Can we talk about AST cards?

I've leveled every healer to lv80 so I've had experience with all three and I can safely say AST at the moment is bottom of the list and would never touch it again until next expansion. Biggest issue I have are the cards.

Now if you take note of the buffs you only have two different buffs spread to 6 cards.

Balance,Arrow,Spear
Increases damage dealt by a party member or self by 6%(8% lord of crowns) if target is melee DPS or Tank, or 3%(4% lord of crowns) for all other roles.

and

Bole,Ewer,Spire
Increases damage dealt by a party member or self by 6%(8% lady of crowns) if target is ranged DPS or healer, or 3%(4% lady of crowns) for all other roles.

The only reason to have that many cards is to maintain the RNG aspect of the draw.

Why do we need RNG on AST where other healers do not have to contend with RNG job mechanics?

I strongly dislike the RNG aspect of AST and would instead like to see a more direct approach to cards by allowing direct use of either buff while maintaining the ability to upgrade it to crowns. You can keep all the same cool downs but allow choice instead. AST biggest positives are it's Sects and Cards but not the cards RNG.

As of right now WHM is my go to healer and SCH is fairly neutral for me in that I neither love or hate it. However, if AST were to switch over to a more direct card mechanic it might just jump to number one on my list.



tl;dr
ASTRO CARDS: Maintain RNG OR Directly pick your buff?

All of this are my impressions on the job and are all my own opinion. No need to make it spicy.

Eh Well honestly I'm avoiding Ast because when every card is doing damage there isn't really a "rng" which removes the point of what the jobs enjoyment/fun was about which was gambling.

Oh, you'd hate to see what Astrologian used to be like, and that's what most people preferred.

Well WHM is indeed for you then.
But RNG isn't really the current problem of the card system right now.

The cards just serve to turn Divination into old Balance, with royal road(i think that was the one that made the cards AOE). I seem to only have problems getting the right types when there is more of the same job in the group. Thats when RNG wants to keep spitting out the cards opposite of the roles :/

These were the cards in SB.

Balance - dmg up
Bole - dmg taken reduction
Ewer- mp refresh
Spire - tp refresh
Arrow - speed up
Spear - crit up
These all lasted for 30s and could be extended via time dilation/Celestial Opposition or by royal road at cost of a previous card, royal road could also enhance or make the card aoe instead of extension.

Lord- direct dmg
Lady- heal

These were all noticable except Spire which was just not useful, Balance was top card due to its power and to make sure Ast didn't destroy both other healers(sorta failed from 3.4 with whm until 5.0) tied it to rng.

But this is what a good chunk of Ast people loved the class for, the highs were highs and the lows were god awful lows but it was different, it required extra engagement, and if people didn't like it there were 2 other widely different healer playstyles they could potential enjoy instead.

Unlike now where it feels we only have 1 healer playstyle and you are boned if you don't like it.

So Rng was always a part of the job from day 1, though in a very different manner.

I don't really play healers but i enjoy AST the most, and i have to admit current card system is pretty silly. Previous system had more depth into it and in my opinion should return.

Card RNG was always something AST had to deal with, from the day the job was implemented back in HW.

In fact it was even worse back then, as all cards had different effects back then. Only balance had a straight up damage increase. So that considered, the RNG aspect of the cards has been greatly reduced as every card now is a damage up buff (which would be equivalente to The Balance in the old card system).

I personally don't quite enjoy the card system as it is now, but my issues with it have nothing to do with RNG and everything to do with how clunky it feels in comparison to SB, which was when AST peaked imho.

Current AST opener is a mess (if you're aiming to align Divination with Other raid buff Windows), and the cards overall feel like a much clickier mess than it ever was (as before you could burn cards with Royal Road in oder to buff the next card used, and now every single card is dealt to a party member, so the amount of clicking you do on your party least has about doubled since SB).

I'd not mind cards being reverted back to the old SB system as it felt significantly less clunky to play, even if it meant an increase in card RNG. A few of them would of course have to be tweaked (Spire comes to mind, as its use was a TP refresh and TP is no longer in the game), but it'd add a bit more depth to the whole system while making for some smoother play.

The RNG has been reduced to the point where it can be entirely mitigated via your actions, essentially making it a job mechanic, rather than something that effects the party.
This is the best of both worlds really, the AST has rng to deal with, but the outcome is more or less standard and able to be balanced in a party setting.

Oddly I'm the opposite whilst I feel the cards are inferior to what they were like before.

I value AST over SCH and WHM as a healer because it has a little more complexity and Noct Sect is less efficient and cards add to the APM.

The end result is less downtime and more to do during in. The kit is clunker, but I've been able to find more situations where AST is still fun to play.

SCH and WHM on the other hand, too much downtime and too little to fill it.

I'm of the mind the card system should be more like Corsair's in XI because it addresses a couple of problems we have. There's no need to fish for the balance or seals. You choose the buff, RNG decides how effective it is and you have a mechanic to try to improve on your initial card but with an added risk factor of busting. It offered people RNG, it offered people the ability to make meaningful choices based on their situation and there was a level of risk for reward.

Whilst I'd prefer the older AST system personally, but the above is a better alternative to solving the problem the current system was meant to solve.

My alternative to that would have been to only change Lord/Lady to what we have now. Fished a card you cannot make us of or hold? Minor Arcana it into a pseudo-balance. No wasted cards, RNG, and if in a situation where you'd rather use The Arrow or The Bole, you can.

It is hard to play it on a controller at first.. but you feel like a God/Goddess when you go into sleeve draw, and toss cards while dealing damage in between and you hit all the right people flawlessly.

I actively played AST since it came out until the job I always wanted (Dancer) was released and while I never hated the old card system, I also never found it to be super interesting? I never felt like there was all this cool on the fly decision making or a complicated puzzle to solve because it was already figured out. The impact of the utility cards, while flavorful, was so small that realistically it didn't matter all that much. If you needed a Bole to save someone stuff was already going **** up, Spire & Ewer were nice for after a res but otherwise Royal Road fodder, Arrow threw off some jobs' rotation, original Spear CD reduction was just awful and clunky. Balance was always good and Lord & Lady were nice in a pinch.

That said the system we have now while a bit less RNG is probably worse from a 'class fantasy' aspect so maybe they should take the whole job back to the drawing board for the next expansion.

I don't mind the RNG of the cards. The thing I don't like is them not knowing what they want with the job. I'll probably level it up eventually, but I kind of feel like what's the point of learning AST or some other jobs when they're just going to up and change things -again- by removing abilities or changing what they do and how the job is supposed to perform. I'm not interested in sticking with it to get better at it either. I'm not saying some changes can't be good, adding new abilities that mesh with the current stuff, but job overhauls are annoying.

I rather enjoyed AST in HW and SB.

I liked the cards having different effects and used each one as effectively as possible, it was engaging and kept me focused on what I needed to do.

Unlike the group of people just fishing for that Damage Buff one that everyone did. Which got us the mess we currently have.

ShB AST feels clunky with the cards and honestly boring, I fall asleep playing it.

I dropped it, and healing in general, from my list of played classes. I keep it leveled and geared now only for the sake of helping new players out, and in the small hope of getting something like the old card system back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rasikko

It is hard to play it on a controller at first.. but you feel like a God/Goddess when you go into sleeve draw, and toss cards while dealing damage in between and you hit all the right people flawlessly.

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Really? Because I feel more like a vending machine.

it's kinda the opposite. The new card systems basically removed a lot of the rng that made the class fun. It's more predictable now but it cost the job a lot. Both in terms of gameplay variety and lore.

RNG was never gone, not even one bit.

HW + StB ver. list of RNG:

1. Get the right card for AoE royal road
2. Get Balance for optimal dps result
3. Optional: play cards how you want

ShB ver. list of RNG:

1. Get the right card for your melee
2. Get the right card for your range/caster
3. Get your sun seal
4. Get your moon seal
5. Get your third seal that's not sun or moon for divination.

Did I hear someone say the amount of RNG is reduce in ShB? :rolleyes:

Also,

Before: With one card I can buff all!
After: The dev wants you to send your regards to your party members via this deck of cards to each of them ONE BY ONE.

These are pretty much the reason I decide to put my cards in garbage can instead.

Expect a major overhaul by 6.0. With such a negative reception AST got I would be shocked if they leave it like this.

Also, wanna know what's worse than getting Spire? getting 4 Spires... in a row

I've the opposite opinion on AST than you OP, I think there being only two buffs with so many cards is extremely shallow. The main appeal of the class at least in theory was the RNG element, something that anyone that doesn't want to contend with can avoid by being scholar and white mage, which gives you access to a regen or a shield healer.

If it were my choice, I'd have designed it so every card had actual different effects. At a time when healers have been too streamlined to avoid balance issues and RNG- I don't think the direction is to remove yet more of what makes different jobs interesting but to instead expand on it. As long as you aren't in a situation where having a scholar makes content trivial and having an AST makes it's impossible, but I don't think we're anywhere near having so massive a gulf in healer viability right now, and some differentiation would help.

Card system is fine, so is the RNG.

I'm just glad Spire and Ewer are actually useful now.

I used to love AST, but now I'm not touching it with a stick. I find the new cards system a bit boring (and since I didn't get to learn it properly, also a bit confusing).
I don't lose hope that we'll get the old AST back someday (>_<)