Suggestion: Make who positioned waymarkers visible in the chat

As the title says, I think it would be good to avoid people causing grievances with the waymarkers to make it visible in the chat who put them in place.

Why do I suggest this? Well, let me explain what happened yesterday:

I queued for the Alliance Raid Roulette with some friends and to no surprise, LotA popped. My friends and I were in the party A. There were quite a few new players to the fight, but things were going normal until we reached the Atomos.

Someone had a preset for the Waymarkers placing the markers in the reverse order: C on the left/upper path, B on the center, and A on the right/bottom path. I tried correcting the position of the markers, as my party (A) was already on the spot with the C marker, but the player that had the preset kept placing them wrongly, resulting in someone from party B pulling when there was no one in the right/bottom side, thus causing the first wipe.

We move forward and then we reach the Allagan Bomb and the Vassagos, and... the player that had the preset for the Atomos had another for the Vassagos, misplacing the markers too, and no matter how many times we tried removing them, he kept replacing them with the preset. Luckily, we ignored them and did the fight as normal.

But then we reach the last boss, Phlegethon, and the player with the presets had another one for that fight, misplacing the markers A and C again. Another wipe happened here because people from the party C came to the platform that's usually for A, thus not having enough people in their platform and making it impossible for the barrier to appear.

So the duty ended with two wipes, and my friends and I reported the situation through the in-game support, hoping that the GMs could investigate the issue and maybe warn the player for misbehaviour (I wouldn't have reported it if it was just one time, but he/she kept doing it for every fight, and I don't like getting wipes in easy content just because someone's idea of what's "fun" is to screw with 23 other players).

We couldn't know who was misplacing the markers because there is no way to see who placed the markers, so the report was sent with "Unidentified" in the "Character Name and World" part of the report template.

To my surprise, I was answered by the GM that they couldn't do anything if the report didn't include the name of the player, and it didn't matter how much I tried to explain to him/her that we couldn't know who it was, and so, the reports were closed without any investigation.

When my friends and I received that answer we were at a loss, thinking that someone that literally was disrupting the game for 23 other players was going to get away with it, without any kind of warning for misbehaviour.

You care too much about a marker, versus party relativity. If "A" wants to be west where "C" is, then so be it.

Wasn't even worth reporting because they likely weren't even griefing at-all. When you save a preset it has the duty name, so likely they only had one for LotA. The system is lousy where you can't really have several for one instance without using up all your presets.

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Originally Posted by technole

You care too much about a marker, versus party relativity. If "A" wants to be west where "C" is, then so be it.

Wasn't even worth reporting because they likely weren't even griefing at-all. When you save a preset it has the duty name, so likely they only had one for LotA. The system is lousy where you can't really have several for one instance without using up all your presets.

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It was griefing. We told them to stop, we tried to change it and they keep changing it back, and it caused two wipes. They kept using the preset in every fight after Atomos, and spamming it until each fight started. It that isn't griefing, then please tell me what it is.

I add my suport to this suggestion. I'm not a fan of reporting, but I also dislike being used when someone's idea of fun is to disrupt 23 other players, myself included, after being told to please stop.

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Originally Posted by technole

You care too much about a marker, versus party relativity. If "A" wants to be west where "C" is, then so be it.

Wasn't even worth reporting because they likely weren't even griefing at-all. When you save a preset it has the duty name, so likely they only had one for LotA. The system is lousy where you can't really have several for one instance without using up all your presets.

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I already said in my post that they kept placing them whenever any other player tried to place them correctly:

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the player that had the preset kept placing them wrongly

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Maybe I didn't explain properly, but if you place a marker wrong, and I remove it to place it correctly, but you keep spamming the preset to keep it in the wrong place, and the player kept doing so while getting told by people from both parties (party A and party C) affected to stop... Then sorry, but I DO think that's misbehaviour. And we do suspect it was someone from party B, as they were the ones that pulled the Atomos causing the first wipe, they pulled the Allagan Bomb before everyone arrived, and they pulled Phlegethon and kept the boss in the place he appears, making it harder to run back to platforms...

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

But... if you had just adhered to the markers placed by this person rather than spending all your time and energy fighting them over it, you would have been just fine?

I get that there is a "standard" for most markers, but really, just go with it, if they ARE trolling you're just playing into their hand with this.

Really hate how we can no longer place waymarkers during combat. Already had several situations in which it would have been handy but couldn't.

On the one hand I can see why a feature like this would be helpful, but on the other hand I don't think that scenario should be the reason to have and think that it might encourage MORE trolling in the form of ostracizing or votekicking those that misplace waymarks even once. Plus its not like this couden't be solved by you know going to the designated points, A doesn't have to be in the left side for the Atomos fight and would be just as effective in the center or right (provided ofc that they're the only players in one of those areas).

Now if the mechanics were coded in a way that one team absolutely has to be in specific places and that no other team could do the mechanics even if they were in the right places, than that's a different story.

EDIT: With that said did you atleast explain why you though the flipped waymarkers were "improper" at least? If not than this is as much a communications issue as it is adaptation one

It should have been visible from the start, too many times i had problems bc its easy to troll with it. no matter how minor it might be, if its ill intendend, its ill intended.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

EDIT: With that said did you atleast explain why you though the flipped waymarkers were "improper" at least? If not than this is as much a communications issue as it is adaptation one

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The usual "my way is correct, it's A-B-C, not C-B-A", and assume it is.

Not surprisingly there are people like that in party finder savage. If A-B-C-D isn't always clockwise, it's a "problem". If positions are not dictated as boss always being true north, it's a "problem". Adaptability and just knowing where your place is on the map is apparently hard for some people in this game even with a mini-map compass.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Really hate how we can no longer place waymarkers during combat. Already had several situations in which it would have been handy but couldn't.

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Sadly a case where a handful of players kinda ruined it for everyone else. I've had several Orbonne's this month where I had to sprint to get ahead of the zerg just to place the markers because several people in the alliance were too impatient to let people place them normally - let alone let people give even some minor tips to prevent wipes.

I'm going to pipe up and say that this current system is very abusable. It doesn't even need to be like ozma or thunder cid to cause unnecessary problems and potentially cause those bosses to not be cleared.

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Originally Posted by technole

You care too much about a marker, versus party relativity. If "A" wants to be west where "C" is, then so be it.

Wasn't even worth reporting because they likely weren't even griefing at-all. When you save a preset it has the duty name, so likely they only had one for LotA. The system is lousy where you can't really have several for one instance without using up all your presets.

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Agreed. Sure most people position markers in a specific way, but this is definitely not something that should be an actionable offense. You can't prove someone who puts B where you think A should be is necessarily griefing - even if they are. It makes players open to report abuse, and ironically harassment if you could see the name of the player that is positioning markers.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Agreed. Sure most people position markers in a specific way, but this is definitely not something that should be an actionable offense. You can't prove someone who puts B where you think A should be is necessarily griefing - even if they are. It makes players open to report abuse, and ironically harassment if you could see the name of the player that is positioning markers.

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GMs are actually not dumb. They can tell if someone is harassing / griefing. Being specifically asked not to do something and doing it repeatedly automatically makes the person suspect of harassment, regardless of what it is they're actually doing.

I promise you GMs can also tell who was moving the markers.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

GMs are actually not dumb. They can tell if someone is harassing / griefing. Being specifically asked not to do something and doing it repeatedly automatically makes the person suspect of harassment, regardless of what it is they're actually doing.

I promise you GMs can also tell who was moving the markers.

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The point of what I was saying when referring to harassment is when player 1 sees player 2 move markers in an order they do not like. Then specifically target harasses that player, not to mention kicking. Obviously, SE could tell who is moving markers. I was speaking in general.

For that matter, how can you or a GM actually determine moving markers is actually griefing. One player likes the markers in one way, another an other way. Who is wrong?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

One player likes the markers in one way, another an other way. Who is wrong?

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The person who puts the markers in B C A order is obviously wrong. I think we all know how letters work.

Who decides what is "correct" marker position in alliance raid? Isn't it all just personal preference and there really is not correct way to mark anything? For LoTA it doesn't really matter on any of the bosses if you mark it ABC or BCA or CAB, etc?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

One player likes the markers in one way, another an other way. Who is wrong?

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It wasn't one vs one, it was one person vs two parties.

The name should be made visible so that people who place markers can be kicked.

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Originally Posted by Seddrinth

Who decides what is "correct" marker position in alliance raid? Isn't it all just personal preference and there really is not correct way to mark anything? For LoTA it doesn't really matter on any of the bosses if you mark it ABC or BCA or CAB, etc?

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In my experience, if markers go down it's just about always ABC order, with the occasional screwup on like, the three demon guys before Behemoth. People who run the roulette regularly seem to mostly just expect that now, and if anybody puts markers that are different... well, the one time that comes to mind for me is the time someone did that on those demon guys. Half the raid ignored the markers and went ABC, half went to the new markers, I tried to fix the markers but it was too late, and the mobs got tanked together in the wrong place aaaand we wiped.

Basically, and this is probably pretty cynical, I don't trust DF randoms to be able to adjust to something other than the normal marker order. I think it's actually pretty cool and reasonable that there's sort of a standard marker so your folks who are new or just plain not paying attention don't end up doing totally opposite things and getting everyone killed. Those raids are such a boring snoozefest half the people there are probably half asleep anyway. :/

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But... if you had just adhered to the markers placed by this person rather than spending all your time and energy fighting them over it, you would have been just fine?

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Nono, they're griefing me by placing a waymarker preset first, then not changing it back after I try and change their already established waymarkers, in content where it doesnt matter where waymarkers are set anyway as long as people know where theyre going relative to other people at a time where we were already ready to go and I kept trying to change things to change things.

I'm clearly not at fault for being the one that wont let things go, not people who already did the thing I think I can do better, gosh.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Sadly a case where a handful of players kinda ruined it for everyone else. I've had several Orbonne's this month where I had to sprint to get ahead of the zerg just to place the markers because several people in the alliance were too impatient to let people place them normally - let alone let people give even some minor tips to prevent wipes.

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It' becauuse there are people like me who do not wanna stare some shining christamas tree for the entire fight.

I know it's odd but people run this so often why not change it up sometimes? If people wanted A to be in the third lane, so be it. It's not like a game mechanic differs because of it. Just run to the post directed to and you likely wouldn't have cause a fuss.
It's like people who pull Bone dragon to the far wall instead of the near wall (or god forbid the centre!). Different tactics but only slight degrees of efficiency change. Just roll with it bro.

Sounds to me like the wipe happened cause neither of you wanted to adjust. Like you wanna blame the other person cause you just couldn't go to a different platform with the exact same mechanics?

Going by ABC a ka positioning groups from left to right sounds logical to me as a European, so I don't see why anybody in Western area should pick the opposite way a ka how Japanese would read stuff.

For those of you who don't see a problem here, I myself have once seen a troll (yes, troll, because he admitted he wanted to have some fun) in LotA who placed the marks as BCA, so the endresult was a wipe thanks to one spot having only 3 people there.

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Originally Posted by MelodyCrystel

Going by ABC a ka positioning groups from left to right sounds logical to me as a European, so I don't see why anybody in Western area should pick the opposite way a ka how Japanese would read stuff.

For those of you who don't see a problem here, I myself have once seen a troll (yes, troll, because he admitted he wanted to have some fun) in LotA who placed the marks as BCA, so the endresult was a wipe thanks to one spot having only 3 people there.

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The right-left placement is most likely an artifact of clockwise placement where the 12-o-clock isn't needed.