(Spoilers)So did the Scions see it?

The star shower of course. Did they see it and hear Hydaelyn and now have awoken the Echo (so they can conveniently come with us against future primals) or was it just the residents of the Crystarium gathered there?

They all saw it. However they themselves have not awakened to the Echo, as told by the fact that they did not hear Hydaelyn's call. Does this mean they aren't sundered Ancients, or mayhap their potential in 'the gift' is lower than those who did awaken to the Echo at the Crystarium? We don't really have a precise answer on that.

On a side note, having them help us fight primals would be something I'd love.

My guess is, for the Scion's at least, is they didn't awaken to the Echo because it wasn't really them. As for Ryne, I don't know about her. I don't think she has the Echo, at least the way Minfilia did, but she does have something, being the Oracle of Light and all.

Eden spoiler

In E8 Ryne becomes the vessel for Shiva, similar to Ysayle. However, unlike Ysayle she loses control of herself. Originally, possession of the Echo was thought to be the reason for Ysayle's maintained control. However, it was proven that the summoning of a Primal into one's self does not mean they lose control, as both Thordan and Yotsuyu still retained their sense of being. But Ryne is not as experienced in life as the other three individuals, so that is probably the main reason.

They saw it but they didn't mention getting the Echo so I'd have to assume they didn't get it. Which means either they're not sundered Ancients, or just seeing the meteor shower isn't enough for some people.

Alternatively, it may be that Elidibus is simply lying. We know the Ascians are capable of granting the Echo one way or another since the Sahagin priest had it, and so the whole starshower affair might just be a charade. Like, I genuinely don't think this is a likely explanation--it would be cheap to bring the starshower back as a plot point and then reveal it as a lie--but it's always worth keeping in mind that Ascians use deception as a tool liberally.

The Scions on the First (other than the WoL, who already has the Echo) are just soul shells without true physical bodies. It might just not work on them.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

The Scions on the First (other than the WoL, who already has the Echo) are just soul shells without true physical bodies. It might just not work on them.

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I don't think that explains it. Thancred and I think Y'shtola have seen the starshower at least once before in 1.0. Also if you choose Lue-Reeq or Taynor to come in the inn room, they say they saw the starshower. It seems they didn't awaken either because if they did, I think they would have said so.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Eden spoiler

In E8 Ryne becomes the vessel for Shiva, similar to Ysayle. However, unlike Ysayle she loses control of herself. Originally, possession of the Echo was thought to be the reason for Ysayle's maintained control. However, it was proven that the summoning of a Primal into one's self does not mean they lose control, as both Thordan and Yotsuyu still retained their sense of being. But Ryne is not as experienced in life as the other three individuals, so that is probably the main reason.

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10 characters:

Did Thordan and Yotsuyu keep control though? The goals of what they summoned were so close to their own that I doubt we'd notice either way?

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Originally Posted by Jandor

10 characters:

Did Thordan and Yotsuyu keep control though? The goals of what they summoned were so close to their own that I doubt we'd notice either way?

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Ten chars....

Thordan kept control, but Yotsuyu was implied to have lost control after the add phase of the fight. The key difference is that Thordan was completely focused on his goals, while Yotsuyu was conflicted after the specter of Gosetsu showed up among her subconscious ghosts to protect her, which broke her focus and let the primal Tsukuyomi take over.

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Originally Posted by RenewalXVII

Alternatively, it may be that Elidibus is simply lying. We know the Ascians are capable of granting the Echo one way or another since the Sahagin priest had it, and so the whole starshower affair might just be a charade. Like, I genuinely don't think this is a likely explanation--it would be cheap to bring the starshower back as a plot point and then reveal it as a lie--but it's always worth keeping in mind that Ascians use deception as a tool liberally.

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I personally think the starshower was an event not everyone in Ancient times witnessed. Like any natural disaster, people were about their daily lives. I mean there's always that one story of the guy who was in the bathroom or shower when it happened. There may also be the fact not every soul was created at that time, as they may have been on their journey to the underworld, and not reborn. You could have Ancients that were really young and didn't see it. So I think "everyone saw the starshower as an Ancient" may be an incorrect assumption.

As far as Elidibus lying I don't think it may be about that but wouldn't put it past him to lie as he did to the WoD.

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Originally Posted by RenewalXVII

Alternatively, it may be that Elidibus is simply lying. We know the Ascians are capable of granting the Echo one way or another since the Sahagin priest had it, and so the whole starshower affair might just be a charade. Like, I genuinely don't think this is a likely explanation--it would be cheap to bring the starshower back as a plot point and then reveal it as a lie--but it's always worth keeping in mind that Ascians use deception as a tool liberally.

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I'm going to assume everything he claimed about Hydealyn are lies or half-truths at best, including the assumptions Urianger came up with. No better way to lie than to just confirm mistakes others come up with. Confirmation bias will almost guarantee they'll believe it.

Not sure if it's been stated, but could the other Scions not have recieved the Echo because their "bodies" in the First aren't their true bodies, and their soul or mind or aether may be split between the First and Source, thus making them unable to awaken the Echo?

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Originally Posted by KalinOrthos

Not sure if it's been stated, but could the other Scions not have recieved the Echo because their "bodies" in the First aren't their true bodies, and their soul or mind or aether may be split between the First and Source, thus making them unable to awaken the Echo?

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Many times.

It's also been countered at least 2 of them saw the starshower in 1.0 so....