Conjurer advanced classes?

To start off discussion in the new conjurer forums!

Yoshida has mentioned that he wants to either add advanced classes or specialization classes for each class. Most likely to be traditional final fantasy classes such as white mage or black mage.

So the discussion what advanced/specializations do you believe Conjurer will have?

I feel like Conj is obviously a Nuker and a healer. THM is more like the debuffer.
Conj will probably be the Blm and Whm sub, but they can add a buffing class to it too.
I'm interested in how they will implement it. Must we choose between the two (BLM/WHM) ? Can we still be both specs somehow? If they make us choose one class, will we need to level the other to 50 again?

Well tbh, I think THM should be the dedicated Healer/DeBuffer since its AOE cone is defintely much suitable for healing, while THM also has more of an upper hand when landing debuffs with succession.

CON on the other hand, defintely hits a bit harder when nuking and has the dedicated "Ancient Magic" spells. But it also has those status effects removals that belong to a WHM, so I dont know ; ;

Yeh it does seem like THM could be RDM and CON = whm/blm, I would prefer conjurer being primary nuker, but still keeping its current set of spells.

If they increase the cap, maybe only supply thm with Sacrifice 4 but dont have Conj cure 4.

Think i have to agree, Cnj = Blm & well Thm = Rdm.
Or atleast let both of the classes pick which kind of Progression "Path" they want to take,
Something like...
* THM > RDM or WHM.
* CNJ > BLM or WHM.

Personally i think i'd prefer if there were specific skills or something you could pick to learn to follow a skill tree of sorts? a whole completely new class after getting con or thau to 50 seems... kinda tedious right now, especially when (at least for me) i'm leveling several other classes already in order to get traits / skills to buff up my Conj.

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Originally Posted by Laughlyn

Think i have to agree, Cnj = Blm & well Thm = Rdm.
Or atleast let both of the classes pick which kind of Progression "Path" they want to take,
Something like...
* THM > RDM or WHM.
* CNJ > BLM or WHM.

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That sounds look a good idea

I hope they just leave mages the way they are. You can respec with a macro.

I just want my BLM outfit from the producer letter!

Adding specialization like this would be a nice way make a magic damage dealer more viable without simply buffing CON. I also wouldn't dismiss THM's damage-dealing potential. Shadowsear hurts. A lot.

I would enjoy this because it would make CON what I anticipated it would be way back before the betas before I ever played the game when I had hoped that CON would be this game's DD caster. Instead it's just a grey mage that has the spells but doesn't do much with them other than prot./shell/cure.

since SE announced the JSE to add further uniqueness to the classes they might really have to change some aspects of con and thm.

I dont mind con having buffs but thm should have some stronger ones in return, to make him more the mainhealer/enfeebler.

Playing con and thm atm i feel "jobless". Con is almost useless as nuker in NM or bigger fights on higher enemies. Even with lotsa int and piety added.
That should change imo. I rather have spells with a longer casting time, if they have
1) a nice effect to look at - bigger differences between the tiers of the spells as well.
2) great impact on the mob - also hate, so you have to watch out (wouldnt be fun if not)
3) since they are the masters of elements, they really should have a different casting animation - thats cosmetics but still its an HD game.

The fact that protect and shell is a conjurer spell is a bit weird since as mainhealer i would rather go as thm for debuffing and healing, but then my buffs wear so fast, and my cure isnt powerful. (Lancer also doesnt have a shield ability you have to equip as tank... if im not mistaken- so why split the mages that way)

Giving the con some more devastating spells and taking away healing (he can still equip it with lesser impact from thm lvled) and the buffs, epic animated AM spells etc,
will make it acutally feel like a nuker. This way ppl also would love to have BOTH in party.

thm - if he gets the cures and buffs as main, not from con - its a pretty nice job.
But in party i dont feel any different from a conjurer, since i spam healing usually - big boss fights or nm fights are not really taken place so often yet, so im not really enfeebling often - and if, its just "nice to have" not important at all - which it should be.

The description of THM doesnt really fit either imho... i never felt like:

"thaumaturgy can be a force of terrifying destruction. At the heart of this school of magic lies the ability to call forth and command the latent aether within oneself through deep introspection"

Maybe that is something to be worked on. give him more Death-life-like spells, also special nukes, perhaps master of hard DOTs or dark-light spells with additional effects.
give him a death shadow to fight along his side when hes more there for debuffing, and give him some fairies flying around him to increase his healing output or so...

something that makes me FEEL the job. (not the cute average healer with a little "pewpew"- ok as lala can be a bit cure ofc ;) ). Acutally, its all ffxi spells distributed almost randomly on the 2 mage classes. there are no new, unique spells. And there should be more of them. (of course there will always be a lot of spells the same or similar, but im missing the uniqueness)

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Originally Posted by Anty

...Playing con and thm atm i feel "jobless"....

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Great post Anty. I only have one thing I disagree with that I've quoted above. You do have a job, grey mage.

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Originally Posted by TempestReve

Personally i think i'd prefer if there were specific skills or something you could pick to learn to follow a skill tree of sorts? a whole completely new class after getting con or thau to 50 seems... kinda tedious right now, especially when (at least for me) i'm leveling several other classes already in order to get traits / skills to buff up my Conj.

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Ya this sounds good.

I'd like to see jobs defined by their gear. If as a Conjurer you equipped the white mage set, you'd get +10 heal potency. If you equipped the black mage set, you'd get +10 magic potency.

This could be done with any class (gladiator, ninja and paladin sets, pugilist, monk and thief sets, etc.)

I'm more interested in which one will turn into summoner.

One of the biggest losses form XI to XIV is the player having moments with their characters. In XI when you played your WHM or BLM you had to level to become a summoner. This adventure to not only get to become a Summoner but all the missions to get your other summons was a moment that anyone who took that path will always remember. I know many of us from XI miss that in the game..That proud moment where your class changed and you went into combat and did your first big AOE. What ever solution in the future should really take into account for all jobs not just the Conj or THM.The game does not sell moments well at this point. The functional aspects of the game will be fixed..But the Core of Final Fantasy is the emotional moments in the IP...I hope this helps and Its just my thoughts. But thank you for the post this is a good way to start.

I think they should strip the healing from both THM and CON and make a third mage class. So it can be more like FFXI with WHM, BLM, and RDM. Why change something that works?

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Originally Posted by Cig

I think they should strip the healing from both THM and CON and make a third mage class. So it can be more like FFXI with WHM, BLM, and RDM. Why change something that works?

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I, for one, would love to have a pure healing class in the game, though that actually can happen now by mixing and matching conj and thaum spells.

I'm more expecting what Grog said will happen, though. Classes can keep their customization, but by equipping certain JSE, can focus more on specific aspects of the class.

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Originally Posted by JaxPalion

One of the biggest losses form XI to XIV is the player having moments with their characters. In XI when you played your WHM or BLM you had to level to become a summoner. This adventure to not only get to become a Summoner but all the missions to get your other summons was a moment that anyone who took that path will always remember. I know many of us from XI miss that in the game..That proud moment where your class changed and you went into combat and did your first big AOE. What ever solution in the future should really take into account for all jobs not just the Conj or THM.The game does not sell moments well at this point. The functional aspects of the game will be fixed..But the Core of Final Fantasy is the emotional moments in the IP...I hope this helps and Its just my thoughts. But thank you for the post this is a good way to start.

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Hi Jax,

Great post! :)

I totally agree. FF XIV is *missing* those great Character Moments, where you feel like you're progressing and growing with them. I remember Summoner as well, and earning each Summon. Or trying to earn the harder spells as White Mage or Black Mage in the game.

Here, you're given some spells at every other Rank and that's about it. :(


As for Advanced Classes, it makes total sense (and I hope), Producer Yoshida gives us:

* Conjurer Rank 50 --> Advanced Class: Black Mage or White Mage (choice)


Whatever choice we make, we can also go and learn the other choice as well (so get Conjurer to 50 --> choose White Mage Advanced Class, but you can also switch over and learn Black Mage Advanced Class later if you want).

And SUMMONER, yes please! ;)

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Originally Posted by Neptune

I hope they just leave mages the way they are. You can respec with a macro.

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I agree although I wouldnt mind seeing a few more mage options such as Blue or Summoner of some kind.

To me it seems that just from the word Conjurer, it's natural progression would be in to the world of Summoning. I wouldn't mind seeing the Smn class come back, however tweeking would need to be done so as to not make it overpowered. Even if its only just one summon creature it would be nice to see it come back.

If SE opted for the specialization route, multiple classes could have the same trees. CON and THM could both have a White Mage tree that vary slightly from one another. For example, THM/WHM might get stronger light-based nukes and HoTs while CON/WHM would get stronger direct heals and buffs.

If they went with the advanced class system, which, if I understand it correctly, suggests that we would need to level specific classes up to unlock them, I see CON a much more likely prerequisite for WHM, assuming there is just one. Thaumturgy is pretty dark.

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Thaumturgy is pretty dark

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^ The quest for thau are anyways, though to be fair - the conj quests dont really seem very white magey on their own either, they seem more like elementalists or something since they are always so keen on emphasizing the sacredness of the wood and such. If SE is considering doing advanced classes, I think Conj would better fit Elementalist / Black Mage with the spells they are using.... (if anyone played FF tactics, elementalist had healing spells as well - granted they weren't named Cure ).

As for Thau i have NO idea... their spells are so much like rdm/drk i don't know how that could be divided up while still keeping it predominantly a mage. To be fair i never played Scholar, are any of the Thau spells similar?

I think of CON as SCH right now which could lead to a BLM or WHM specialization in the future. I can also see Green Mage if they add that as well, buff class in FFT

TY TY Kiara! :) Big Hugs

Just the name alone means "to bring forth" or "summon" .. not to mention the whole deal with shaping and control elemental energy. Granted they did give CON a ton of white spells too. So I see the advanced jobs as Summoner/White Mage.

Black mage should be off THM imho. They have some crazy burst and the ability to hit all/most mobs with that cast.

CON AoE doesn't lend itself well to large scale encounters for DD or heals unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Ghalith

Thaumturgy is pretty dark.

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Well Thaumaturgy does have a few Light/Holy spells like Banish, Dia, and Sacrifice(and Resurrect?). The story makes them seem so dark though. It's like they made Conjurer a Black Mage and Thaumaturge a Dark Magic using Red Mage and gave them random White Magic. I would like to see a dedicated healer/White Mage job though. They made the two DoM classes too hybridizacised(I know that's not a word but you know what I mean lol).

Hi, everyone. I've done a bit of thinking about this one, and I really feel like 'advanced' classes can go one of two ways...

1) You reach a certain level (let's say, level 50 for simplicity) and are asked to choose a 'specialization'. From that point forward, your 'class' is split into two (or more!) and they level separately with different weapons and abilities.
Or...
2) You reach a certain level (assuming it's 50 again) and you undergo a 'difficult' quest to unlock other jobs... similar to the way you unlocked 'advanced' jobs in FFXI... except it's higher than before... or perhaps they'll add it at a lower level (when they DO add it).

Or, there's a third scenario... it could be a mixture of both!

As far as right now, I see CON+THM in a very clear way.
CON: Direct effects. Direct healing, direct nuking. (The two most obvious examples are WHM and BLM.)
THM: Indirect effects. Buffing, enfeebling. (The 'main' en-feebler would obviously be a RDM, but what about someone that specializes in buffing? Perhaps a BRD would be the best equivalent?)

A WHM specializes in healing, but could still do a little bit of damage... a BLM specializes in damage, but could still do a little bit of healing. Same with an en-feebler and buffer. A bard was obviously best at buffing, but they had a few important enfeebles too... a RDM was great at enfeebling, but had some irreplaceable buffs...)

The most important thing to note here is the fact that like with all things SE produces, these classes are heavily dependent on each other. Yeah, a Conjurer or a Thaumaturge could heal or do damage alone... but TOGETHER, they are the ultimate team.

As far as summoner -- and believe me, I'm looking forward to pet classes too -- perhaps that will be an 'advanced' class unlocked through one (or both!) of these classes. Summoners in FFXI were more or less the 'jack of all trades' in many situations. They could do damage, heal, buff, and enfeeble... They weren't the masters at anything, bu they could pull off most things... and that is where they came in useful. What if that class requires you to 'master' the entire discipline of magic before unlocking it?

I'm thinking other classes will branch off in a similar way. Will a Lancer become a Dragoon and a Samurai? What about a Ranger and Beast-master from archery? Will a combination of a melee class and a magic class mean you can play BLU? Only time will tell, but I think the most important thing to ponder is whether or not these 'advanced classes' will be unlocked and then count as a completely new class, or if they will be continuations of one class once you reach a certain level.

One thing's for certain: The best part about FFXI (compared to other MMO's) was the stories and the sort of identity you got because of it. With many different classes to choose from, you were KNOWN for your job (at least before everyone leveled 3+ 75's). Those 'moments' that were required to excel at that job really defined you and the people that went through them. Each combination of classes had a way of working together (remember when people specifically looked for certain classes to achieve certain skill-chains?)... And I hope that comes back.

As for FFXIV -- I love, love, LOVE the changes they've done thus far in functionality. It's more enjoyable to play... the only thing really missing besides a bit of sprucing up is the lack of special 'moments'. The 'community' feeling is already there.. now we just need the glue to keep it together. (I'm sorry for being THAT corny. It's 2AM where I am.)

And finally, I'd like to mention the fact that I think the classes were made in such a simple way at first is because they were rushing to get the game out. It was easier to shove all of these different abilities into one class (until 50, which probably won't remain the cap) than to separate them into many different ones when they had plenty of other things to worry about. I have a lot of confidence that these classes WILL split (or be added to) eventually... the only question is when.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

I hope they just leave mages the way they are. You can respec with a macro.

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Originally Posted by AngelOfDestruction

I agree although I wouldnt mind seeing a few more mage options such as Blue or Summoner of some kind.

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Originally Posted by Shadowedge

I, for one, would love to have a pure healing class in the game, though that actually can happen now by mixing and matching conj and thaum spells.

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Originally Posted by TempestReve

the conj quests dont really seem very white magey on their own either, they seem more like elementalists or something since they are always so keen on emphasizing the sacredness of the wood and such.

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One of the things I like from having played the game so far is that you can swich so easy between the classes. So when I get bored playing on class I can swich to a nother one just swiching weapon. I also like the option that you can make your "own" caracter. And re-specing with macros ís optimal and fun.

That way the player could make a "Summoner" if they add diffrent summon spells to the game. And they could make a "elementalists" if they add more diffrent types of elemental damage spells to the game. And you could make a fun healer if there are a enough variation of healing spells.
So basicaly i comes down to how many diffrent spells there exists.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

One thing's for certain: The best part about FFXI (compared to other MMO's) was the stories and the sort of identity you got because of it. With many different classes to choose from, you were KNOWN for your job (at least before everyone leveled 3+ 75's). Those 'moments' that were required to excel at that job really defined you and the people that went through them. Each combination of classes had a way of working together (remember when people specifically looked for certain classes to achieve certain skill-chains?)... And I hope that comes back.

As for FFXIV -- I love, love, LOVE the changes they've done thus far in functionality. It's more enjoyable to play... the only thing really missing besides a bit of sprucing up is the lack of special 'moments'.

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I think Ryuko hit the right spot.
There are many subjective advantage with "advanced class names":
1) Communication - If people see from you class that you are a ranged DPS class you don't need to explain when you get into the party that you don't heal.
2) Identity. I can be realy fun with thinking yourself into a special class.
3) And special 'moments' like Ryuko spoke about.

Having a few unique abilities that set you a side can also be a good thing, that makes you feel special :)

I think you can get that without liminting the current system to much.

I think Conjurer should have 4 advanced classes that gives it flavor.

Elementalists - Conjurer are about elementals: Wind, Water, Lightning, Fire, Earth, Ice. Conjury calls upon elemental forces present in nature and concentrates them to a potency at which spells can be weaved. There should be the following advanced classes:
*) Light Elementalists. Focused on Lightning and Fire. Focused on dealing direct damage from distance.
**) Translucent Elementalists. Focused on Wind, Ice and Water. Focus on controlling the enemy by making them not beeing able to move.
***) Healthgiver ( or possible Earth Elementalists). Absorb the power from the nature (earth) using it to heal. A dedicated healer.
****) Summoner of Elementals. Using elemental forces present in nature to summon earth elementals, fire elementals, ice elementals, water elementals and air elementals (lightning and wind combined).

Well im glad at least that others are finally seeing the connection of Conj and elementalist in some of the older Final Fantasy games. They don't need to change names of the classes, the quests (as you do them) show you what you are.

As for Macroing what you need depending on the situation, im going to press more on this the example of the 8-15 man parties where there are multiples of Conj / Thau classes in the group. The reason i like the way the game is currently because with the sheer amount of spells and abilities you get from all the classes, you can easily make sure to fill all the niches. A Party i was in the other day was 9 people, 4 of which were mages (3 Cons and a Thau at around ranks 40-45). 1st con focused on main healing and using their ranged attack, 2nd Con focused on keeping the party members constantly buffed and crowd control while also throwing an odd cure on the mages to heal up from sacrifice, 3rd Con back up healed and nuked, and the Thau debuffed and nuked. it worked wonderfully. no one was ever low on mana, everyone had something to do during the fights, and without even having to ask, everyone set what they had to cover everything that could happen and needed to be done. And all of this without having to be shoved into an exclusive job niche - 3 Con's; 3 different way of playing.