Papalymo [End-of-HW+ Spoilers]

**SPOILERS**



Papalymo popped into my mind today for whatever reason and it occurred to me that all of SB went by with no hint or mention of his return after getting his off-screen 'death'. I was curious to people's opinions on his fate.

1. Do you think Papalymo is dead/done? (Personal opinion - No)

2. If not, do you think they missed his re-entrance window for it to have any significant weight now that Lyse's growth arc is basically over? (Personal opinion - Yes)

Unfortunately, it's pretty conclusive that Papalymo is gone forever - his aether was consumed to create the Dalamud-like coccoon used to seal Shinyru temporarily, and once that shattered, the last lingering traces of his life disappeared forever (as shown by the fake Sharalyan Circle of Knowing tattoo Lyse was wearing also disappeared, as that too was connected to his aether).

Sadly, I think he's not coming back, despite how affected I was at seeing his demise, along with the revelation about 'Yda' (Papalymo and Yda (the real one) were the first two npcs I ever saw in FFXIV way back in version 1.0 so I was really saddened at not just his death, but also discovering that Yda has been long dead and it was just her sister masquerading as her all along, at least since the Calamity.).

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

his aether was consumed to create the Dalamud-like coccoon used to seal Shinyru temporarily, and once that shattered, the last lingering traces of his life disappeared forever (as shown by the fake Sharalyan Circle of Knowing tattoo Lyse was wearing also disappeared, as that too was connected to his aether).

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This is my interpretation, as well. The spell Papalymo used was the same one Louisoix used, and that was meant to kill him, as well. (Bahamut "interrupted the cast".) I think there's a bit of necessary narrative symmetry in keeping Papalymo dead, too. In retconning Yda into Lyse for the sake of Stormblood, Yda the Archon was effectively killed. (And literally killed.) In fulfilling her new destiny, Lyse became something other than substitute for the fact that Yda and Papalymo were a single cohesive unit; one pair.

Now they're a pair again.

The only part that feels odd about it to me is that we spent several years associating the Scions with the cities Louisoix had them integrate into. Logically, I know Thancred isn't from Ul'dah, didn't spend that long in Ul'dah, isn't inherently part of that sphere, and we're directly affiliated with the government now, anyway ... but they're still associated. I figured, for that reason, Thancred, Y'shtola, Papalymo, and Yda had plot armor. What if the game wanted to utilize that connection or balance again? What if one day we went back to Eorzea and explored more of the continent and focused on "home" again?

Who will be our obvious company in Gridanian areas now? The obvious answer is we don't need anyone, but there's something very lonely about that.

Quote:

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Papalymo
Where are we? Near Gridania, you think?

Yda
Take a look around. It’s obvious, isn't it?
The quiet, the calm, the beautiful flowers.
There’s only one place it could be!
The great beyond! I do believe we’re dead, Papalymo.

Papalymo
Oh, Rhalgr take you and your great beyond!

Yda
See? Look, here’s a psychopomp come to guide us along.
Nana, is that you?

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

...but also discovering that Yda has been long dead and it was just her sister masquerading as her all along, at least since the Calamity

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Lyse was also masquerading as Yda for the non-Echo parts of 1.0. Con: the stitching on the changes is a little obvious. I swear I can even detect changes in her characterization in 2.4, around the time they'd be moving into full Heavensward development and planning the very basics of what 4.0 would be. Pro: that means Lyse immediately got some street cred for being badass in her own right by being the only one of the Scions to actually land a blow on Gaius in Mor Dhona. (Or at least graze him.)

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Sadly, I think he's not coming back, despite how affected I was at seeing his demise, along with the revelation about 'Yda' (Papalymo and Yda (the real one) were the first two npcs I ever saw in FFXIV way back in version 1.0 so I was really saddened at not just his death, but also discovering that Yda has been long dead and it was just her sister masquerading as her all along, at least since the Calamity.).

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I feel the same, we didnt play much but we started there too, back then... he and Ida were the first two npc we met.

Pretty sure they want his death to be permanent, in DFFOO mobile game they have him proclaim how what he knows just stops after a certain point and how the others know more than he does. One of the best bits about this Lyse just wants to enjoy the time she has there but both of them fully accept his death for when they do return to their world. So I have to say it's conclusive he is dead if they want to heavily imply it in their other games(only reason don't think outright stated is it is a mobile game and kids could be playing they had a similar thing with Kuja and Vivi too).

Something I have realised is that the credits always have one extra image at the end of the "recap slideshow" that isn't a direct screenshot from the game.

For Stormblood's main game, we get this:

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...153a11b1e3.jpg

Papalymo and Yda under the Ala Mhigan flag.

I think that's a definite send-off for both of them.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Who will be our obvious company in Gridanian areas now? The obvious answer is we don't need anyone, but there's something very lonely about that.

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Well, I guess we could do far worse than Y'mhitra, she's Sharalyan, a sister of another Archon (Y'shtola), is well versed in Gridanian history and politics, and is already in Gridania! Also, her personality fits her class (CNJ/WHM) far better than her sister (Y'shtola never really struck me as a 'proper' CNJ/WHM - she always seemed more versed in offensive magics, which is probably why she fitted in so well as BLM with the Night's Blessed... ;)).

Only problem is SE seems to be keeping Y'mhitra pretty exclusively for the SMN Job quests, but still, she's the best choice for 'Gridania's new Archon'.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Lyse was also masquerading as Yda for the non-Echo parts of 1.0. Con: the stitching on the changes is a little obvious. I swear I can even detect changes in her characterization in 2.4, around the time they'd be moving into full Heavensward development and planning the very basics of what 4.0 would be. Pro: that means Lyse immediately got some street cred for being badass in her own right by being the only one of the Scions to actually land a blow on Gaius in Mor Dhona. (Or at least graze him.)

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I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought 'Yda' was a little... off! Even back in 1.0 when she and Papalymo showed up for the first time after the Gridanian storyline at the end of 'Future's Perfect' she seemed... well.. different. Like, artificial. And then in ARR, she seemed like she was trying a little too hard to be a klutz, and not too successfully at it. Don't get me wrong, her revelation as really being Lyse the whole time still shocked me, but I also felt "I KNEW IT ALL ALONG!!" when it finally happened.

But then, SE are hardly masters at being subtle and this was just one case of that. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Something I have realised is that the credits always have one extra image at the end of the "recap slideshow" that isn't a direct screenshot from the game.

For Stormblood's main game, we get this:

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...153a11b1e3.jpg

Papalymo and Yda under the Ala Mhigan flag.

I think that's a definite send-off for both of them.

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Nice catch! I admit I didn't notice that! Well done. :D

Although that is the Ala Mhigan Resistance flag, but it's pretty much the same thing now. ;)

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Pretty sure they want his death to be permanent, in DFFOO mobile game they have him proclaim how what he knows just stops after a certain point and how the others know more than he does. One of the best bits about this Lyse just wants to enjoy the time she has there but both of them fully accept his death for when they do return to their world. So I have to say it's conclusive he is dead if they want to heavily imply it in their other games(only reason don't think outright stated is it is a mobile game and kids could be playing they had a similar thing with Kuja and Vivi too).

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Yep, the moment in time when Papalymo is taken in DFOO is the moment a few seconds before his own death. The respite given to him is to spend more time with Lyse and to finally get closer by seeing Lyse finally grow himself rather than leaving with only prayers it happens.

For Lyse the respite is to spend more time with Papalymo before his death and to show him that she can take care of herself now.

DFOO certainly brings the closer both characters desired and character development people wish Lyse had in FF14 Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Leareaux

I was curious to people's opinions on his fate.

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Given meaningless fake out deaths are all the rage in Hollywood today, I can only hope the dead stay dead.

I think our only chance of seeing Papalymo again would be as a cameo during the grand finale of the saga, either in 6.0 or 6.3 or 7.0, when the WoL descends into the Lifestream to save the planet from the corruption. The WoL may see the ghosts/souls of all of his fallen comrades - the Scions who died in the initial attack on the Waking Sands, Moenbryda, Wilred, Haucherfant, Ysalye, Papalymo, and whoever else died in between. Nothing more than an afterimage from afar, however. Maybe with a faint, ghostly voiceover. Definitely no resurrections.

We could see him in Memoria with the new device at Bozja.