd make more sense to move Samurai over to Maiming and Ninja over to Slaying. At least then, you'd have two jobs in the melee role sharing an entire set of gear.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

The aiming gear is a horrible pit of things that struggles, and often fails, to fit the aesthetics of more than one aiming job at once. It's really hard for me to make glams for BRD or MCH because of this.
Wanna make a new MCH glam? Have fun digging through Robin hood costumes and skimpy dancing outfits.
I would NOT like the same thing to plague the melee classes.

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The glamour argue was always silly but it's laughable now given how Dancer doesn't fit into almost any of the tome, dungeon or savage gear they've been releasing.

I mean, I think they should at least consolidate it into two (not like Scouting and Striking new that much difference) and then expand the other categories into having two each. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

The glamour argue was always silly but it's laughable now given how Dancer doesn't fit into almost any of the tome, dungeon or savage gear they've been releasing.

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You might think it's a silly argument, but it's something that really bothers me.
And like you said, it shafts DNC extra hard because none of the gear pre-70 was made with Dancers aesthetic in mind.

It would be nice to unclutter the loot tables and increase the odds of getting a relevant drop.

You don't need to remove gear or anything. We can keep what we have right now with a minor change:

- NIN can use aim gear and DNC/BRD/MCH can use scout gear too.

- DRG can use striking gear and SAM/MNK can use maiming gear. (Sure, physical defense must be standardized in this case but I consider that a very minor compromise).

It's not perfect but better than what we have now IMO.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

You don't need to remove gear or anything. We can keep what we have right now with a minor change:

- NIN can use aim gear and DNC/BRD/MCH can use scout gear too.

- DRG can use striking gear and SAM/MNK can use maiming gear. (Sure, physical defense must be standardized in this case but I consider that a very minor compromise).

It's not perfect but better than what we have now IMO.

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I feel like I should clarify s few things.

1. I'm not advocating removing existing gear, rather that future gear be designed to be used by all melee jobs
2. More to the point, NIN actually did share Striking gear when it debuted, but only up to a certain point.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

I feel like I should clarify s few things.

1. I'm not advocating removing existing gear, rather that future gear be designed to be used by all melee jobs
2. More to the point, NIN actually did share Striking gear when it debuted, but only up to a certain point.

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I'm aware of both of your points. Just happens that one counter-argument, already used, is "less gear". Something like that is a nice compromise without changing much, at least IMO.

It's something I've been wanting, yeah. I think I am okay with all melee DPS sharing gear. It has the collateral of making it easier to itemize multiple jobs at current tier but I don't think it is unfair to say, as it is now, most people really just want to make sure a job or two or role is up to date and the rest they'll get to whenever. And even then, tank mains like myself or caster or healer mains have already enjoyed this luxury.

So really, the biggest concern is aesthetic diversity. A valid concern, though it's worth noting that this kind of change would almost certainly only be done with a new expansion at some point in the future, if it ever happened. This means you already have years and years and years worth of gear I assume would be normalized and opened up to anyone of that role to equip.

I get why people are worried with how relatively little ranged gear is dancer-like, though I think all the current melee stuff has a lot of pre-installed diversity. Going forward, if theoretically they only do one set of slaying gear for all the melee, they'll just look at where things are undersaturated and try to add more gear with later waves. Honestly we already have a lot of melee gear that is sharing appearances across stat set or DRG gear with tank gear so I am not going to pretend a lot would be lost.

Monk and Ninja should have shared gear (Fast attacks / Light armor)

Dragoon and Samurai should have shared gear. (Heavy attacks / Medium armor)

Be done with it.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

You might think it's a silly argument, but it's something that really bothers me.
And like you said, it shafts DNC extra hard because none of the gear pre-70 was made with Dancers aesthetic in mind.

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I meant it's a silly argument for the Melee when dev team obviously doesn't care about aesthetic given how little consideration Dancer's received. To better phrase it, either aesthetic is important, thus every job should be considered, i.e. tome gear made for Dancers. Or it doesn't matter at all, in which case, they can't use it as an excuse for not syncing all the Melee gear into one set.

I never understood why all the melee dps needed separate sets when every other role only had 1 set for it. There is no reason for drg to have more defense than the other melee since they still die in a few hits anyway. Just make them all 1 armor set. They did it with accessories already.

So instead of:
-Tanks
-Dragoon
-Monk/Samurai
-Ninja
-Bard/Dancer/Machinst
-Healers
-Magic dps.

It should be:
-Tanks
-Strength dps
-Dexterity Dps
-Healers
-Magic Dps

Loot tables wouldn't be excessively cluttered and it would keep gear bloat down more. We don't need every armory chest slot looking like main hand weapons.

No thanks. I like it as is.