Unreal Trials

Looks like were getting a new trial difficulty. I don't see any indicator where the trial falls on the difficulty spectrum. Like is this above EX and Savage but below Ultimate? Or between EX and Savage? Am confused.

https://i.imgur.com/LyEQCsk.png

The balance discord has the translations from the speech up saying they are about EX level.

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

The balance discord has the translations from the speech up saying they are about EX level.

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Ahh ok. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

Ahh ok. Thanks!

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But limited time EX ones, with a grading scale for prizes. So I assume glamour and house items?

Hyped, never done Shiva at launch can’t wait to relive it. Please make Unreal dungeons aswel. Dungeons being EX levels are brand new material that FF14 hasn’t touched once

I'm happy about that...

Except for the "limited" aspect.
I mean, once the trial has been developed why not letting it in the game?

Probably just a revamped EX difficulty with the new universal markers and hp/dmg values uped to reflect being lv 80, be interesting if they add any new mechanics but have to wait and see for that one

We literally just got a level 80 Shiva rehash; did we really need another one?

I'm interested in how this mini-game works. The reward scheme will be important for the long-term value of these trials (for example, regular min ilv EX Shiva is a fun challenge too but no one is doing it because there's no reward worth the effort).

Was there any more info on this? A "game" implies something you can lose, or at the very least RNG similar to moogle scratchcards. Will we be running Shiva Unreal 500 times to have a "chance" at that 1% Faux Hallows top prize?

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

We literally just got a level 80 Shiva rehash; did we really need another one?

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Another reason to put Garduda in game for the 8th version!

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

We literally just got a level 80 Shiva rehash; did we really need another one?

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Yes. Can never have enough Shivas.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

We literally just got a level 80 Shiva rehash; did we really need another one?

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I don't do savage. How many of Shiva EX mechanics made it into E8S? From what I saw, not many.

Also, a lot of players weren't around when those fights were relevant. You also have to consider the source material SE has to draw from. They are not known for being the most original when it comes to their concepts. But they sure do know how to put a refreshing spin on things. No one expected All Terain Titan mode this expansion.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

I'm happy about that...

Except for the "limited" aspect.
I mean, once the trial has been developed why not letting it in the game?

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This was explained.

From a translation: A huge amount of resources will be needed if we rearranged the difficulty when the level cap increases, so made it limited and have different trials each patch. And we might be able to have multiple trials in one patch in the future.

I'm actually kinda excited for this. I have fond memories of some of the older EX's and really look forward to being able to try my hand at them while they're on-content again. Makes me wonder what's coming next since they skipped straight to Shiva, ignoring Ramuh and Moggle Mog on top of the eternal trio that is Garuda, Ifrit, and Titan. Are they going to do Ravana next then? Or are they just gonna jump around?

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Originally Posted by Enla

I'm actually kinda excited for this. I have fond memories of some of the older EX's and really look forward to being able to try my hand at them while they're on-content again. Makes me wonder what's coming next since they skipped straight to Shiva, ignoring Ramuh and Moggle Mog on top of the eternal trio that is Garuda, Ifrit, and Titan. Are they going to do Ravana next then? Or are they just gonna jump around?

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They skipped to Shiva because of Eden's Gate. They wanted players to look back on the original. My guess is that they will either go by patch relevance, or- if development permits, they can have 2 at a time for HW and SB.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

I'm happy about that...

Except for the "limited" aspect.
I mean, once the trial has been developed why not letting it in the game?

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Because they don't want players to outlevel and outgear those fights like the old ones, as that would kill the purpose of "revamping" them

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Also, a lot of players weren't around when those fights were relevant.

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There already exist methods of doing these older fights closer to the "originally intended" level. It's up to the players whether or not to make use of those methods.

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Because they don't want players to outlevel and outgear those fights like the old ones,

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That's... kind of what happens in a vertical-progression MMO, though. They literally made the game to be this way.

idk though, I'm just not really a fan of the whole FOMO thing. With seasonal events and such, it's acceptable, but I don't want to see it in actual game content.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

There already exist methods of doing these older fights closer to the "originally intended" level. It's up to the players whether or not to make use of those methods.

That's... kind of what happens in a vertical-progression MMO, though. They literally made the game to be this way.

idk though, I'm just not really a fan of the whole FOMO thing. With seasonal events and such, it's acceptable, but I don't want to see it in actual game content.

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Besides housing and crafting, what content in XIV is not flavor of the month?

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Originally Posted by Gula

They skipped to Shiva because of Eden's Gate. They wanted players to look back on the original. My guess is that they will either go by patch relevance, or- if development permits, they can have 2 at a time for HW and SB.

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Loliva vs OG Shiva

FIGHT!

(OG Shiva Wins!)

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

There already exist methods of doing these older fights closer to the "originally intended" level. It's up to the players whether or not to make use of those methods.

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Indeed there is. But getting players to use those methods is another level of difficulty most won't deal with, or it simply takes too long.

I honestly don't know how anyone can be against getting more relevant trials, regardless of who it is we're fighting. It also gives them to opportunity to utilize some of the fights they've left to a single instance. Odin quickly comes to mind.

I think FOMO in this case is being used to mean fear of missing out. Not really a big fan myself tbh.

How many will actually be able to do these if at EX level? Already mentors instaquit when they get EX's. I just had this in Ramuh where 2 instaquit.

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Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia

How many will actually be able to do these if at EX level? Already mentors instaquit when they get EX's. I just had this in Ramuh where 2 instaquit.

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Use Party Finder when doing EX or higher content. Generally most people don't use DF for that content so PF will fill faster, plus everyone will know what they are going into and you can go over strats etc before heading into the fight.

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Originally Posted by Delis

Use Party Finder when doing EX or higher content. Generally most people don't use DF for that content so PF will fill faster, plus everyone will know what they are going into and you can go over strats etc before heading into the fight.

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I know, but got it in Mentor Roulette. I was using it to make a point that so many don't know Shiva EX as in having only done it unsynced. Next group I got Shiva EX 15 minutes in progress and asked if unreal prep, one other mentor laughed and said yes.

I'm not a fan of the limited aspect, though beyond that everything sounds good.

I'm not really expecting any drastic changes to the trials difficulty-wise and more just changing things to be more "modern" by using new AoE indicators wherever applicable, removing the perma-KOs from falling in pre-Sophia trials, etc.

This would have been a great opportunity to resurrect Ravana or Bismark or even Susano or Lakshmi. Seems someone at SE really loves them some Shiva, back to back patches.

Sounds like a terrible and unnecessary design choice, IMO. Limited time only + exclusive rewards + EX+ level difficulty = I ain't doin it and most people won't either. If it's just a level 80 slightly enhanced version of the original trial, then that's 50% okay, since arbitrarily limited time content is stupid no matter what it is.

Honestly, I do think the fundamental idea of making max level versions of old content is a cool concept, though. I'd love it if they made a level 80, 8-man version of the old Crystal tower series to allow people to really experience that content in a less faceroll state.

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Originally Posted by Espritduo

Sounds like a terrible and unnecessary design choice, IMO. Limited time only + exclusive rewards + EX+ level difficulty = I ain't doin it and most people won't either. If it's just a level 80 slightly enhanced version of the original trial, then that's 50% okay, since arbitrarily limited time content is stupid no matter what it is.

Honestly, I do think the fundamental idea of making max level versions of old content is a cool concept, though. I'd love it if they made a level 80, 8-man version of the old Crystal tower series to allow people to really experience that content in a less faceroll state.

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Extreme Trials are midcore difficulty and you only have to clear it once a week. If it takes you over a week to clear an ex trial then the FOMO is a perfect excuse to learn how to play better

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Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia

How many will actually be able to do these if at EX level? Already mentors instaquit when they get EX's. I just had this in Ramuh where 2 instaquit.

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The instaquit probably has more to do with the fact most DF parties are full of new players that don't know what they're getting into, haven't looked anything up, and are just overall unprepared skill wise. It's essentially a blind prog group with a bunch of bellow average players. I'm not condoning leaving but that's most likely why they do it, not because they don't know how to clear the fight. It's also part of the reason why I don't support ex trials in the mentor roulette. There's such a big gap in commitment between a 2mn guildhest and a full lockout Ex trial. Those of us that like running ex trials and savage to help others do so in the PF. At least people have an idea of what they're getting into there.

Those that clear current ex trials will clear these unreal trials, simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

We literally just got a level 80 Shiva rehash; did we really need another one?

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This. Having that as their first test subject seems a bit... odd.

Why not at least something more unique from our recent raid-trials, like Good King Moogle Mog or any of the Warring Triad?

Its fine, EXs are the easiest of endgame fights, so its not that big of a deal really. And from what its sounds like you will have the entire patch complete, serious doubt they'll have an exclusive reward every week, very very likely rewards will be cycled like WT. I like the idea, breaths new life into old fights, people would otherwise burn through or even miss out on, cause of high level/gear or no need to do. Old days of primal fights where even titan was one hell of a wall to beat and was straight up a requirement for arr relic, lol.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

This. Having that as their first test subject seems a bit... odd.

Why not at least something more unique from our recent raid-trials, like Good King Moogle Mog or any of the Warring Triad?

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There might be a big enough following of people that run ex but not savage to warrant this. Hard to tell without data (that I assume they have).

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

This. Having that as their first test subject seems a bit... odd.

Why not at least something more unique from our recent raid-trials, like Good King Moogle Mog or any of the Warring Triad?

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Yeah they mentioned people would prolly be less likely to do the content if it was something out of the blue, while shiva is fairly fresh in people minds cause of raid so they're starting off with that. Was also mentioned they'll add more every patch or so.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

Extreme Trials are midcore difficulty and you only have to clear it once a week. If it takes you over a week to clear an ex trial then the FOMO is a perfect excuse to learn how to play better

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It's not a matter of getting good. I used to clear ex primals with my static back in the day and we usually cleared them day one in one lockout before moving onto savage progging. I refuse to go through the insufferable experience of pugging them with strangers, though. That is the real reason most people don't bother with EX trials, not their difficulty per se. I believe the vast majority of the playerbase is technically capable of clearing an EX trial, in terms of skill alone. It's dealing with the human garbage that you tend to find in random groupings that makes it invariably not worth the effort until you can unsync them. I remember clearing Zurvan EX with my group, getting it on farm in a few hours, then trying to do it with pugs later on. Never again. And I've certainly served my time in Shiva EX at level enough that I never want to do that again either.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

There might be a big enough following of people that run ex but not savage to warrant this. Hard to tell without data (that I assume they have).

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But, we see Shiva, Ifruda, Ixamuh, Leviathan, and Titan 2.0 in Normal Raids before we're even allowed to attempt their Savage versions. It's not like they lack for exposure.

From what I heard, they were originally gonna start with Titan, but then decided to go with Shiva. Shiva is a pretty easy EX Primal, whereas fights like Moggle Mog have a mechanic that I don't think has been done again since Moggle Mog EX.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

But, we see Shiva, Ifruda, Ixamuh, Leviathan, and Titan 2.0 in Normal Raids before we're even allowed to attempt their Savage versions. It's not like they lack for exposure.

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Sure, but if you break it down into tiers of difficulty and/or playtime it makes a bit more sense. If all you've done is Shiva normal and you enjoy running ex content then normal was most likely not a challenge at all and your exposure to it was pretty limited (compared to progging a fight for instance). So having a more demanding shiva fight could be a logical decision.
Not saying they couldn't have come totally out of left field with something else like mog king, Odin, etc. But there are probably more reasons to it than just exposure. Shiva also seems like an easy fight to upscale and test the whole unreal thing with.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

I'm happy about that...

Except for the "limited" aspect.
I mean, once the trial has been developed why not letting it in the game?

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They said that Shiva was just the first, and the other Primals would come.
Making it so only 1 Unreal Trial is available at a time forces people to do whichever one is up at the time rather than ignoring the harder ones and only doing the 'easiest' one, or the one that they can score best with.

Theres also an element of player retention. Rotating events mean you're always logging in rather than just doing 1 month at the start of a patch, then waiting for the next content drop.

However ... AFAIK, they didn't elaborate on what they meant by Limited.
It could even just mean that you have limited attempts to clear it each week, as opposed to limited time to play the content before it vanishes.

What I do like about the limited aspect is that it adds dynamism to the game, if they would add some actual lore to it instead of an ugly fox face.
They should've baked it into the world lore as such:

1. While the Warrior of light has been away from the Source the Beast tribes have been once again fervently praying to their primals to come back. Thankfully this takes them a long time to summon them but this also means the danger they pose to the world is that much greater. Will the Warrior of light answer the call? This would have add dynamism to the game as opposed to: Fox here, fight level 80 Shiva. It's really weird how they approach the game sometimes, sometimes they approach it from an Arcade/Call of Duty sort of way. Other times when they bring in guests like Matsuno or the Yorha guy they work hard on the lore. The game could really use more world dynamic content, specially if it's limited time. Seasonal primal summonings.