Definitions of midcore / hardcore / casual a bit warped here...

So I'm looking to get into some group stuff in this game...

And I'm looking at assorted recruiting ads on places like the Balance and getting way baffled...

Seeing things like:

"we're a midcore static, we raid 8-days a week for 25 hours a day, must be willing to urinate into a 7-Up bottle while raiding, please attach your Flogs which much be in the top 0.0000000001% because we're just casual, not hardcore or anything..."

Or... ok... I'm being silly there...

But I do see things like:

Raid night are M, T, W, Sun, 7pm-2am, casual-midcore...

And I'm like...

Boy... that ain't casual, ain't midcore... back in WoW that wasn't even hardcore... there are crack addicts who take their addiction less seriously than that...

I get it...

I'm killing my shot at getting into ANY group with this post...

But WTF is up with these recruitment ads?

In any other MMO; if you raid more than once a week, you're not casual. More than twice, you just hit hardcore.

If you're keeping logs period; that's upper midcore to hardcore.

I don't mind this... I just want to be able to actually target myself to the right group...

Back in WoW... where folks would publicly shame each other over logs... odd thing was... guilds realized folks had lives outside the game... and the guy who'd actually offer up his logs usually got laughed out because they really wanted your logs of how you did with them... not the padded ones you put together with your mates in the months after progression... last time I saw a guild other than one that was trying for world-scores that raided more than 2-3 times a week was over a decade ago.

Their hardcore guilds would be seen as 'casual scrubs' here... if I read these recruitment posts right.

Am I just totally looking in the absolute wrong place when I look in the Balance discord? Are they freaks there... or is that normal.

As I type this I'm seeing a group looking for:
"7 days/wk commitment
- virtually any time"

and another:

"Hours:
Mon: 8-10 pm est
Tues: 8-10 pm est
Thurs: 6-10 pm est
Fri: 6-8 pm est"

And then:

"Tuesday-Friday 6:00 PM - 9:00 PM PST"
(unless I read that wrong, that's 4 nights a week). The same ad also has:
Needs to be chill.
Willing to raid on the weekends to get more

... Nah ese; that schedule ain't chill...

And these are not the most intense examples...

Now that WoW is permanently in my rearview mirror thanks to that company's attitude...

I like this game but... where are the people that are not junkies?

I need to find me a better discord to look for them... O.o

sign me as 'casual scrub' or 'pathetic WoW refugee' - your choice I guess. :P

Midcore doesn't exist.

Hardcore exists only if you're on the bleeding edge of content, are willing and able to put in the hours and time, and can potentially server "medal" clear (so first 3 clears on server). You don't have a schedule, the group merely collectively decides when to sleep.

Casual is everyone else that enters Savage.

If you don't enter Savage, you're not even on the list.

I usually take those designations as how seriously the group is taking progression and average skill level when compared to the top 0.1% instead of hours played. HC is just the one that has the least amount of variance.

I always assumed it was just hours spent per week

You can pretty much tell what kind of group it is with the raiding schedule. Anything more than 3 days a week for 3+ hours is Mid to soft hardcore. Casual is more on the line of 2 hours here and there. Even though I'm confident with AST, I'd never join a hardcore group. Just not my thing.

I think it's because the party size is relatively small. So there might be expectation that it would be easier for even people who consider themselves as casuals to gather people together more than once a week.

Or it could be the attitude. Raid long hours, casually, not expecting strict progress or disband.

There are no clear definitions and they can refer to either mindset or schedule. You can't really bring in definitions across games because each game and their community is different so the definitions are also different. It's best if you just find a group that fits your own circumstances and goals. You can have a groups with casual schedule and hardcore mindset, or the other way around. Generally the loose definitions tend to be as follows:

Mindset:
-Casual: We just play for fun. It's nice if we clear.
-Midcore: We want to clear before the next raid tier comes out.
-Hardcore: We want to clear as soon as possible.

Schedule:
-Casual: 2 days a week or less. Less than 3 hours a day.
-Midcore: 3 days a week. 3 hours a day.
-Hardcore: 4-7 days a week. 3-24 hours a day.

One particular aspect about schedules that muddies the definitions is that you can have a group that raids everyday until they clear a fight, but after that only farms the weekly reclears for like 2 hours once a week.

Generally you just want to figure out 3 things and ask these questions from the groups you apply to as well:
-What is your mindset?
-What is kind of schedule fits you?
-What do you want to do after your group clears?

Rather than trying put yourself into any of the categories, figure out what you want and find a group that suits your goals.

If you've found The Balance Discord, I'd take a look at the server listings there for your data center's raiding discord.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

There are no clear definitions and they can refer to either mindset or schedule. You can't really bring in definitions across games because each game and their community is different so the definitions are also different. It's best if you just find a group that fits your own circumstances and goals. You can have a groups with casual schedule and hardcore mindset, or the other way around. Generally the loose definitions tend to be as follows:

Mindset:
-Casual: We just play for fun. It's nice if we clear.
-Midcore: We want to clear before the next raid tier comes out.
-Hardcore: We want to clear as soon as possible.

Schedule:
-Casual: 2 days a week or less. Less than 3 hours a day.
-Midcore: 3 days a week. 3 hours a day.
-Hardcore: 4-7 days a week. 3-24 hours a day.

One particular aspect about schedules that muddies the definitions is that you can have a group that raids everyday until they clear a fight, but after that only farms the weekly reclears for like 2 hours once a week.

Generally you just want to figure out 3 things and ask these questions from the groups you apply to as well:
-What is your mindset?
-What is kind of schedule fits you?
-What do you want to do after your group clears?

Rather than trying put yourself into any of the categories, figure out what you want and find a group that suits your goals.

If you've found The Balance Discord, I'd take a look at the server listings there for your data center's raiding discord.

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I think this is a really good definition of what groups likely mean when they say “casual”, “midcore”, or “hardcore”.

In addition, I want to mention other goals a group may have that might fall into one mindset or another.

Casual: the group likely doesn’t care about optimization or damage; just wants to clear, and doesn’t mind if it takes a while to do so
Midcore: the group likely cares about relatively speedy clears (perhaps clearing Savage before the next patch comes out); may care about their damage/parsing, but not to the point of min-maxing or uber optimization
Hardcore: cares about clearing as fast as possible (i.e., Week 1/2 kills), and cares about optimization/min-maxing; may also care about speedkilling

Obviously, you can also put in a semi-hardcore somewhere between midcore and hardcore, where a group may care about killing the fights fast, but may not care too much about going back for parse runs, optimization, or speedkilling.


Then there’s also whether or not a group plans on doing Ultimate. More “casual” groups may poke at it for fun, not really caring if they clear or not, or even get very far in the fight; while midcore and hardcore groups will likely want to go in for a clear or multiple clears or even optimization (definitely hardcore mentality on this last one).


I think the definition goes far deeper than simply how many hours a group meets a week. I’ve known groups with a very casual mindset that raided 3~4 days a week. And I have heard of people doing “weekend statics” where they raid as many hours as they can to try and get in as much progress as possible.

Trying to define causal, midcore, and hardcore is an exercise in futility honestly as people have different definitions. Some base it on difficulty of content cleared. Some base it on time played. If it's the former, I'm mostly a casual player. I do ex trials but couldn't care less about savages and ultimate because I don't want to structure my schedule and life around a game. If it's the latter, I'd be midcore to hardcore because I play this game a LOT on my own time and it's mostly the only game I play right now.

But frankly I find the whole casual vs hardcore thing stupid. Just a way for people to be nasty and condescending to each other (filthy casuals vs toxic elitists). Theres plenty in this game to satisfy all types.

I raid 2 days a week, 2 hrs per night with my guild. We cleared everything except Ultimates, which we havent even tried yet.
On these boards, I have been called hardcore when advocating for content that fits this kind of raiding (ie savage level content that doesnt require a ton of time investment for preparation, where skill/focus is more important than rote repetitive training/timesink).
I think the majority of the community on these boards use the term "casual" to mean "low playskill and no interest in changing that" , but dont want to actually say that. Otherwise, I am as casual as it gets.

I used to be hardcore in other games. 3-4 raids a week depending on what was clear, keep everything raid-relevant up to level ASAP. Still doable with full-time work, but then its your main hobby pretty much, so I scaled back.

And even that is not top 1%.

I think there is a seriously warped perception of how many people can clear E4S. Its quite a lot. Its just in the interest of some players to talk that number down, in order to bash a playstyle they arent capable of.

It's not that the definitions are warped, it's that there are no agreed-upon definitions. It doesn't help that most people seem to use casual as a pejorative.

Hardcore players are elitists who drink mountaindew and eat red doritos because they are so hardcore with everything and think they are better than us casual coca cola drinkers.

Tbh, pretty much everything is warped here.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Hardcore players are elitists who drink mountaindew and eat red doritos because they are so hardcore with everything and think they are better than us casual coca cola drinkers.

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Hardcores drink scotch. Casuals, soda pop. (kudos if you get the reference)

While there arent many, there are 'soft statics' (I guess thats what Id call them). It's mainly a loose conglomeration of players in a linkshell that raid a few times a week to clear the tier eventually. The difference? There's no set raid schedule. It's literally "We'll raid when we feel like it and take whoever is around to go and pug the rest". The model works so long as you have a small dedicated core group (3-5 players) who go fairly consistently in the week AND that they dont take it so seriously. If people clear ahead of other people, thats fine. Might mean people get less loot or might mean they pug different people. But it's a lot less stressful than youre typical '9 to 5, 5 days a week' static.

Before I begin, I think Kitfox's explanation is 10/10 and perfect way of saying it.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

So I'm looking to get into some group stuff in this game...

And I'm looking at assorted recruiting ads on places like the Balance and getting way baffled...

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You're baffled because it's a different game with way different people. This is understandable. But you have to understand we have far different playstyles than say a WOW group and the way raids work are much different as well, from my understanding (Sorry, I've never set foot for one second in WoW. I don't like Blizz's games personally, nothing against them as a company). So people tackle them differently. I think a lot of people might point to the Japanese community and how a lot of players started seeing what they were doing and echoing it.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Midcore doesn't exist.

Hardcore exists only if you're on the bleeding edge of content, are willing and able to put in the hours and time, and can a server "medal" clear (so first 3 clears on server). You don't have a schedule, the group merely collectively decides when to sleep.

Casual is everyone else that enters Savage.

If you don't enter Savage, you're not even on the list.

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This is a very toxic mindset. midcore does exist and those that say stuff like this just say it to disqualify anyone who isn't hardcore as "just a casual". The problem is that that's absolutely not true. A casual static is there to have fun and doesn't care if they clear, but it's cool if they do and don't really feel invested in savage but the people they play with. Hardcore spends hours, if not days, from the beginning of the patch taking time off from work and as long as their team works good together they will race to see who gets first, not only that but they dedicate hours into the Ultimate raids. Midcore is somewhere inbetween. It's like the difficulty selection in games like Bayonetta or other games by Platinum or studios similar. They have the one where it's super easy and relaxed for people who aren't too invested in games of the genre, those who want to be challenged somewhat but don't find fun in bashing their head against a wall for hours on end, and those that find the fun in the challenge alone and don't care about anything else. Saying the ones in the middle don't exist is a toxic mentality.

To me it's:

Casual: We don't care about savage content/we dont mind clearing savage content eventually

Midcore: We care about savage content, we will try periodically to clear it, atleast before the next set of savage content

Hardcore: We care a lot about savage content, it must be cleared and put on farm ASAP, with consistency.

It is a bit of a vague catagorisation, and there isn't one dictionary definition for any of them. They way i see it is...

Casual - Low to mid skill players, usually 1-2 days a week for 1-3 hours a day.
Midcore - Mid to mid-high skill players, usually 2-3 days a week, 2-4 hours a day.
Semi-Hardcore - High skilled players that do not have the time for full on hardcore raiding. Usually 3-5 days a week, 3-6 hours a day.
Hardcore - Pretty much 12+ hours a day, every day, and then usually goes on hiatus right after cleared the current content a few times over.

Obviously, not every group comes under that umbrella of definitions, and some fit it to a T but don't fit. At the end of the day, when looking for a group, its best to talk to the recruiter and get a general idea of the groups attitude towards content and vice versa - If you join them, they're going to be people you play with regularly, so don't just look at the ad and immediately assume it is or isn't for you, talk to them first, it can't hurt if you have questions or if they have some for you.

Hardcore and Casual just refer to the amount of time per week someone plays the game. It doesn't have any real bearing on player skill or the content they do. You're going to find casual players that put in a low amount of time in game per week that have a skill level that makes a noticeable amount of your "hardcore" players look noobish by comparison. These are usually the people with the ability to actively think and adapt quickly and easily to new things and unexpected situations and as such aren't really reliant on repetition into muscle memory in order to clear upper tier content. I've seen numerous times where a wipe occurred simply because the tank turned or positioned in a different area than usual and watched as over half the party appeared to be on brain auto pilot standing in the AoE because they didn't adjust their position based on the tank.

Hardcore players use light tubes and exploding barbed wire.

I'm a softcore player, no nudity but still fairly obscene.

I am in the camp that casual, mid core, hardcore applies to only the time spent in game. Skilled/Unskilled involves if the player can do a rotation or not.

I would say casuals play between 1 and 20hrs a week. Typically only play when their rl allows. This is FFXIV's primary audience.
Midcore is 21-35hrs a week. (Good part of the community. This is your typical raid 3-4 nights a week group)
Hardcore is 35+ (Usually people do this when an expansion hits, then they quickly drop out of this tier)

No Life/Very Hardcore 60+hrs a week (This game probably does not attract many of this group)

You can be playing the game hardcore and not doing savage/ultimate content.


You can be in a group that 1 shots savage and ultimate once they learn it and play 5hrs a week (Like alot of ppl do). This is playing ffxiv extremely casually. Honestly I feel a large majority of the best players in ffxiv actually play the game extremely casually once the content is mastered, due to them having nothing else to progress/do.



When I recruit for a guild or group in any mmo, the question of how hardcore you are always involves playtime and time willing to put into the game. Skill and background is always another question entirely.

These definitions are obviously going to be super fluid but in practice, a casual raid group will usually meet once (potentially twice) a week for 2-3 hours. Anything more than that would be midcore. Hardcore are generally groups that will put a lot of hours in to clear content asap, week 1/2 clears for savage are a good measuring stick. After those initial weeks, hardcore groups could raid as little as 1h a week depending on how fast they reclear and if they have any interest in other content.

Does a definition even matter?

Just join a group with a schedule you like best and fits in with your lifestyle, and worry about silly classifications later.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Hardcore players use light tubes and exploding barbed wire.

I'm a softcore player, no nudity but still fairly obscene.

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Casuals use a feather, hardcore uses the whole chicken.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

So I'm looking to get into some group stuff in this game...

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Just find a group whose skills and schedule is ok for you and that's all, whatever they flag themselves as.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

I am in the camp that casual, mid core, hardcore applies to only the time spent in game. Skilled/Unskilled involves if the player can do a rotation or not.

I would say casuals play between 1 and 20hrs a week. Typically only play when their rl allows. This is FFXIV's primary audience.
Midcore is 21-35hrs a week. (Good part of the community. This is your typical raid 3-4 nights a week group)
Hardcore is 35+ (Usually people do this when an expansion hits, then they quickly drop out of this tier)

No Life/Very Hardcore 60+hrs a week (This game probably does not attract many of this group)

You can be playing the game hardcore and not doing savage/ultimate content.


You can be in a group that 1 shots savage and ultimate once they learn it and play 5hrs a week (Like alot of ppl do). This is playing ffxiv extremely casually. Honestly I feel a large majority of the best players in ffxiv actually play the game extremely casually once the content is mastered, due to them having nothing else to progress/do.



When I recruit for a guild or group in any mmo, the question of how hardcore you are always involves playtime and time willing to put into the game. Skill and background is always another question entirely.

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Basically this. You find a group that fits with you. My group goes hard for the first 3 weeks of an expac or tier drop then we drop down to midcore and do maybe 2h 2 or 3 times a week if that.

At least from my understanding, whatever core you are really has nothing to do with how many hours you put in but rather what content you are doing.

Preach from WoW explained it pretty well. He's considered a hardcore raider, despite the fact that at one point he was only logging into the game for like 6 hours per week, 3 hours of raiding on like Friday and Saturday or some such.

I'd think the same would apply to XIV.