Similar to how primal mounts eventually became earnable through tokens, why not give the achievement for the shark mount an alternate condition? This way, every trip is still considered progress regardless of RNG.
Fish a total of 100,000 points' worth of fish.
It's high enough that it'll still take a LOT of runs to earn, and those who are lucky enough to get 10,000 during this process just earn it a bit faster.
Please consider this, SE. Please.
My humble suggestion for improving Ocean Fishing
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02-22-2020, 11:38 PMDarker_MidnightMy humble suggestion for improving Ocean Fishing
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02-23-2020, 01:30 AMRyuSaarva
100, 000 is way too low if such a thing would even exist and I hope it will never exist, not every item in the game needs to be a common item which everyone has.
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02-23-2020, 01:54 AMVirusOnline
While I do agree that 100,000 is too low (I would suggest 750,000 as a translation from Gold Saucer mechanics), I also agree that something must be done. It's not about being a common item that everyone has. It's about not relying on RNG to be your one and only mechanic to get any sense of points. Gold Saucer does this well, having an event you can earn a good amount of points from every 20m. But being reliant on rainbows/spectral currents on top of being dependent on a group of mixed level fishers with differing goals is disgusting and is borderline driving me and plenty others insane.
On top of that the event is every 2 hours. If you have no rainbows, you literally earn the same amount of points that Gold Saucer gives out in a single 20m event window or even less.
Synthetic RNG for the sake of forcing content to be and stay relevant is poor design and always has been. RNG + reliance on others with differing goals is a poor system to maintain for the future imo. -
02-23-2020, 01:58 AMEspritduo
100k points is nothing to sneeze at. I've been ramming my head against this content for three days nonstop and I am still a good ways off from 100k total. It's not an insane grind by any means, but it definitely takes some dedication to the content for a bit to get. Whereas the way it is now you have a bunch of My First Fishers running around on Hybodus mounts who have never picked up a fishing rod in their life before this, and just drooled on their keyboard and had the one and only Fishing-unique mount plopped on their laps. I'll take the mild grind over that insult any day, although I personally would want it to be the 500k achievement to really make this mount a Fisher's mount instead of the lottery freebie it is right now.
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02-23-2020, 05:00 AMSuperZay
100k is way too low, I got it in 3 days and most will get within a week. And then content will die like many before it. No, thanks.
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02-23-2020, 07:19 AMreivaxe
Oh gods no, not everything needs a guaranteed buy point. This mount is a carrot on the stick to get people interested in fishing content which it seems to be successful in doing. Work towards getting the achievement instead of working towards a mindless grind.
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02-23-2020, 08:47 AMEspritduoYes, because all those level 1 fishers who got it by luck on their first try "worked" towards it. This is the ONLY Fishing-exclusive mount in the game and it takes no experience or skill in fishing to obtain. If there was another mount for actually dedicating yourself to the content it would be fine, but there isn't. This is THE fishing mount, the top reward for the job for a lot of people. To get it the way people are getting it is a travesty to the job and an insult to all those who have stuck with it over the years, period.Quote:
Originally Posted by reivaxe
Not everything should be a grind, but not everything should be a lottery with no player knowledge or skill required either. There is a happy medium and making it cost points, but not a disgusting amount of points, is perfectly fair. Good/dedicated fishers will get it relatively fast, but everyone will get it eventually if they sit down and work on it.
And I should note that making it cost points wouldn't be any more of a "mindless grind" than what people are already doing to get the mount. If it cost a few hundred thousand points people would still be doing exactly what they are doing now for it - trying to catch every boat and trying to maximize their points per run by getting spectral currents, big fish, etc. It would be no different except everyone would actually earn the thing when they got it, instead of some people being handed out freebies for nothing and there would be a lot less stress and griping about it.
Also, I guess I should mention I just got the mount myself, and at the same time got my 100k point achievement. If I had actually gotten it for the 100k point achievement I would have felt like I earned it, instead I just feel like I finally got lucky, which after a while doesn't feel so good anymore. -
02-23-2020, 08:57 AMElazulHP
Hmm... If they were going to give an alternate way to earn it I would either suggest making the horn a small % from desynth some of the fish. Or a small % to desynth the fish into a loot box which then has a small % chance to drop the mount as well as some other cool stuff they could add to keep people interested.
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02-23-2020, 09:03 AMEspritduo
To be honest, I don't think they should make an alternate way of getting the mount, nor do I think it's realistic to expect them to change the achievement at this point. That ship has sailed, so to speak. What they need to do is incentivize fishing point accumulation over time SOMEHOW. Either a shop or a new mount/something cool for accumulating points, since as it stands there's no reason at all to accumulate them, which just seems like a huge waste of potential to keep people doing the content.
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02-23-2020, 09:50 AMSuperZayRNG mount for RNG job, seems fair. Fits the core nature of fishing. My 40+ The Ruby Dragon wndows and still without any result don't require any skill either, it's just a pure luck if I'll ever catch it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Espritduo
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02-23-2020, 12:55 PMreivaxeCan you show me an example of a level 1 fisher getting the mount? And this content seems CLEARLY designed to encourage more people to try fishing so I'm not sure why it's reward should be locked behind being a level capped hardcore fisher. Like, I have all my crafts at 80 now and have a brand new out look on crafting after the restoration stuff ... I could get the rewards from that anytime I wanted. Hell, you can buy the rewards from that with gil on the MB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Espritduo
Anyway, the mount being an achievement behind RNG is in keeping with the spirit of the Job imo.
*Shrug -
02-23-2020, 01:08 PMPepsi_Plunge
IMO you need to be at least level 65 for double hook to get it. And even then you have a hard time because of limited GP.
Anyway, once you reach level 80 with proper gear the mount is not so hard to get:
1. Join an all-level-80-group
2. Hope for a 3 spectral shift run (one at every stop)
3. Use Double Hook as often as you can during spectral shift (save pots and all GP for it)
How many fish you can catch during a spectral shift is more or less the "make it or break it" in a run, as those fish give you a huge amount of points. And if you are with a good group you get 60-80% at the end on top of it. -
02-23-2020, 01:28 PMDoozerThat sounds fun in theory, until half of them leave because they didn't get the spectral current in the first area. Ocean fishing is already plagued with horrid RNG, but your success also relies on other people both trying and not giving up. You'd be surprised at how rare that actually is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge
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02-23-2020, 01:51 PMPepsi_PlungeSo what? Leave with them and start over. You are still in a group, you can get back together on the next ship. If you don't get the spectral in the first area your run is most likely ruined anyway. No need to stay behind alone if you actually have a second chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doozer
That's why you make a full-80-group. If you hit the spectral, great. If you don't, leave together and take the next ship. -
02-23-2020, 08:18 PMEspritduoThe very first person who made the shark mount thread got the mount first trip sub-80. Maybe saying level 1 is a bit of an exaggeration, but it is definitely possible for a totally new fisher who has effectively done no other real fishing and just hopped into Ocean fishing to get lucky enough, even without Double Hooking or Patience, to get over 10k. And saying the mount is in spirit with the job is just plain false and insulting to anyone who actually fishes a lot. Any individual fish has a large RNG aspect to it, but no matter how lucky or unlucky you are per fish, getting every big fish and the Grandmaster Caster title is a huge effort that requires a lot of time, effort, planning, and knowledge of the content. It's not "just RNG lols" and the ONLY mount for Fishing should not be a lolrng mount.Quote:
Originally Posted by reivaxe
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02-23-2020, 08:21 PMEspritduoAnd that screws over the other two groups on the boat still trying to get spectral currents. You can be a selfish ass and leave if you want, but don't try and pretend you're not doing a disservice to the other groups by doing so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge
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02-23-2020, 08:37 PMPepsi_PlungeI don't think it really matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Espritduo
If the spectral doesn't trigger the highscore-run is over anyway, no matter how many stay or leave. I mean, that's the reason why people leave in the first place. Also they are free to do the same thing and take another boat.
And if they are there for leveling it doesn't make much of a different how many are still on the boat. Most of your XP comes from the HQ-fish you catch, not from the group bonus or how many points you get at the end. Triggering the intuition buff and catching those "bossfishs" are also something you do alone without teamwork. Actually, even for leveling you make much more xp by leaving after the first stop to boat another, because that way it gives you 4 stops total instead of 3 every two hours.
You only screwing people over if the spectral triggers but you leave after that anyway. -
02-23-2020, 08:52 PMEspritduo
It is still possible to get 10k with two currents, though. Heck there are people who have gotten 10k with just ONE current, so there is no non-selfish reason to ever leave. And the currents themselves have fish people may want to get. The "big blues" in the spectral currents it seems have finally been figured out, and I myself still need a few spectral current fish for my fishing log, primarily from the final stops on the trip. When people leave on the first stop it screws over the group in more ways than one.
EDIT: ANd obviously, if half your team leaves you personally have zero chance of getting 10k, but in those situations I would still stick it out to try and help the other two groups, and maybe get a couple fish I am still missing from my log. Not everyone wants to be that noble of course, but it is still selfish to leave just because you have no chance knowing you're just further hurting the other groups. -
02-24-2020, 07:58 PMAlleoThen put it behind the 500k at the end..right now it does not even mean someone has done quite well. You just need to be lucky..first run, have other people give you three spectrals and maybe catch some nice fish while under that and you have earned it..putting it behind the other achievements at least mean that people will try their best for a longer time...and it will help those with terrible luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuSaarva
And this RNG is probably one of the biggest points on why people dont like this job. So instead of trying out somethingn new which could introduce more people to fishing (which might in turn give it more content) lets just stick with the old RNG way..where you can be with the best gear, and right bait and the exact right moment with the exact right weather and it still gets away..at least one content where this was not the case would have been nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZay
You dont, there were people on reddit that said that they got it while they were still only lvl 12. You just need three rainbows which also gives you more bonus and if you may have RNG on your side and be the one to catch the spectral fish that start its you get another bonus on top of that. Now only get enough fish while the spectral lasts and its done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge
I got my shark mount with only two spectral phases, one of the phases dropped really low on the timer too. Giving up the run after the first place means that you may have given up the chance to get it and made it worse for everyone else, sadly your behaviour is not punished. If you drop out later then it makes no sense because you cant catch another boat so why not stay until the end? Then you may at least get some points for the other achievement or you may help someone get their shark pet..Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge