6.0 jobs

so with an upcoming expansion on the horizon we can kind of guess we know we will get another healer since we only have 3 if we say get another tank and no dps role added do you think they would take that time and re evaluate some dps roles for a rework or a refresh?

Monk is the clear choice for the job that needs major work the most. The forums are a testament to the serious problems people have had with the job for multiple expansions. If they somehow ignore multiple consecutive expansions of negative feedback for basically every design decision they made in Stormblood and in some cases design that dates back Heavensward and ARR then the forums will probably catch fire.

About Monk - i have leveled it some time ago to understand all these complaints, i have expected total disaster, but it's not that bad. It's actually pretty good. But it's definitely not flawless, it has a bunch of abilities you can just remove from hotbar, since you will most likely not use them anyway. But there is no need to rework it, just adjust it.

There are jobs with bigger issues, especially tanks (maybe beside PLD, even GNB with its club SFX needs help) and healers, if devs won't adjust them (and they won't, because it requires effort), it means we will have insane queues in 6.0.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cetek14

About Monk - i have leveled it some time ago to understand all these complaints, i have expected total disaster, but it's not that bad. It's actually pretty good. But it's definitely not flawless, it has a bunch of abilities you can just remove from hotbar, since you will most likely not use them anyway. But there is no need to rework it, just adjust it.

There are jobs with bigger issues, especially tanks (maybe beside PLD, even GNB with its club SFX needs help) and healers, if devs won't adjust them (and they won't, because it requires effort), it means we will have insane queues in 6.0.

---

This is a thread about which DPS job needs work, not Tanks or Healers. As far as the topic goes, there's no DPS job in need of work more or which has been in need of work longer without receiving it than Monk. There's no DPS job less happy with their Shadowbringers iteration, no job that had literally none of their problems from Stormblood addressed, no DPS job less played in all content (barring TEA), and no DPS job less leveled than Monk.

It also doesn't matter that Monk "Plays fine" or "Works fine". That's been the same reason people who don't play the job spew for three expansions now as to why Monk doesn't need fixes when the job's actual playerbase knows that it absolutely does. Monk lacked basic functionality in Heavensward that never got fixed leaving it to rot for the entire expansion. We despised the Stormblood changes but they didn't get fixed during Stormblood or even on Shadowbringers launch. They made a single token fix to a problem they acknowledged on Stormblood's launch nearly two years after the fact but every other aspect of Stormblood's design philosophy is unchanged and we still hate it. The Shadowbringers actions are nearly as bad as Stormblood and have introduced the most cancerous opener the game has ever seen.

You can at best say the tanks are in the same boat, they all work fine and play fine. None of them are remarkably weaker in the way that Heavensward Paladin was, but the big difference is none of them have been putting up with this for as long as Monk has. None of them have skills that are useless for what they're designed for like Anatman which also create miserable openers.

Monk needs a huge overhaul and the community pretty much agree with it. The job is an even worse mess than SB MCH due to a mistake named Anatman. Even if it was removed, it would remain the worst job of ShB. It's the priority Number 1.

I hope SMN/MCH work is only half-done, because there is much to do on these jobs too. Pets still needs a lot of work.
SMN has great interactions with its pets but the abilities are clunky and pet AI needs a huge work.
On the other side you have MCH/DRK like pets, they are the best pets as they don't suffer from clunkyness. But you can't interact at all with these, which makes them Glorified Dots. They're boring and annoying to deal with as you can't even change the target, if there's multiple target, it can hit the immune one until its end.

MCH had a great rework but it was halfway done.
-Flamethrower, not granting heat, is useless as ever and boring when usefull (Press the button, wait 10s, who had this idea?)
-Wildfire has no interaction, you use it and perform as usual. It's as good as a 120 damaging CD.
-Gunplay and heatgauge are extremely boring. Hope they'll get rid of the "Spamming moment" that exists in WAR, DRK and MCH kits.
-Lag was not fixed on MCH, 1.5s GCD with weaving inbetween. If you have a bad connection you can't properly play MCH

I don't expect but hope for a overhaul of the ranged role. Ranged role brings no utility, only silencing which a tank can also do. Their raidwide mitigation is the weakest when it used to be the strongest.


TL;DR:
MNK not only need a rework, if the job stays that way it'll be DOA.
SMN/MCH reworks needs to be finished. DRK/WAR are fine but I think the community would welcome a bit more depth.
BRD also needs love.

I'm not sure why we would assume that we would get a 5th tank while two dps roles are still at 3, as well as we just got a tank in 5.0

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cetek14

About Monk - i have leveled it some time ago to understand all these complaints, i have expected total disaster, but it's not that bad. It's actually pretty good. But it's definitely not flawless, it has a bunch of abilities you can just remove from hotbar, since you will most likely not use them anyway. But there is no need to rework it, just adjust it.

There are jobs with bigger issues, especially tanks (maybe beside PLD, even GNB with its club SFX needs help) and healers, if devs won't adjust them (and they won't, because it requires effort), it means we will have insane queues in 6.0.

---

There is not a singular job in this game with bigger issues than monk. Especially not Tanks and Healers. Issues with the current SHB iterations of Tank/Healers are literally issues Monk has had for years. It's getting tiresome to constantly have people that barely play the job (if they do at all) constantly claiming the job as being fine expansion after expansion but the moment another job has the exact same issue it's suddenly a huge problem that needs to be resolved asap. Redmages complaining about niche skills in reprise/engagement, Samurais Shoha complaints, Healers/Tanks complaining about the loss of skills/complexity, etc are issues monk has been dealing with for years. And yet, somehow when you bring it up as a problem on monk, the response is always some variation of "Monk is fine".

Monk has continually taken a backseat to every single other job since Heavensward and has been left with issues that have existed since ARR. If monks issues were resolved as quickly as other jobs they would not have compounded to the point of the job needing a complete rework and rethink. The devs have admitted to continually not knowing what to do with monk. 6.0 is their chance to essentially start over. A clean base that can actually be built on instead of around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyrius

so with an upcoming expansion on the horizon we can kind of guess we know we will get another healer since we only have 3 if we say get another tank and no dps role added do you think they would take that time and re evaluate some dps roles for a rework or a refresh?

---

I sincerely doubt SE will ever launch an expac without a new DPS job. Simply, too many people play such jobs, too many people would be disappointed with no new addition. I think it is more likely we'll see double-DPS additions in 7.0 or beyond again than we'll ever see no new DPS - particularly with trusts there to take pressure off queues.

But I'd also expect SE will rework jobs that attract the most complaints, as is their usual MO.

They need to fix their own jobs before adding new ones, Monk is definitely a priority in that regard. It has been ignored for far too long because of the dev team's terrible attitude toward it.

While I have zero faith in SE giving us anything worthwhile for MNK in 6.0, I am definitely hoping that since the dissatisfaction for the class is at its most vocal it has ever been, that their hand will be forced into overhauling it.

Seeing the complaints for MNK here gives me hope the devs will listen and actually fix MNK or rework. I really hope MNK gets acknowledged in the next live letter as a job that will receive adjustments.

The current monk is a traveling ad to legalize euthanasia ,no one/class deserves to suffer as much ,by the fist of Rhalgr just let him go already .. I mean each expansion(and disappointment) you end to expect nothing , you just say yourself quietly ''it can't be worse'' until you see a skill video that make you lie , the moral is , devs always could do worse
so delete it or reset , that's much easier to create than try to improve a failed content
(sorry for my engrish attempt )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BasicBlake

I'm not sure why we would assume that we would get a 5th tank while two dps roles are still at 3, as well as we just got a tank in 5.0

---

true i forgot to look at that if they did add a 4th would it be magical or physical ranged we did just get dance so maybe another caster?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyrius

true i forgot to look at that if they did add a 4th would it be magical or physical ranged we did just get dance so maybe another caster?

---

Because we just got dancer in 5.0 I would say it is a pretty safe bet to say a caster and a healer will be coming

What type of caster could they realistically add though? We have the main archetypes (dot spec and caster spec) and RDM fills a gap as a bit of a proc/burst spec class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kydi

What type of caster could they realistically add though? We have the main archetypes (dot spec and caster spec) and RDM fills a gap as a bit of a proc/burst spec class.

---

I mean they keep adding stuff into the game for Geomancer. I mean other games have worked around getting passed one dot spec caster, one pure caster, and then whatever you would consider red mage. They have the technology and skill to make whatever they end up picking, work well.

I mean shit they put 4 melee into the game, considering at the end of the day you're just hitting something with a weapon, alongside whatever the class gimmick is. If they can make 4 melee dps feel unique and different that can do that with casters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kydi

What type of caster could they realistically add though? We have the main archetypes (dot spec and caster spec) and RDM fills a gap as a bit of a proc/burst spec class.

---

I'm pretty positive they can come up with something. In terms of aesthetics there are more than enough jobs to add after all. Healer and Ranged Magic DPS are what we should get, if they care about the way they set up the roles at least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kydi

What type of caster could they realistically add though? We have the main archetypes (dot spec and caster spec) and RDM fills a gap as a bit of a proc/burst spec class.

---

There are definitely options to explore.


Channeling - There could be something to explore with channeled abilities (like Flamethrower on MCH). Wouldn't be the most engaging so it would need to be combined with other things. Perhaps make it so channeled spells aren't interrupted with oGCDs. Maybe include a rune system where you channel a spell and use runes to augment it to keep it going by continuously changing the element which functions as its own elemental wheel for a semblance of a rotation. Each time the element is changed the channel becomes stronger and when you finish your elemental wheel you could get a burst channel that incorporates all elements. A special rune could fill up a Xenoglossy-esque attack for damage while moving where the longer you've been channeling the stronger the attack is.

Ground-placed/Totem - They took away a lot of the ground-placed AoEs which leaves an area be explored. Maybe give the ability to shrink or expand them to make smaller fields deal more damage. Trigger them to explode like Earthly Star/Wildfire at will to compensate for phase changes or end-of-fight use. If you wanted to have more a melee-range experience for a mage, maybe they could alter some of your own spells while standing in the area of effect. This kind of aligns with FFXI Geomancer, actually. They had a totem called a Luopan that could provide buffs to people, explode for damage, explode for healing etc. While that wouldn't work 1:1 in XIV, the base idea could be altered to fit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kydi

What type of caster could they realistically add though? We have the main archetypes (dot spec and caster spec) and RDM fills a gap as a bit of a proc/burst spec class.

---

There was also a Geomancer mock up made recently that had them with positionals for their spells ending in channeled spells for a finishers. Now that would be an interesting new take.

I want to add that meme about it being too long and now I’m afraid to ask............but I’m gonna ask it anyway, what is wrong with monk?

I am genuinely asking cos I really don’t know, I’m levelling all jobs to 80 so it’s currently 55 so haven’t got the slightest clue what is wrong with it to ask for a rework of the whole job?

I thought the storm blood version was good, it definitely wasn’t a mch mess back then.
Can someone explain to me or at least point the way for me to see. Thanks

P.s I do t usually play fist like jobs so haven’t really levelled it because of that. Prefer big axes and swords and stuff.

Summoner needs to lose its raise. Do that and I'll be happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForgottenScholar

what is wrong with monk?

---

You can read all about it here, here, here and here. But basically it has a lot of niche abilities that don't see much actual use. The gameplay at the core is good but the rest of its kit doesn't mesh well and sometimes actively work against it. Things like abilities removing Greased Lightning don't work well in execution, the Fists mechanics don't add much to gameplay, etc. It just doesn't feel cohesive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForgottenScholar

I want to add that meme about it being too long and now I’m afraid to ask............but I’m gonna ask it anyway, what is wrong with monk?

I am genuinely asking cos I really don’t know, I’m levelling all jobs to 80 so it’s currently 55 so haven’t got the slightest clue what is wrong with it to ask for a rework of the whole job?

I thought the storm blood version was good, it definitely wasn’t a mch mess back then.
Can someone explain to me or at least point the way for me to see. Thanks

P.s I do t usually play fist like jobs so haven’t really levelled it because of that. Prefer big axes and swords and stuff.

---

There is almost 6 years worth of history to unravel when talking about "what is wrong with Monk." I'd refer to the post SpeckledBurd made on the thread "Are monks really that bad?" It is a long post, but it perfectly includes every frustration that all MNK players have had since Heavensward.

But the general gist of why so many people call it a bad job is because of:
- Dev team's complete negligence and lack of care for it has led it to remain basically untouched ever since HW, with the ShB iteration of the job being a literal less involved version of ARR Monk.
- Continuous bad habit of introducing skills with unnecessary caveats or uses too specific and niche that they end up never being used and just waste spaces on hotbars. (Such as the case of Anatman, which is a skill that is no longer good at its intended use anymore.) They have admitted themselves that they don't know what to do with the job.
- Can be seen as an extension of the first point, but SE treats MNK with so little priority and fairness that other jobs that share issues with it get fixed first. (For instance, SAM players complaining about Shoha, when they did nothing to change Six Sided Star or Tornado Kick. Or how BRD's got their double layered RNG removed, but Monks did not.)

tl;dr, Any problem that other jobs have had such as simplification, introducing terrible situational skills, terrible functionality on launch, reliance on team composition and synergy etc. etc. are issues Monk has had. No other job in the game has had to deal with them as long as MNK has, and they remain unaddressed while other jobs slowly get their problems handled.

I'm sure I've skipped over another glaring issue, but if anything that just adds to how many problems it has.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

Monk is the clear choice for the job that needs major work the most. The forums are a testament to the serious problems people have had with the job for multiple expansions. If they somehow ignore multiple consecutive expansions of negative feedback for basically every design decision they made in Stormblood and in some cases design that dates back Heavensward and ARR then the forums will probably catch fire.

---

Monk requires a degree in aerospace engineering to optimize, so, I agree!