This Season, Savage is for Everyone

I'm noticing this patch that way more people who are sticking around are doing savage content, which is a nice change of pace. However, the limits on item rewards is becoming glaringly apparent in this environment even more so than prior patches. There is a need to help other people get through older content as a community, and right now all the blame on lack of adequate rewards for the effort going in is lumping onto the developer doorstep.

I'm going to put it bluntly, we should not be limiting the number of chests that drop per run based on the completion status of the people running the dungeon. The original intent of a system like this is to encourage the formation of static groups, but on the US servers it instead has helped create a Tuesday -> Wednesday grindfest in PF because everyone needs to rush and make sure to get in while the getting is good.

As for BiS and gearing speed of groups: The rate is really being capped by the completion status, not the chests, and people who are coming in late should be able to catch up faster. This isn't a competition for who does the final boss first for most people: It's just about getting to do the content.

Giving people more incentive to help others get first clears would be good, because almost nobody is going to suffer through hours of wipes for a paltry sum of phantasmagoria they can acquire faster elsewhere.

Seems to me like taking away the restriction would result in people who can clear just farming for themselves, not a wave of datacenter altruism. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the request.

Boy is that a lie, actually savage interest has dwindled and the further the weeks go by the more it does.

Request is just like the people who want over 450 tome cap weekly so they can gear "faster". That's not how it works in an MMO.

Two chests has always been in-place since 2.0, that is 2013, if you aren't counting. In-fact once you cleared you weren't even able to help others. It wasn't until Final Coil they added the ability to have one-chest.

you get to catch up when they unlock savage later on. until then you play the game the way the devs want you to play. they don't want you gearing up fast - you getting your stuff faster means you leave for other games faster. they gotta keep you around for as much they can.

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Originally Posted by technole

Boy is that a lie, actually savage interest has dwindled and the further the weeks go by the more it does.

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PF says otherwise, at least on Primal Data Center.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

The original intent of a system like this is to encourage the formation of static groups.

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Speaking bluntly, no. The intent of this system is to create an artificial limit on the amount of gear that can be delivered out on a weekly basis to keep content relevant for longer, and thus people's subs to run longer if they want raid gear. It's the same reason why tomes are limited to 450 a week, why 24mans during their release are 1 piece per week locked, and why daily/weekly quests exist. These systems are designed to extend content longevity and keep people subbed longer, nothing more, nothing less. Statics are just a natural response of players to optimize loot distribution within their savage system, not the intent of the developers.

So the odds of them releasing any locks is basically zero, given the intention of the systems. If you want to incentivize people helping others to clear though, then a more likely to be listened to/implemented idea would be to suggest things like massive increased tome rewards (Like say, giving out 200-250 tomes per clear instead of the paltry 50 they dole out.), auto-maxxing out your retry points in Wonderous Tails, sticking cosmetic stuff in each fight that's not based on a weekly lockout (materials, mounts, glamours, minions, etc, like in the 24 mans.)

There is no solution.

Content is limited in ffxiv at upper tier endgame. If they make it easier to get gear, then people will burn through savage content in 1 month out of a 6-8 month savage cycle. There is simply not enough lasting content in ffxiv for them to remove the artificial limits put in place.

I am not a fan of the content design in that respect... but because they chose the path of high quality designed content (long development time) and low grind (No Farming and Guaranteed specific drops every win), it is the only solution.

As for the above post I agree statics where not intended, it was made by the community. just like in EQ,EQ2,FFXI, WoW, Archeage, and so on guilds were created to tackle the content of those game. You see statics being primary progression in ffxiv because the content is low man in design. IN the other mmos it was large group in design so guilds were formed. If all the content would be done solo just as effectively, you would see most ppl running the content solo instead of with a group. People naturally flow into the path of least resistance. Atm statics are the easiest way to get gear effectively given the games design thus statics are king of progression.

If they change nothing and remove the limit you would not have more ppl helping. You would have statics gearing out all their jobs then unsubbing and playing another game until the next major patch.

Really? I’ve seen the opposite. Lots of people I did savage with last tier just can’t be bothered this tier and are taking a break.

I agree with Xatsh, the content is too small on the player count to encourage large free companies. I have seen so many 1 to 3 player FCs it makes my head spin. I would love to see more people in FCs like we had back in the 2.x series but there is nothing encouraging that. Increasing savage raid size to 16 would help a lot as it would make room for less performing players to be brought along. Think like a close friend or spouse who is not the best at the game. I’m not asking for free rides but it feels like... if your not a god of DPS and has perfect memory recall, don’t bother doing savage in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I agree with Xatsh, the content is too small on the player count to encourage large free companies. I have seen so many 1 to 3 player FCs it makes my head spin. I would love to see more people in FCs like we had back in the 2.x series but there is nothing encouraging that. Increasing savage raid size to 16 would help a lot as it would make room for less performing players to be brought along. Think like a close friend or spouse who is not the best at the game. I’m not asking for free rides but it feels like... if your not a god of DPS and has perfect memory recall, don’t bother doing savage in XIV.

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I gotta say this is one of the sweetest and nicest posts ive ever seen and youre totally right <3

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I agree with Xatsh, the content is too small on the player count to encourage large free companies. I have seen so many 1 to 3 player FCs it makes my head spin. I would love to see more people in FCs like we had back in the 2.x series but there is nothing encouraging that. Increasing savage raid size to 16 would help a lot as it would make room for less performing players to be brought along. Think like a close friend or spouse who is not the best at the game. I’m not asking for free rides but it feels like... if your not a god of DPS and has perfect memory recall, don’t bother doing savage in XIV.

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That's kinda what the 24-man raids are for tbh. And Eureka.

The Savage fights are supposed to be difficult, so not everyone can do them. Making them have more people and be less punishing kind of defeats the purpose imo.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

PF says otherwise, at least on Primal Data Center.

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Lots of PFs for savage doesn't necessarily mean more people are doing it, it could mean that more statics have broken due to people leaving.

Full PF's don't mean that people doing the content are clearing it. I've been stuck on e6s enrage since week 1. Granted after the third week of trying I kinda gave up only joining here and there if I feel like it. Recent turn of events and sadly having more free time has let me start back up again last week and I'm still shocked to see that people struggle after conflag. Lots of trap parties on primal sadly or my luck is just terrible.

No, the reason they limited the chests is not to encourage people to form statics. You know what people used to do in Coils, or atleast, what some hardcore groups would do? They'd have two characters each and then run the tier TWICE in one night, and get twice the loot from it because you'd have 4 people on alts and 4 on mains, at any given time.

However, this was only really done because the raids dropped the gear directly so it was more to get a higher chance of gear you want rather than to double the loot only. With the current coffer system, i dont think that's necessary at all. Like...People who have cleared for the week already can't role on the items that do drop from a single chest run so it just feels like a punishment to all those involved.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Giving people more incentive to help others get first clears would be good, because almost nobody is going to suffer through hours of wipes for a paltry sum of phantasmagoria they can acquire faster elsewhere.

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This. Exactly this-- and I couldn't agree more.