problems with this gearing system

I'm just wondering why Ruby Weapon gives a 485 weapon for 1-2 lockouts worth of work when the previous end game fight gave a 475.

This is bizarre. This is not RPG design. There's catch up mechanics and then there's whatever strange mess this is. Call me crazy, but I expect to be able to actually progress and use my gear from the previous tier on the next tier. I understand there's a hard reset between expansions, but c'mon, really? You won't even have gear persistence from one tier of the same expansion to the next?

Why is week 1 gear 480? This situation creates a form of an RPG where the gearing feedback loop for taking out the strongest content isn't even used in the very next fight. This is absurd. Gear resets like this used to only happen in MMOs between entire expansions and now we're doing it between literal content patches?

How about just handing cosmetic and vanity items as rewards for savage fights if you're gonna pull this kind of catch up system? I'm not against catch ups because I know that's going to be the straw man, but geez. This is ridiculous when there's essentially no progression between savage tiers at all. It's going way too far off the deep end when it comes to RPG mechanics to just do the previous tier gear dirty like that. Maybe if players got umbrellas or anime ears or whatever for killing savage bosses that would be more honest than the bait and switch that it's going to actually be useful RPG gear going forward to the next progress fight in the expac.

Catch up does not mean better than end game. It's catch up.

You can, my static cleared e5s in 470 gear with 475 weapon.

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Originally Posted by Toystore

Catch up does not mean better than end game. It's catch up.

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That depends. If you want people to be able to catch up to current content without having to farm the old content, then it has to give at least the same reward as previous content. And if it is catch up, you cannot be sure that all the gears are up to date, so the higher weapon can mix with lower level gears in other slots to create the required minimum item level. Without it, you'd have to gear up all the slots.

Essentially it doesn't assume that everyone will have access to fully pentamelded HQ crafted gears, and most people will have a mixture of gears, some higher and some lower than the requirement for the new content.

I do think its a little silly that its 485, to be honest. Is completely devalues the crafted weapons in almost every way, no wonder in almost a week barely 10 of each have sold on my server - nobody needs them.

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Originally Posted by VenKitsune

I do think its a little silly that its 485, to be honest. Is completely devalues the crafted weapons in almost every way, no wonder in almost a week barely 10 of each have sold on my server - nobody needs them.

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Only devalues the crafted gear if you do extreme and not much are sold because they are crazy expensive for the first month

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Originally Posted by Toystore

I'm just wondering why Ruby Weapon gives a 485 weapon for 1-2 lockouts worth of work when the previous end game fight gave a 475.

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Because Ruby Weapon is a new end-game fight. E4S is at least six months old at this point—a bit more, actually; it’s not current content anymore, it’s old content. Newer end-game content usually gives higher item level rewards (dungeons not included).

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This is bizarre. This is not RPG design. There's catch up mechanics and then there's whatever strange mess this is. Call me crazy, but I expect to be able to actually progress and use my gear from the previous tier on the next tier. I understand there's a hard reset between expansions, but c'mon, really? You won't even have gear persistence from one tier of the same expansion to the next?

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You can usually prog and clear the first two Savage floors with previous tier BiS. It’s the third and fourth floors that will require you to have the crafted/Ruby Weapon gear (though, you can just do crafted—the weapon from Ruby Weapon isn’t necessary to clear). E8S will require you to be in full i480 simply to survive some of the AOE damage (the first raidwide hit in there almost kills you even with mitigation—my group does Passage + Temperance + Deployed Adlo and it still takes us to ~35% HP—if we forget one of these, we drop down to sub 10% sometimes, depending on which mitigation we forgot).

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Why is week 1 gear 480?

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Because E8S requires it for survivability at the very least; DPS check, second.

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This situation creates a form of an RPG where the gearing feedback loop for taking out the strongest content isn't even used in the very next fight. This is absurd. Gear resets like this used to only happen in MMOs between entire expansions and now we're doing it between literal content patches?

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The previous tier BiS is still BiS for TEA because of the item level sync and how item level sync negates materia melds. So you can still use it for that.

This system isn’t new. It’s been around since ARR—so over 6 years, now. It’s how this game has always handled new gear when new tiers release.

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How about just handing cosmetic and vanity items as rewards for savage fights if you're gonna pull this kind of catch up system? I'm not against catch ups because I know that's going to be the straw man, but geez. This is ridiculous when there's essentially no progression between savage tiers at all. It's going way too far off the deep end when it comes to RPG mechanics to just do the previous tier gear dirty like that. Maybe if players got umbrellas or anime ears or whatever for killing savage bosses that would be more honest than the bait and switch that it's going to actually be useful RPG gear going forward to the next progress fight in the expac.

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There are already vanity rewards from Savage (i.e., the mount drops exclusively from the final floor). The fact that the Savage gear is usually a dyeable version of the normal mode gear has also been cited as “vanity” in the past (since people like having the ability to dye the gear for glamour reasons). Savage gear now is good for progressing in new Ultimate fights, where they are absolutely mandatory. If a new Ultimate was to release in 5.3, you would want to upgrade your gear to the i500 Verse Savage gear for both damage and survivability. Unfortunately, we won’t see one in 5.3; I’m guessing the second Ultimate this expansion will be for 5.5, meaning the final Eden Savage tier gear will be BiS for it—and Verse gear will be used for entry-level prog for that tier.

it's like you don't know this game uses a vertical gear progression ladder system. hmmm

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Originally Posted by Toystore

Call me crazy, but I expect to be able to actually progress and use my gear from the previous tier on the next tier

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Actually...

It started in Heavensward. People asked that previous gear could still be used on the next tier, or at least at the beginning of the tier so there's a valuable reason to be BiS, until we gradually get new tomestone and savage gear (if you don't directly go for the nm/crafted/extreme).
It started with Alexander:Creator. So that's a while now.
That's why currently min ilvl is around 470.

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Originally Posted by VenKitsune

I do think its a little silly that its 485, to be honest. Is completely devalues the crafted weapons in almost every way, no wonder in almost a week barely 10 of each have sold on my server - nobody needs them.

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Personally I know few players who run EX to get the weapons. They're more interested in getting the mount.

On the other hand, I've made several 480 weapons on request this past week for friends who brought me the mats.

People aren't buying from the market board because they don't want to pay marketboard prices. Those who need the weapons for Savage progression are dealing direct with crafters they already know. As prices come down, those who want the crafted weapons will start buying.

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Originally Posted by VenKitsune

I do think its a little silly that its 485, to be honest. Is completely devalues the crafted weapons in almost every way, no wonder in almost a week barely 10 of each have sold on my server - nobody needs them.

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They are selling like hot cakes on my server. Not everyone wishes to do Extremes or Savage, and a crafted weapon will tide most people over until they get their new tomestone weapon or relic.

Precious tier:
Tomes/Crafted=460
Hades=465
Upgraded=470
Savage=475

Current tier:
Tomes/Crafted=480
Ruby=485
Upgraded=490
Savage=495

Notice the pattern?

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Precious tier:
Tomes/Crafted=460
Hades=465
Upgraded=470
Savage=475

Current tier:
Tomes/Crafted=480
Ruby=485
Upgraded=490
Savage=495

Notice the pattern?

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You're comparing the 5.2 tier to the 5.0+5.1 tier, while you should be comparing the 5.2 tier to the 5.0 tier.

Patch 5.0:

• Crafted/Titania: 450
• Tomestone: 460 [5.1 addition - Augmented crafted: 460]
• [5.1 addition - Hades: 465]
• Upgraded Tomestone: 470
• Savage: 475

Patch 5.2:

• Crafted: 480
• Ruby Weapon: 485
• Tomestone: 490 [Likely 5.3 addition - Augmented crafted: 490]
• [Likely 5.3 addition - New trial weapon: 495]
• Upgraded Tomestone: 500
• Savage: 505

The incorrect pattern in your tier comparison isn't the same as the actual pattern between patches.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

You're comparing the 5.2 tier to the 5.0+5.1 tier, while you should be comparing the 5.2 tier to the 5.0 tier.

5.0:
Crafted/Titania: 450 [5.1 addition - Augmented crafted: 460]
Tomestone: 460
[5.1 addition - Hades: 465]
Upgraded Tomestone: 470
Savage: 475

5.2
Crafted: 480 [Likely 5.3 addition - Augmented crafted: 490]
Ruby Weapon: 485
Tomestone: 490
[Likely 5.3 addition - New trial weapon: 495]
Upgraded Tomestone: 500
Savage: 505

They did break the pattern of having the initial EX trial weapon at the same iLvl as the crafted one.

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Not really. Was the same in 4.0

Susano weapon was 320, along with crafted. Tome 330, raid 340, wep 345

4.2

Byakko was 355, crafted 350, tome 360, upgraded 370, wep 375 for raid.

I am infuriated that the work of the godsmith Gerolt, which took me few days to collect tombstones, dwell into numerous dungeons and trials, and gathering mats that are exceptionally rare... Is vastly inferior to what I collected and buy from the tomb vendor now.

/s

Btw e8s shoulda give iL505 and thou shall aim for that.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Not really. Was the same in 4.0

Susano weapon was 320, along with crafted. Tome 330, raid 340, wep 345

4.2

Byakko was 355, crafted 350, tome 360, upgraded 370, wep 375 for raid.

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The guy I quoted was comparing the previous tier to the current tier, and how those two specific tiers showed a pattern of the EX trial weapon being higher than the crafted weapon. Edited my previous post for better wording.

Ruby EX weapons can't be anything below 385 really or crafted would make it obsolete. It already nearly does.

Crafted is an utter joke to make now. I made an entire 480 set on day one. It can even be pentamelded and materia rains from the sky nowadays. It would be silly if the only gear drop from the EX trial of this patch was worse than something we can throw together in 40 sec with a few easily obtained mats.

Thats why eso has best gear system.

I have to agree that i'm a bit tired of having to "update" my gear so often. For example if an update has 6 new dungeons/raids, i would prefer most of them to give gear that has about the same iLvl as the previous content, and maybe two of them awarding higher iLvl gear.
Eden & tomestones, which i consider to be 5.2's "easy" content, respectively award 480 iLvl and 490 iLvl gear, which is already higher than the gear you get with the hardest content possible of the last update (Eden Savage & Hades Savage).
For me, this is where the problem lies. For example, before this update, i really wanted to get the Eden Savage armor set, but now that i can easily get iLvl 480 gear, i'm not so sure anymore (i mean, i will still get it because the glamour looks amazing).

I think what is important is that newer players can have access to the hardest content in a relatively easy way, which is already achieved currently (you just need to grind tomestones and the easy content for a week, and you'll be all set).
However i do think that for existing players, it would be better not to have so many iLvl checks along the way, every time new content is released. After all, what is really interesting for most end game players, is to beat the hardest content, to get the best gear (as opposed to : having to grind easy raids to get the required iLvl to then finally grind end-game content).

I mean, i understand that SE adds these steps so that people don't clear all the new content in a week, but still, i wonder if that's the right way to do it.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Only devalues the crafted gear if you do extreme and not much are sold because they are crazy expensive for the first month

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BUt crafted gears main draw is that its ideal for raiders - If the crafted weapons are trumped by an extreme's weapon in the very same patch, content raiders are likely to do, then yes it does devalue them, i dont think many casual players would buy or craft the crafted gear just for their daily expert roulettes.