Idea for a new range dps gunner!

So the idea I was having was for a duel wielding gunner job that uses pistols

The core of the job would be based off elemental ammo. Kinda how gunbreakers have 2 charges
Gunners would have 6 ammo shots of the element.
The elements would be fire,ice, and thunder.
You can only use one type at a time or you could switch and lose the rest of that ammo.

Basic Skills would be:


Single shot: fires ammo from your pistols
2.5 recast time

Double shot: fire 1 shot from your pistols dealing x-dmg 10 second recast time

Triple shot: fire 3 shots from your pistols dealing x dmg. Only the first hit can crit 30 second recast time 2 charges

Aim shot: 1.1 cast time. Aims for a critical part of an enemy. critical hit if it’s the last bullet

Trick shot: rapidly fire at the target doing 800 dmg

(Dot) Fire ammo: your fire ammo burns the enemy leaving burns to do dmg. (This dot would only go off if 6 bullets hit the target)

Thunder ammo: copy’s the last hit from your abilities for 45% dmg. 120 cool down

Ice ammo: after 12 bullets hit the target explode and hit all targets for dmg.

I have more ideas but that’s just the idea of a selfish range l dps that hits like a truck that has cool things to it

Really, that isn't too different from MCH other than the dual-wielding shtick (it had a lot more bullet based attacks when it was introduced) - Merlwyb dual wielding pistols is because she's a npc and they always thumb their noses at the Armoury System (her class is MSK, a class that was never implemented, that MCH cannibalized it's abilities from anyway). Also, elemental attacks are useless now given elements have been completely stripped from gameplay, so it's no different to 'Fire Shot' being called 'Grenade Shot' as an "attack that explodes" or 'Stun Ammo' causing a stun debuff.

Ranged attacks are never going "to hit like a truck", as SE considers that their trade off for not having movement restrictons: less overall damage but higher rate of attack and can attack at a distance with no movement penalties (compare with say THM/BLM which does hit hard but is hamstrung by having to stop to cast attacks/spells and a much slower rate of attack). It's a standard RPG trope.

MCH is a mix between gunner and Machinist.
Yeah, the job should entirely go MCH and Gunner might be a job of its own.

But as Paladin is a mix between Paladin and Holy Knight, War a mix between Warrior and Berserker, DRK a mix between Rune Knight...
BRD a mix between ranger and bard, Ninja a mix between Thief and Ninja...

Job mix exist to satisfy two needs in one go and that's what happened with MCH.

Maybe if the dual wield was the central mechanic to work around.

Have weaponskills assigned to R / L, with D for skills utilizing both.

Then add in an overlapping mechanic.

Using an "R" shot has other "R" shots put on 3.0s recast, while "L" shots are put on a 1.5s recast. Leading with an "L" shot does the reverse.

Ammo loading is a GCD action only available to the Gun currently on the 1.5s recast. Ammo enhancing the single shots and dual shots gain a bonus effect for mixing ammo types. Your basic GCD string looks like

[R-Shot [L-Shot]]===[L-Shot [ R-Shot]]

Add in Ammo GCDs

[R-shot [L-Load]]===[L-Shot [R-Load]]===[D-shot ]

Add in a variety of OGCD abilities meant to be weaved during D-skills, but able to be fit within the R/L windows if your ping is fine.

If we keep multiple ammo types, then we have three potential weaponskills associated with the weapon currently loaded.

R/L Fire Shot
R/L Ice Shot
R/L Thunder Shot

Mix and matching the two at a time gives 3 potential big-outcomes for Dual Shot - Fire + Ice, Ice + Lightning, Lightning + Fire. Assign some satisfying effect here as wanted.

Then a basic rotation looks like

[R-shot [L-Load]]===[L-Shot[R-Load]]===[Enhanced D-Shot]

Enhanced D-Shots will be our big pay off, and we can also have it wipe the buff states from the pistols, while applying cooldowns to the Ammo. Introducing this priority conflict of 'we want as many buffed shots as possible, while keeping our ammo CDs rolling, and boosting the D-shot for big damagez'.

So for slot economy, the R/L status will be a contextual thing among weaponskills other than the two basics.

R-Shot. L-Shot. These two never change on context. Right pistol shot, left pistol shot.

Load Fire, Load Ice, Load Thunder (Or however a multiple ammo system would be named) have their context changed based on R-Shot and L-Shot. R-Shot lead turns them to L-Load, L-Shot lead turns them to R-Load.

R-Element and L-Element become R/L [Fire/Ice/Lightning] depending on what's loaded. Unlike R/L Shot, these do not put you into a psuedo 1.5 state. They will always be 3.0. Single-element shots will do their own thing, have a cooldown, and keep the whole shebang from being one giant Hypercharge window.

Sprinkle in some OGCD buffs and attacks, and we have something that looks like

[Prebuff if it exists] ==== [R-Shot [L-Load]] === [L-Shot [ R-Load]] === [R Element ^ OGCD] === [L Element ^ OGCD] === [Enhanced D-Shot] === [R-Shot [L-Load]] === [L-Element ^ OGCD]

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Maybe if the dual wield was the central mechanic to work around.

Have weaponskills assigned to R / L, with D for skills utilizing both.

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Well, now you've got me a whole lot more interested.

*pithy criticisms thwarted*

All I can add to this is I wouldn't mind seeing Gunner as a base class, Gunslinger/Gambler as the dual-wielder, Marksman as the sniper variant, Machinist as the "In the rare times I'm not building weapons of intensive destruction, I shoot my modded flamethrower-rocket-pistol/rifle", and Corsair as the "Couldn't pick between gun or sword, so I picked both" job.

MCH is not even properly using its gun at 80, just doing flips and "releasing the heat" (i would even say that player Machinist is not related to Ishgardian Machinists).
Machinist needs a serious rework or we need Gunner job to fill the gap. I'm personally starving for similar job since MCH got killed in 4.0.
I would personally choose two handed gun instead of dual guns.

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Originally Posted by Cetek14

MCH is not even properly using its gun at 80, just doing flips and "releasing the heat" (i would even say that player Machinist is not related to Ishgardian Machinists).
Machinist needs a serious rework or we need Gunner job to fill the gap. I'm personally starving for similar job since MCH got killed in 4.0.
I would personally choose two handed gun instead of dual guns.

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I agree, something akin to hunting rifles, sniper rifles or old timey muskets (as to keep the fantasy feel) and then give that job a sniper-shot-esque ability that would have a cast time but do a lot of damage. And there you go, an actual gunner/sniper/ranger and not some budget engineer that happens to use a magical 1h gun, or whatever a Machinist's gun could even be called since it acts like a conglomerate aberration of a rifle, a shotgun, and a pistol but held very awkwardly in one hand, instead of a wrench.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

MCH is a mix between gunner and Machinist.
Yeah, the job should entirely go MCH and Gunner might be a job of its own.

But as Paladin is a mix between Paladin and Holy Knight, War a mix between Warrior and Berserker, DRK a mix between Rune Knight...
BRD a mix between ranger and bard, Ninja a mix between Thief and Ninja...

Job mix exist to satisfy two needs in one go and that's what happened with MCH.

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To me it just makes the Jobs less or simply not satisfying by mixing some other archetype with it. Would much rather prefer having full archetype even if it meant having less. Bard has it the worst imo.

I really don't get the complaints about Machinist not being like a full blown gunslinger. It's not supposed to be. It's a Machinist.
It makes sense that Machinist uses a gun because, newsflash, a gun is a form of machinery. The new design philosophy solidifies the machinist aesthetic by using different other machinery which is what it's supposed to be.

One of the only jobs in the game that mixes two archetypes is really just Bard because thematically you don't see Bards use a bow and arrow pretending to be skilled huntsmen. Paladin in the RPG sense has always been idealized as some sort of Holy/White knight. Warrior is literally just Berserker in a different name. Ninja in FFXIV barely has anything thievish about it other than the Mug skill and using daggers.

Anyway, another job that handles a gun I still see being a possibility. I mean, we have two jobs that use a staff and cane, then a grimoire and codex which are essentially the same thing, then a handful of jobs using different types of swords.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

I really don't get the complaints about Machinist not being like a full blown gunslinger. It's not supposed to be. It's a Machinist.

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I've... only seen the opposite, to the point of many, as with Bard, wanting the its weapon elements relegated to a base class and all job skills focused solidly on machinistry (just as Bard would be focused on song once expanding past Archer).

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Originally Posted by SamRF

To me it just makes the Jobs less or simply not satisfying by mixing some other archetype with it. Would much rather prefer having full archetype even if it meant having less. Bard has it the worst imo.

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I completely agree with this...
I'd love to have a Rune Knight or a Rogue and it especially feels weird with Ninja.
It can be understood with Warrior as it's basically an angry fighter with an axe.

But Gunner and Machinist are different jobs.
If you look at Machinist, there is Edgar and Mustadio that is a Machinist only by the title.
If you look at Gunner, you have Vincent, Irvine, Sazh, Balthier and Prompto who still uses machinery as weapons.

XIV's Machinist was supposed to be a gadgeteer but the name "Machinist" did not fit.
I also believe they should make a real Gun-user job, there is plenty material through the FF series and that already exist in XIV (Ivalice raid for example), however the game badly needs a new healer and I don't think adding a 4th ranged would be a good idea unless they rethink the role.

Machinist should focus on heavy machineries. I'd love to see Flamethrower reworked into a stance to maintain like Enochian, the 1-2-3 combos, Gauss round and Ricochet would be replaced with Flamethrower abilities.
Gunner on light tools and why not swapping through multiple guns, creating "stances" like the BRD and its different songs, except no procs and why not an improved ammo mechanic.

I think Guns (even if limited by certain constraints), like staves and Swords are diverse enough to be the weapons of multiple jobs. Specifically...

1. A hunting shotgun would be a Two-handed weapon which intern would be distinct from the Machinist Handgonnes, and fir the mostly fantasy feel of the game
2. The duel pistols is also plausible if unlikely (considering we have no dual wielding sword job yet), of course they will need a different type of handgonne and possibly changes to some MCH weapon like how NIN ensured the chnage of certain PLD weapon
3. Not to mention RWBY has opened the gates for different Gun+melee weapons hybrids to take inspiration (though the iconic Gunblade came from FF first and ways likely part of Monty Oum's) so more options like Gunbreaker are possible

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I've... only seen the opposite, to the point of many, as with Bard, wanting the its weapon elements relegated to a base class and all job skills focused solidly on machinistry (just as Bard would be focused on song once expanding past Archer).

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That would make both of those jobs look incredibly clunky in both aesthetic and theme, MCH less so than Bard.

A Bard insta-sheathes their bow and pulls a flute and harp out of literally, and I mean literally, nowhere to use Mage's Ballad, Army's Paeon, Wanderer's Minuet, Peloton and maybe Troubadour (I don't pay close enough attention to that ability to know), the harp and flute then disappears into the dark-void and they draw their bow, instantly, to pewpew Heavy Shots. That, to me, screams utter nonsense in the way of visual fluidity and design. If the devs wanted it to work, and work well, Bard would have strummed something on their bows to use those aforementioned abilities, but they never have even before Bard's songs were reworked in Stormblood.

Machinist doesn't suffer that badly from its "pre-50" abilities and weaponskills being disctintly different from its "post-50" abilities and weaponskills though.

Bard should have been a totally different job, like a music based healer or music slinging DPS with a few support abilities (Bard could and should have been what Dancer currently is), and Archer's job upgrade should have been Sniper or Ranger. And no, they shouldn't have been split branches like Summoner and Scholar. Bard should have been an absolutely different class and job altogether separate from Archer.

The issue with BRDisthat the way theArmory system worksmeans that Jobs have to be tied to an actual weapon, and as such BRDneeding soemthing to work with,something that can be sued to realsiitcly deal damage, hence the Bow. The other alternative was making it a Magic DPS or scrapping it in favor of Ranger.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

A Bard insta-sheathes their bow and pulls a flute and harp out of literally, and I mean literally, nowhere to use Mage's Ballad, Army's Paeon, Wanderer's Minuet, Peloton and maybe Troubadour (I don't pay close enough attention to that ability to know), the harp and flute then disappears into the dark-void and they draw their bow, instantly, to pewpew Heavy Shots. That, to me, screams utter nonsense in the way of visual fluidity and design.

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You're talking about a game where flying bears, cats and elephants exist because of the power of believing in yourself. I'd be more concerned in different things.

But yeah, I agree the direction for Bard should've been more Bard-like weapon-wise than being mixed with archery but it's way too late for that. Anyway, that's not what this thread is really about.

Why not both?
A dual wielding gunner with a Rifle for when things need to be extra dead. Call it a Magitek Gunner. Maybe originate it similar to how MCH was made for common Ishgardians to help fight the Dragons without needing Knight training, perhaps the Ironworks comes up with it to allow regular Domans and Eorzeans to better fight against the Garleans, with the Pistols designed for human targets and the Rifle for mechanized units.

Presently, The only job that has a Main/Offhand weapon is Paladin. With the Shield being required for Shield Bash. So I'd set it up so that we had Dual Pistols for Main Hand with a Rifle for the offhand. They'd drop in sets the way the Paladin stuff does (If the Sword drops, so too does the shield etc).

That'd let you glamor each side separately, while damage is only calculated via the Mainhand so as to prevent item level mismatches making things weird.

I'm thinking we utilize the criminally underused elements of Ice and Thunder. Per the suggestion above, for it to be used by common soldiers, the ammo for the guns would be crafted and handed out similar to how Thancred uses his Gunblade with someone else making the cartridges for him. The player would be able to make them without assistance as needed.

Ice for the Pistols, with the bullets being essentially icicle spikes.
Thunder for the Rifle, Making it somewhat like a Railgun rather than a traditional rifle.

For the gameplay, I'd make it a hybrid between the fast paced nature of MCH and the slow, heavy hitting BLM. To make it somewhat unique, It'd have fast GCDs on the Pistols with no oGCD shots whatsoever.
Filler combo could be something like:
1- Fire a shot from the left pistol. 1.5s recast/GCD
2- Fire a quick burst from the right pistol. 1.5s recast/GCD
3- Shoot a sustained burst from both pistols. 2.5s recast/GCD

AoE could be the MCH's old Grenado Shot (I just really liked that animation >_>)

Using the filler combo would charge Shells to be used in Rifle mode. 1 Shell per the first two shots, with 2 granted by the third. Could hold up to 12 Shells.
Switching to the Rifle itself could be a GCD Cast, something like:
-Fire both pistols on full auto for 3 seconds, switches to Rifle mode when the effect ends. Gives the "Frozen Barrel" debuff, slowing the GCD on Pistol shots for X seconds. (To encourage spending time in Rifle mode before switching back). Switches to Pistol Mode when used in Rifle Mode. Unused Shells are lost. (Encourages using all Shells prior to switching back)

The Rifle would be more akin to the Black Mage. Cast times would be utilized to mimic loading a Shell and taking careful aim (And giving an excuse to have some really hard hitting potencies). Different shots with the Rifle would vary in power based on the number of Shells consumed by the shot.
-Wide Shot: 600 potency cone AoE shot, 3 Shells, 2s cast/2.5s recast.
-Snipe Shot: 400 potency single target, 1 Shell, 2s cast/2.5s recast
-Charged Burst: 700 potency single target, 2 shells, 2.5s cast/6s recast.

The basic idea would be to build Shells in Pistol mode with a fast GCD, then switch to a slower, immobile heavy hitting Rifle mode to spend the Shells before switching back to Pistols.
The reason I'd base it on those Elements instead of regular bullets is due to MCH already being a more physical/mechanical visual experience with a fair bit of Fire theme thrown in with the Heated Shots and Flamethrower.
Wanted to make it more visually distinct and figured using Elements that are barely used by the one job that has them would give us more visual variety with effects in general.

Thats just something that popped into my head after reading this thread at work and thinking about it to pass a few hours of soul crushing boredom.