Poll: Which raid design style did you like the most?

I am curious, what people liked the most - just general design-wise. Because of this I've made a strawpoll:

https://www.strawpoll.me/19536507

Explanation of what I mean with each design style:

Coil of Bahamut Style:
Raid Instances start with a medium-sized dungeon with several waves of adds (some with mechanics). Final boss of each tier starts at or right before the boss room. Boss room cahave any shape, sometimes very odd.

Alexander Style:
Raid Instances start with a miniature-dungeon with only a few waves of trash-adds (no real mechanics). Final boss of each tier starts in the boss room. All savage instances start at the boss room. Boss room is always round or square.

Omega / Eden Style:
All Raid Instances consist of only a boss fight in a circular/square arena, both in normal & savage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arkfrost

I am curious, what people liked the most - just general design-wise.

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Oddly enough, I'd like to see "trash" be more significant, but not if it remains trash in earnest. If it's between a mere chore and nothing, I'll take nothing, but I'd rather have raids build a larger setting with genuinely interesting and potentially difficult encounters between the bosses rather than just have discrete arenas (i.e. be mere trials).

I liked Coil raids the best, where there were mook mobs between the entrance and the boss. What I'd really like is a raid where we progress through it like a true dungeon, with winding paths and backtracking. Sorta like Haukke Manor. Trash > Boss 1 > trash > Boss 2 > Split path, divide party > Boss 3 & 4 > meet up > Final Boss. Of course, given how Savage is designed, most people would complain I think, since it'd be a larger time commitment.

They did this in Baldesion Arsenal. Though the trash there was only really significant because it was akin to "trash" in the deeper parts of a Deep Dungeon, where if you fail to dodge, you're likely to die, and then raises don't work. It'd be nice to have that on a smaller scale, with rewards for each boss, reward tiering up the further into the raid you are. I mean, as it stands, most of the raid bosses, even in older raids are just Trials by another name. (also obviously, I'd want raises to work, otherwise prog would be terrible)

Omega/Eden style.
I dislike dungeons exactly because of the trash, I want at least raids (like Trials) to only be bosses.

Design wise I personally prefer the Alex Raid, but if the trash was actually challenging with real savage mechanics and weekly locked rewards like minions, crafting mats, upgrade items, etc. I'd love to see Coil design again.

Raids should be Super Dungeons, something like the 24-players Raids, but 8-players. With just one big fat boss to beat, Raids just look like Primal fights. And with a design that feel like your are going somewhere! Not just some weird interdimentional shift or vortex bringing us to an area floating in a void with a boss waiting there for no reason.

I'd love Coil-style raids.
Starting with raiding in this game and then only getting beamed on a platform with a single boss on it felt incredibly weird after the Rift, SW:TOR and WoW raids where you had a huge dungeon with multiple bosses and trash/ mini bosses inbetween.
It felt like you were raiding and not like a glorified primal fight. Progressing through a huge dungeon was more fun for me and the trash packs and mini bosses often had some funny twist or were a good way to blow off some steam by going mad with aoe. We had a good laugh in 70 Karazhan with the adds with full shadow immunity when the dotlock and my shadow priesty self boxed and daggered them to death. Or some trash packs in Firelands where fire geysir suddenly errupted on the tanks and grilled them. Didn't expect that.
Having a bit of trash or mini bosses also felt like a good warm-up. And we always had the "unspoken rule" of keeping "dying on cd on trash" - it was the time for some fun and trolling, we all had a good laugh and then could proceed to the bosses relaxed and warmed up.
The oddly shaped boss rooms often make for more interesting ways to deal with mechanics, perfectly square and even checked patterned platforms feel a bit like a crutch. It feels like the devs are telling where exactly to stand.

I'd also add that if we do Coil/Alex raids again, I'd like to see all CDs reset as soon as we enter the boss room so we aren't forced to not use them on trash or start the fight awkwardly.

I can see why people prefer eden and the like, I'd prefer more coil style encounters where even the dungeon itself can be the raid (turn 2), but failing that it'd be nice if arenas could at least be more interesting. As for trash i think trash should be made more interesting across the board and for how trash sections in raids should be designed maybe something closer to the 24 mans but obviously more difficult.

Baldesion Arsenal for the pure raid feeling.

Otherwise, no preference cause I have some favorite fight on each tier so.

I vastly prefer "real" raids to the glorified trials that FF14 calls raids nowadays.

I get that the mentality over here is that trash is a waste of time and raids are better off just being the boss fights, but there's just something missing when you magically teleport between 4 boss arenas and that's the whole tier. There's no sense of progression. No grandeur. No "holy cow, look at how far we've come" moment when you come out of the hallway and look down from the roof and see your NPC allies occupying the outdoor space that used to contain a boss fight. You just teleport to 4 bosses and kill them and that's it for 6 months.

WoW's method of making trash worth clearing is BoEs ("bind-on-equips"). Random drops that may or may not have good secondary stats or appearances, but they drop at the same item level as the boss loot from the same difficulty and if the secondaries are really just that bad, you can sell the BoE on the Auction House and make some quick gold. No idea if that sort of thing would go over well here with how formulaic and set in stone raid loot is in FF14, though, but I just want SOMETHING other than four generic arena shape bosses per tier. Doesn't even have to be Baldesion Arsenal-level complicated.

Hell, even a Faust-style DPS check prior to the second or third fight in the tier would make me happy at this point. ENOUGH with the glorified trials already.

As far as Duty Finder, I preferred the Alexander style. Just enough trash to give a warm-up and make sure everyone's awake before jumping into the boss fight. While I'd like to see longer full-party dungeons like the Coils, those feel more like something that should be done with an organized party, rather than whoever DF decides to throw together.

I personally think Alexander was the correct mix. Some stuff to do before you get to the boss, then the boss.

Coils was fun but the problem is there's a few turns that are extremely boring and pointless. (looking at you Turn 3).

I liked Omega fights and I like Eden but they are definitely missing the fun of seeing that Faust Z do massive crit damage on the tank.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

I personally think Alexander was the correct mix. Some stuff to do before you get to the boss, then the boss.

Coils was fun but the problem is there's a few turns that are extremely boring and pointless. (looking at you Turn 3).

I liked Omega fights and I like Eden but they are definitely missing the fun of seeing that Faust Z do massive crit damage on the tank.

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Hey... Turn 3 was fun... I mean if your raid group went silly with it like mine did >_> We always raced one another and tried to ignore all the trash except the golems, and then see who made it to the end first lol. Most people's issue with Turn 3 was that it was necessary to do to go to Turn 4, and you got absolutely nothing beyond that for the 5~10 minutes you spent going through it. I don't think you even got Tomes of Mythology, but it's been a long time.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Hey... Turn 3 was fun... I mean if your raid group went silly with it like mine did >_> We always raced one another and tried to ignore all the trash except the golems, and then see who made it to the end first lol. Most people's issue with Turn 3 was that it was necessary to do to go to Turn 4, and you got absolutely nothing beyond that for the 5~10 minutes you spent going through it. I don't think you even got Tomes of Mythology, but it's been a long time.

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To be fair, I had fun doing that recently with a new player in our fc who wanted to experience it, so I see your point :)