More 'solo' dungeons from 60-70 please

I've been playing FXIV since 1.0 was in beta (so 10 years almost) and joined the forums a couple of years later. During that period I've seen a distinct deterioration in the way the community treats its members, a deterioration that's reflected in-game and on the forums. I was very lucky to arrive with a group of gaming friends and to make a few more along the way, but that kind of bond building is becoming less and less common. I'd love for this to change, but I have pretty much lost hope if I'm honest.

I am currently trying to level all my jobs to 80 because I want the Amaro mount. Also because it's fun to try new skill sets and so on. But I have reached the stage where I won't do dungeons with people I don't know because it's too stressful and annoying. Someone berates the tank for not pulling enough or pulling too much, the healer for DPSing too much or not DPSing, the DPS for not AOEing. I get it, people have different expectations. But it's stressful and unenjoyable. I will do dungeons with friends but not otherwise.

I enjoy running with my Squadron though, I really do. And the Trusts are marvellous. I run at least two dungeons a day with either method. I can focus on learning my job and improving, learning the dungeon, learning the bosses. It's great. I am not a good tank and, frankly, I'm a terrible DPS. It also takes me a long time to develop the muscle memory to play a specific job to even an average level and to know a scripted fight well. This is because a.) I'm old, and b.) I have directional dyslexia (yes this is actually a thing and it's very disabling IRL as well as in game)

So it would be fantastic for me - and others I'm sure, who have anxiety about performance, don't want to deal with unpleasant people, want time and space to learn without holding others back - to have more options to run dungeons with squadrons or Trusts. Just a couple of dungeons from 60-70 would be amazing.

TLDR: yes, it's an MMO but group content is now so unpleasant/ stressful to run without a premade group, it would be great to have a couple more 'solo' dungeons from 60-70

71+ you have the trust system as an option to "solo lvl".

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

71+ you have the trust system as an option to "solo lvl".

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Yes, I am aware, and the Trust system is great. But I am talking about 60-70 where there is nothing. Except spamming the Vault with my squadron over and over. This is how I got my DRK to level 71, and it wasn't great (though still infinitely preferable to facing the boss that is DF Extreme)

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Originally Posted by Elladie

Yes, I am aware, and the Trust system is great. But I am talking about 60-70 where there is nothing. Except spamming the Vault with my squadron over and over. This is how I got my DRK to level 71, and it wasn't great (though still infinitely preferable to facing the boss that is DF Extreme)

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I replied before your edit. 60-70 can be achieved with beast tribes a bit slowly but its 6 allowances a day, plus there's also FATEs. I don't disagree that something like Trusts in 60-70 would likely work great. But I am throwing options on the table to assuage the issue as it stands

It is a tough situation because you aren't wrong, mostly everyone has the expectation of tanks MUST always full everything, and healers MUST always try to be a green dps ect.

I mean hell I'll just take two seconds to type big or small pulls to see what the healers comfortable with and either the healer themselves or a dps gets bitchy because I dared to ask which takes just seconds to do.

So I kinda agree the option would be nice to at the most make squadrons updated for it, add a new title or glam item for getting at least 4 members to lv70 to.

Some people will complain how they see soloing as dumb in a mmo, but when it's the people in a mmo getting more and more mean I think it's justified. There's a reason I don't do savage or ex's anymore and it's not cause I hate a nice challenging fight lol.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

I replied before your edit. 60-70 can be achieved with beast tribes a bit slowly but its 6 allowances a day, plus there's also FATEs. I don't disagree that something like Trusts in 60-70 would likely work great. But I am throwing options on the table to assuage the issue as it stands

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Beast tribes are great, I do those too as well as FATEs and my challenge log. But those options aren't so optimal for learning the job and how it plays.

There is a thread but a few entries down where posters are complaining about tanks who get into Holminster and don't know how to play.
These posters may not berate the tank in their party at the time, but the tank knows that posts like this appear daily on the forums and so any slight error will be very stressful and uncomfortable for them. I've a friend who has all tanks at 80 - he is an amazing tank - but like me he'll only run dungeons with friends now. Mainly because of threads like the one I've mentioned. My friend has enough RL stress, he doesn't need it in game too.

Dungeons are more demanding solo-play and therefore benefit the community too as a learning tool

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Originally Posted by Elladie

I am currently trying to level all my jobs to 80 because I want the Amaro mount. Also because it's fun to try new skill sets and so on. But I have reached the stage where I won't do dungeons with people I don't know because it's too stressful and annoying. Someone berates the tank for not pulling enough or pulling too much, the healer for DPSing too much or not DPSing, the DPS for not AOEing. I get it, people have different expectations. But it's stressful and unenjoyable. I will do dungeons with friends but not otherwise.

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I think this is just part of living in a world with other people.
I don't think anything has changed from 9 years ago compared to now. It just sounds like you prefer the solo experience.

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Originally Posted by Elladie

There is a thread but a few entries down where posters are complaining about tanks who get into Holminster and don't know how to play.
These posters may not berate the tank in their party at the time, but the tank knows that posts like this appear daily on the forums and so any slight error will be very stressful and uncomfortable for them. I've a friend who has all tanks at 80 - he is an amazing tank - but like me he'll only run dungeons with friends now. Mainly because of threads like the one I've mentioned. My friend has enough RL stress, he doesn't need it in game too.

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I mean, I get where you come from and all but then why ask for a more optimal experience when the venues which are available are really optimal. The internet has always had sections like the ones you mentioned, and being "stressed" over what someone in an online forum will say about you really speaks more about you than them. Just like their opinions about you speak more about them than you.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

I mean, I get where you come from and all but then why ask for a more optimal experience when the venues which are available are really optimal. The internet has always had sections like the ones you mentioned, and being "stressed" over what someone in an online forum will say about you really speaks more about you than them. Just like their opinions about you speak more about them than you.

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But the venues aren't optimal. If they were, I wouldn't be asking for a couple of alternatives. I don't want to inflict my PLD on a party but I would like to learn to play my PLD as well as I can. This is a couple of level appropriate dungeons from 60-70 that I can do with my Squadron so that I don't have to spam the Vault. Beast tribes etc are not optimal for learning a job, I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

I'm not being rude or demanding anything, I'm asking politely if SE would please consider this. I know there are a number of people who would also like this just from reading the forums regularly

Do you get xp from soloing heaven on high?

I think OP's suggestion is a good one since there is currently a gap between squadrons and trusts.

In the mean time if DF doesn't do it for you and your friends are offline, you might be able to get a bit more control of your party by using PF.

And of course the old school methods of leveling still work from 60-70: beast tribe quests, leves, fates, daily hunts, challenge log, sidequests, etc.. Combining all of the above (and anything else you can think of) is probably the most effective way to level.

Another trick is that PvP roulette allows you to queue on one job but switch to another for the actual match. MSQ roulette is tedious but not difficult to tank. If you queue for Alliance Raid roulette with someone lv59 or below then you are guaranteed crystal tower which is also easy to tank but gives great xp.

My expectation is that they were going to add more squadron content anyway but they always have a huge backlog of higher priority things to implement. Decent chance that something like doma castle will show up on the squad list eventually.

Fates should be fine for solo leveling, especially with a chocobo companion. I actually prefer fates over squadron dungeon runs or trusts.

Love the idea. Then you can learn a class in a real group setting without getting shit because you aren't 100% perfect.

And just adding to other suggestions here, don't forget HoH. You don't really need more than your basic rotation if that there since the idea is to use fast attacks to melt things quickly. I'm doing the everything to 80 run myself now and just spamming HoH on classes I'm shaky on.

Huh, thought I had an account on here already. Guess not.

To add to the OP's comments. I really want to try out various dungeons and roles but without a pre-made group to allow me to go at my own pace it means I don't feel comfortable exploring roles. The Squadron missions and Trust dungeons allow me to get a good feel for a role and it's mechanics as well as a dungeon so that when I do PUG it, I feel confident that I won't be absolutely terrible in the role. With most of my friends preferring to play F2P games I don't have many people here that I feel comfortable messing up in front of.

It's not about preferring a solo experience. It's about giving people more tools to access duties and be confident in the roles/dungeons they are participating in.

I disagree about the community getting worse (in my experience it was pure trash before while now it's actually a nice community), but I agree about wanting squadrons to go up to 70 (Trusts going lower is not gonna happen because the dungeon has to be designed with them in mind, for them to work at all). The gap is really felt.

Stop turning the game into a single player game. What is wrong with you people

I know quite a few people feel this way about running dungeons, and they've all got a similar of background. Normally, they run their dungeons with FC friends or stick to one Expert a day, and then try not to engage with the playerbase anywhere else except for maybe PVP. They're all huge fans of the Trust system, and they would like every dungeon and normal mode trial to eventually implement them. Some of them do Extremes/Savage, but only ever with their FC/LS.

My theory is that the people like this, have sort of self-conditioned themselves to feel that all interactions that aren't overtly positive are negative. From my own experience of running the DF for dungeons almost everyday on 2~3 characters across different DCs, what I've noticed is that most dungeon runs are neutral interaction. Largely quiet, greetings are more common than not, and any conversation generally trends towards either being completely silly unrelated to the game or about a problem that has occurred in running the dungeon, perceived or actual.

Conversation about perceived problems is more common than silly talk. It's usually a stressor. What I try to do, is I try to teach people that their perception is wrong. Eloquence doesn't really pay off, so I'm curt. Can lead a horse to water, can't make him drink etc. Example from today: I was doing Leveling Roulette on my Level 72 MCH. I got Aurum Vale with a sapling GNB, sapling SMN, and a WHM. There were one word hellos. The GNB did the first room somewhat strange, but he took it at a pace that the WHM kept up with. The WHM was French. We ran silent until after the second boss, whereupon, the LB was ripe for use, the GNB pulled 6+ mobs, and so I blasted them with it. The SMN, a pull or two later exclaimed, "U used the LB Y!?? U only suposed to use it on big guys, not little trash!" I explained that it's better to use it on a large group, than on a boss, especially with two ranged. They did not respond, and no more conversation until GG from the GNB at the end. All in all, actually a really pleasant Aurum Vale. No wipes, occasionally the WHM stopped moving for a minute or so after each boss. Not the best run ever, but certainly not bad.

I can't blame you for not wanting to play with others, especially if you're not getting interactions you like out of it, but the point I want to make is that if you abstain from it on a perceived notion that you've developed and fostered by the very act of shunning other players in the first place... well it's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy. I realize this sounds harsh, and I don't mean for it to be an attack. Just know that I, as well as others, really rather disdain the ideas of Trusts and solo dungeons. The more people become insular and refuse to play with one another, the worse it will feel to play with others, and then to go a step further and foster a friendship. This proceeding from a dungeon is exceedingly rare, but I'd rather that its rarity did not increase.

I play content with players all the time. I prefer it that way so don't accuse me of being one of those solo players.

However I do use trusts and squadrons often as well when I'm leveling up jobs I don't actually like playing. I don't know how to play those jobs nor do I ever care to learn, so I play them with npcs instead of players. That way I won't get yelled at for (legitimately) playing badly as I hold the group back.

Melee dps for example. I don't like positionals and refuse to do them. Npcs don't care about that.

I to would like if more squadron content was added for the gap between 60 and 70. I've been using Heaven on High since playing well in there doesn't matter, but I'd prefer to be able to run other things as well.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

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You're quite seeing things that aren't there.

Wanting solo dungeons doesn't mean you don't do group content/don't wanna do it/are scared of it. That's quite in your head, so I'd like you to abstain from that notion. Especially when you're trying to play some kind of therapist.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

You're quite seeing things that aren't there.

Wanting solo dungeons doesn't mean you don't do group content/don't wanna do it/are scared of it. That's quite in your head, so I'd like you to abstain from that notion. Especially when you're trying to play some kind of therapist.

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How about you abstain from trying to tell me what to think or say? Read the OP. This thread is specifically centered around people not wanting to play in groups, so in this context wanting solo dungeons is exactly what that means. Also I ain't trying to play therapist. Just trying to get people to reconsider their views and ideas on group play, since group play being undesirable was the reason for the thread.

People would rather the world change for them, than change themselves for the betterment of the world.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

How about you abstain from trying to tell me what to think or say? Read the OP. This thread is specifically centered around people not wanting to play in groups, so in this context wanting solo dungeons is exactly what that means. Also I ain't trying to play therapist. Just trying to get people to reconsider their views and ideas on group play, since group play being undesirable was the reason for the thread.

People would rather the world change for them, than change themselves for the betterment of the world.

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If you would care to go back and reread my OP, you may notice I've been playing this game for a very long time and have been active in group play for a lot of that period. I'm not indulging in some psychologically self-fulfilling self sabotage here. Group play in this game has become largely unenjoyable: there is very little interaction - to the point where I might as well be playing with NPCs anyway - and the only time there is any conversation its criticism of someone else in the group because X isn't doing stuff the way Y wants. I can remember precisely ONE duty finder run in eight years - Cutter's Cry - that was fun because folk laughed and chatted and helped teach the fights.

I don't need your guidance on my mental health in this situation, and you would be putting your 'skills' to better use persuading the vast majority of the player base the dungeons would be much more pleasurable for everyone if they engaged with their team and didn't start behaving like dicks if something went wrong.

In the meantime, Yoshida San, please can we have a couple more dungeons between 60-70 to run with our Squadron, just for varieties sake and so we can learn to play the job or role without having to jump into the toxic pool that many DF runs have become

Not to be rude but it just seems like you need a FC or a core group of friends to roulette run with..

My partner an I have been playing together for a good bit, being tank an healer.. so we get to set the pace based on how the other is feeling. If he wants small pulls ill do it.. if he doesn't care ill pull as much as I wasnt(I actually prefer small pulls.. more relaxing an let's me use skills besides cool downs and aoes)

But anyways, find yourself a chill group that will compliment the way you wanna play.. voice chat on ps4 or discord.. have a laugh an relax.. your playing a game for fun not to be further stressed out by life. <3

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Originally Posted by Elladie

If you would care to go back and reread my OP, you may notice I've been playing this game for a very long time and have been active in group play for a lot of that period. I'm not indulging in some psychologically self-fulfilling self sabotage here. Group play in this game has become largely unenjoyable: there is very little interaction - to the point where I might as well be playing with NPCs anyway - and the only time there is any conversation its criticism of someone else in the group because X isn't doing stuff the way Y wants. I can remember precisely ONE duty finder run in eight years - Cutter's Cry - that was fun because folk laughed and chatted and helped teach the fights.

I don't need your guidance on my mental health in this situation, and you would be putting your 'skills' to better use persuading the vast majority of the player base the dungeons would be much more pleasurable for everyone if they engaged with their team and didn't start behaving like dicks if something went wrong.

In the meantime, Yoshida San, please can we have a couple more dungeons between 60-70 to run with our Squadron, just for varieties sake and so we can learn to play the job or role without having to jump into the toxic pool that many DF runs have become

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I read it twice before I ever posted, thanks. Just because you've played a long time doesn't mean you've engaged with the playerbase on a regular basis. If you can only remember one run of dungeons where you had fun with strangers in the last 8 years, then you truly haven't been engaging. Which is ok, as I said before, most dungeon runs are neutral. Most people don't engage. This stems not from people in general being crappy, but the perception that people you don't know will be crappy. The situation is not helped by actively abstaining from it, and asking for other ways to continue abstaining from it will also never remedy the situation. Be the change you want to see in the world.

As for trying to persuade you versus persuading the vast majority of the playerbase... I am only one man. It's quite a bit easier to address people one at a time, as I have no wide societal influence. So that is what I'm doing, one person, one thread at a time. Of course, it's not really an active passion, and it's also an issue that everyone generally agrees on. Players could stand to be more friendly and communicate more. It's just, no one sees themselves as part of the problem.

I gotta side with the Op, even it its not THAT bad he has his points.... it feels things are a lot more stressed and harsh nowadays. I barely get to talk to ppl during stuff, or even just after it. Its close to impossible to wait even 1 min for a pull to explain stuff...

That other day i got into a Eden 5 run... Bonus. Ok fine, idm at all. Me and another player tell about gettin an orb and spreading the clouds. The new player still died a few times, but well, he's new so its fine. While waiting for the Aoe to go off as i was tank and could not do stuff meanwhile i typed "gotta aprreciate the great music here". Shortly after it a heal died due barely not making it out of the aoe and said "sorry" or smt. Some random jerk then commented with "less talk more attack!"
He started to argue we suck and do badly and even got backed up by his friend/fc mate...

Five lines, 2 of em to explain the newbie, basically 0 deaths from other players besides the newbie, yet we were not good enough >_>

Sometimes, not always but sometimes, the toxic mess that is DF/PF really kills the fun. Its not about "i wanna play alone" but about "i dont wanna play with jerks who insult you over ever little bs or dont care shi# about anyhting and let you carry their butts."

Daily hunt bills from kugane/Rhalgr's Reach are a good way of getting exp from 60 to 70, not as effective as roulettes but their still pretty good for the solo lvln experience, plus you get some girl and seals.

I haven't experienced the community getting worse. (Not saying other people are lying. We all have different experiences and a different way of viewing things) I been learning and leveling my tanks (very fun, I love tanking the most now) I have a macro that says something like "Hiya hiya. New to tanking and learning. If I pull to much or to little just let me know. Any tanking tips/advice please feel free to let me know! Thank you ^.^ " haven't gotten a complaint yet. Gotten some advice and been told to pull more. I find as long as you talk to the group and let people know you are learning, they are forgiving if you make a mistake.