Level 80 DRG Optimal Stat Numbers

Much like the title of this thread states, what is considered optimal when it comes to the number range for Dragoon stats at say il 480. Should I utilize over melded "green" gear or the token trade-ins? I want to be equipped to make a decent dent in an Edenverse savage raid.
I've seen a few forum responses that state critical should be around 3400, and skill speed should be 2200. This seems to be hard to reach with my current 480 -490 gear? Does anyone have any advice?
I know DPS macros are no-nos but I've also heard of a few good ones for dragon eye and various buffs. Good idea, Bad idea?

Until you can reach BiS, you should focus on increasing you ilvl.
When you are able to buy the ilvl 490 gear you should look on the sub stats because you can upgrade them to 500.

But for more information, guides and theory crafting you should take a look into the balance discord.
https://discord.gg/thebalanceffxiv

Avoid joining any Discord Communities in this regard, You should take any bonus gear that you want as long as it's a higher level you should be at an advantage.

You want to avoid Skill-Speed all together with Dragoon, the Reason being is that the class doesn't have enough Damage over time abilities and has so many OGCD's you run into an issue with desyncing and clipping in the rotation and clipping an OGCD or GCD with one is a damage Decrease.

Here is the Ideal Prority of Stats.
Weapon Damage > Strength > Critical > Direct-hit > Determination > Skill-Speed.

DRG Stat Weights :

CRIT = 1.0686 (1.0485 at 380 scaling to 1.0686 at 2500 and above, meaning have no Crit, or stack it if you have any unfortunately)
DH = 1.06225
DET = 1.06

Hi, while the post above me has correctly quoted the general priority of stats for DRG, I highly recommend that if you intend to attempt to gear in an optimal fashion you should also attempt to play in an optimal fashion as well. In spite of its reputation among people, the Balance hosts the most up-to-date and theoretically sound guides for FFXIV and would strongly recommend you join if you wish to learn more about gearing and DRG play in general.

FWIW DoT scaling on SKS/SPS is not a reason that it's taken; it's usually to hit specific GCD tiers or in the case of some jobs their strongest attacks scale with it so it proves advantageous to take a large amount of it. SAM, for example, wants to take a specific amount of sks to allow for certain looping rotations, and some BLM builds take as much sps as possible to maximize the amount of Fire 4's they can cast over the course of a fight. A job like SMN, for whom DoT's are a major portion of its damage, actually only takes a specific amount of sps on some builds to ensure that the timing for demi-primals isn't so tight. Otherwise, SMN actually avoids SPS as much as possible. DoT's are not a good indicator of a job liking speed stats.

Furthermore, I would avoid using stat weights that are provided without a methodology for their calculation. We have, as a community, moved away from using stat weights because 1. calculating them is dubious due to the fact that stats in this game are tiered (that is, each stat is a stepwise function wherein a bonus is gained every n stat points rather than scaling continuously with every stat point) 2. usable stat weights require you to calculate them for a specific stat snapshot, meaning that stat weights only have value as a comparison tool for specific changes in gearing. General stat priorities are much sounder way to guess what the value of changing to a specific piece will be given they are the same item level, as well as inform how to meld materia and get it mostly correct.

In closing: stat weights are fake, stat priorities are real, the information in Renkei's post is good except for the advice to not join The Balance and their use of stat weights.

That is... just factually incorrect. Stats operate on a tier system, where each X points of a stat provides a 0.1% increase to all parameters for the stat. Stat weights just don't exist, and they never have within the framework of FF14's system. I don't have the exact numbers on me right this second, but they've always operated off tiers.

It isn't factual Incorrect and everybody and their mother knows that the stats do in fact shift in tiers at break points, This is just for calculating First hand what stats to Prioritize and by no means is used for calculating final output or breakpoints, that is done by a stat by stat basis and based on the nearest break-point.

While i Agree stat weights aren't accurate because of the nature of tiered breakpoints for stats, using this calculation for prioritizing Gear / Materia is Viable, at it's core that's what this calculation is for as it's just an estimate.

It is just a calculation used for gearing.

The Reason why i tell people not to join The Balance Discord is the official forums isn't really the place to be advertising external communities.

You agree that they are inaccurate. Why are you then actively spreading misinformation that you admit yourself is false? The easier way to say something like that is to tell them to prioritize their item level over substats while working towards their job's best in slot, rather than adding on all the false info about stat weights. Spreading misinformation like that only serves to confuse people as to what's really going on with damage calculations.

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Originally Posted by Renkei

It isn't factual Incorrect and everybody and their mother knows that the stats do in fact shift in tiers at break points, This is just for calculating First hand what stats to Prioritize and by no means is used for calculating final output or breakpoints, that is done by a stat by stat basis and based on the nearest break-point.

While i Agree stat weights aren't accurate because of the nature of tiered breakpoints for stats, using this calculation for prioritizing Gear / Materia is Viable, at it's core that's what this calculation is for as it's just an estimate.

It is just a calculation used for gearing.

The Reason why i tell people not to join The Balance Discord is the official forums isn't really the place to be advertising external communities.

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Not everyone knows that stats are tiered. In fact, you probably wouldn't know either if it weren't for the hard work of this game's theorycrafting community in deducing the damage formula and stat formulae. Before we had good knowledge on this, someone calculated spurious stat weights that were treated as gospel but were in fact inaccurate and led to many people making sub-optimal gearing choices in Heavensward, because the actual reality hadn't been properly deduced.

If you agree, then why do you use them? Why would you quote numbers when a priority is sufficient enough and probably more correct than the gearing decisions that would be made using what are effectively numbers pulled out of thin air? Are these weights calculated for your current gear, for his current gear, or what? And what about when he changes gear, when these numbers you've quoted become completely wrong? The issue isn't so much that they "aren't accurate" but that they are intellectually dishonest with respect to how gearing calculations are done and how statting actually works in this game.

If you have the methodology for calculating these stat weights, by all means please share it, because I would like to know how you did it.

Finally, nobody here is advertising the discord but is suggesting that OP joins it because it is the place where most guides and theorycrafting information is hosted. If the information is best gained from outside the OF, why not redirect a poster to where they can get the best information for the game possible?

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Originally Posted by mugi999

Not everyone knows that stats are tiered. In fact, you probably wouldn't know either if it weren't for the hard work of this game's theorycrafting community in deducing the damage formula and stat formulae. Before we had good knowledge on this, someone calculated spurious stat weights that were treated as gospel but were in fact inaccurate and led to many people making sub-optimal gearing choices in Heavensward, because the actual reality hadn't been properly deduced.

If you agree, then why do you use them? Why would you quote numbers when a priority is sufficient enough and probably more correct than the gearing decisions that would be made using what are effectively numbers pulled out of thin air? Are these weights calculated for your current gear, for his current gear, or what? And what about when he changes gear, when these numbers you've quoted become completely wrong? The issue isn't so much that they "aren't accurate" but that they are intellectually dishonest with respect to how gearing calculations are done and how statting actually works in this game.

If you have the methodology for calculating these stat weights, by all means please share it, because I would like to know how you did it.

Finally, nobody here is advertising the discord but is suggesting that OP joins it because it is the place where most guides and theorycrafting information is hosted. If the information is best gained from outside the OF, why not redirect a poster to where they can get the best information for the game possible?

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It's just providing simple napkin math that anybody can do, It's not intellectually dishonest thing to do, an intellectually dishonest thing to do is to argue in the defense of a community that you are apart of and then advertise joining that community and detesting any type of suggestions prior as incorrect because they aren't popular views, Which is literally Witch-Hunting (I have nothing to personally gain by suggesting anything to anyone else on how to gear their job versus the gains someone else has of advertising their own discord with an alt account , It isn't the method you'd use for Min-Maxing which is true. Personally I find the Spreadsheet Located here by Jahadaunt edited by Eve Malqir to be useful. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1450208080


I think your nature of your posts are more targeted personal attacks and doesn't do any justice to the OP, I think if you want to help Them it'd be better for you to post resources and statistics instead of having them go over to an external community with an external application to seek those resources. If the resources belong to your community and they find that information useful then post those resources here instead when people ask these kinds of questions, Afterward leave it up to them whether or not to join it based off the information provided, Gate Keeping isn't a good way to get anyone to join your community and I'd say this position is valid constructive criticism without any malicious intent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renkei

It's just providing simple napkin math that anybody can do, It's not intellectually dishonest thing to do, an intellectually dishonest thing to do is to argue in the defense of a community that you are apart of and then advertise joining that community and detesting any type of suggestions prior as incorrect because they aren't popular views, Which is literally Witch-Hunting (I have nothing to personally gain by suggesting anything to anyone else on how to gear their job versus the gains someone else has of advertising their own discord with an alt account , It isn't the method you'd use for Min-Maxing which is true. Personally I find the Spreadsheet Located here by Jahadaunt edited by Eve Malqir to be useful. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1450208080


I think your nature of your posts are more targeted personal attacks and doesn't do any justice to the OP, I think if you want to help Them it'd be better for you to post resources and statistics instead of having them go over to an external community with an external application to seek those resources.

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Frankly I'm not trying to help OP moreso as I am trying to ensure that the most accurate things are given to them. I personally can't stand misinformation being thrown around and stat weights are exactly that. They're at best spurious and at worst misleading.

Also, you're suggesting I'm somehow an alt account of the owner of a 167k member discord? Give me a break. Nobody has anything to gain advertising a discord. They aren't monetized. Ads aren't run on discords and their owners aren't paid out by discord so simply adding members does nothing. The only thing I have to gain is making the community better informed about the game's mechanics.

Also, you just literally linked resources from the Balance, made by people who are considered mentors on the Balance, and still haven't provided any methodology by which you calculated your stat weights. If they're simple napkin math, the formulae should be easy to post yet you haven't posted them at all.

That is my point exactly, You aren't interested in helping the OP you are interested in attacking me for having an unpopular opinion.

No i suggested you where an ALT account and a member of that community i never said of the owner, thanks for the Freudian slip though!
The gain isn't directly monetary but it is is clearly socially beneficial to your discord community and possibly even monetary if data is stored on third party websites with advertising.

Your mythologies aren't posted anywhere either, That mean's at least I'd save them the trouble of having to download discord and privately interact with your community. That clearly shows you are more interested in advertising then providing the information, regardless even if the content is done by who you consider mentors it doesn't make the content owned by the community.

The Weight Calculation was done by spamming a second hitting ability with 100 potency of damage with a Weathered Spear naked at level 80 then logging the output of over 1,000 hits (auto attacks not included except for SKS), Using known gear for bonuses and subtracting strength bonus to meet higher break points.

This is the calculation i used for figuring out the base points : ((Potency/100)*(WD+((BDET*JDMOD/1000),0))*((AP/APDIV+(1-BDET/APDIV)),2))(1+(DET-BDET)/DETDIV,4),3),1))

I discovered that Critical Damage bonus has break points but Critical Rating doesn't, or it was to hard to observe due to the randomness of damage.

This is how i came to the conclusion that critical doesn't start out scaling at until mid 2226 compared to SKS 1,751, 3050 DIR, 1686 DET where it each starts to fall off, at 2226 Critical seems to start being worth more and more, but still has the down side of effecting critical damage bonus., I tried testing Critical Damage bonus modifiers break points in more depth but couldn't get consistent data fast enough as it'll require a larger pool of data. it cost me a ton of Materia testing this thankfully i had lots of gear sets from older expansions available to get accurate measurements but i am sure i made some errors.

Applying the known break points to the rotation is something i am working on actively it's just to be taken for a grain of salt and not literally all math is just an estimate anyways.

Imagine estimating when the equations are all known from far greater samples than "over 1000" and on top of that listing stat weights. What are we, pre TJ era Heavensward relying on Neetsha-Dervy blogs and archaic handwavey ariyala weights? We've moved on from over 4 years ago. Please get with the times.

OP, the stat priorities have been listed, however, don't try to aim for specific arbitrary values. Build towards BiS lists as best you can - those have been tested thoroughly and run through solid equations. Then for the pieces you aren't able to obtain you can still follow the priority and be good enough. Just be mindful of target GCDs for your job to make the rotation sane enough.

Regarding Dragonsight if you can manually resolve tether seamlessly enough on a given party member that's a better case, but you can have macros for specific party slots just to reduce the number of different inputs as a compromise.

For anyone who doesn't want to join the creepy cult of Balance, you can just go on their discord and take all the information.
I find it weird how many people insist you *must* join this discord.
You don't need to join anything and you can safely ignore anyone saying "join the balance discord" because you can just go there and take all the available information and then post it on Reddit or whatever you like. Please in the future consider ignoring these strange cult members. They come out of the woodwork to defend it for some weird reason.

The biggest issue is 99% of people just want an answer they don't want to join your weird contingency of "theorycrafters". It's insane how often I see "join balance" as an "Answer" to a question.

the only useful response in this entire thread.

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Originally Posted by CatMilk

For anyone who doesn't want to join the creepy cult of Balance, you can just go on their discord and take all the information.
I find it weird how many people insist you *must* join this discord.
You don't need to join anything and you can safely ignore anyone saying "join the balance discord" because you can just go there and take all the available information and then post it on Reddit or whatever you like. Please in the future consider ignoring these strange cult members. They come out of the woodwork to defend it for some weird reason.

The biggest issue is 99% of people just want an answer they don't want to join your weird contingency of "theorycrafters". It's insane how often I see "join balance" as an "Answer" to a question.

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Quoted for truth!!!
I really don't understand why people insist you visit a discord just to get some basic info. I tried it once after never using discord and nothing made any sense, just overly convoluted crap for an answer that could be written in a sentence. Mind boggling how detailed some players go into this stuff when essentially it doesn't matter.

Stack direct hit = win









Disclaimer : I have no idea if it's the best stat, i just presume some boss drg player will come along and refute me by giving the desired numbers for DH, crit, det, etc for an ilv around 530.

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Originally Posted by Navnav

Quoted for truth!!!
I really don't understand why people insist you visit a discord just to get some basic info. I tried it once after never using discord and nothing made any sense, just overly convoluted crap for an answer that could be written in a sentence. Mind boggling how detailed some players go into this stuff when essentially it doesn't matter.

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Yeah, the XIV community is really, really bad at sitting down and working together to create a website with a proper knowledge base. Salted XIV exists, but it's mostly the guides from The Balance, and there's no real standard for the guides, or a template that all guides follow to keep things organized. Hell, some of the guides just link to Google Docs, the same ones you'll find on The Balance anyways. Also surprise, Salted XIV is shutting down once Endwalker drops so there goes that resource.

It's baffling that a messaging app like Discord is the go to for XIV. Google The Balance, find out that the first link (http://www.thebalanceffxiv.com/) is a blank page and you really want the second link which is simply a link to the Discord, agree to the rules on The Balance Discord, go to the role selection channel you want, react to the Job you want information on with a stupid emoji so a bot can assign you the role, go to the role channel that you now have access to, and then...scroll through the messages to find the Google Doc that's listed in the Discord. Is that really the best solution we got for new players looking for information? At least Casters have a sane resource in Akh Morning. If I Google "ffxiv black mage guide" the first link is to Akh Morning, and all three Caster Job guides are laid out the same way, and as an added bonus they cover things The Balance doesn't care about at all, like leveling. Seriously, it's a fantastic site with fantastic guides and it should be the standard for FFXIV but nah, "join The Balance" is the typical answer.

IcyVeins, a website known for basically nothing but WoW guides, is branching into FFXIV. Their quality isn't the greatest from what I've heard, but at least their guides will actually be easy to find so who knows, maybe seeing a WoW website create easy to access and read guides will spur the XIV community to stop using a messaging app that requires people to jump through a bunch of hoops to get information.