Monstrosity: Players playing as monsters system.

There was an old thread which talked about this created in 2015. I decided to make a new one instead of bumping one of the last decade;).

For those who do not know about Monstrosity, here is it is
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Monstrosity
The FFXI team really did drop the ball on this system as the article above states. Despite the pouring support from the community, the FFXI team still decided to quit updating this system, despite promising & advertising more updates in the past.

I can't help but wonder if this system will make another appearance. It may be in the form of a job? Could be in the form of herding? Overall, the system was good, just poorly managed by the 11 crew.

I liked Tera Online PvP mode where you control a Boss versus the players. I Think a PvP mode like that would be really fun! I liked the one where we did bet between 2 Bosses, then they fight and the winners win the bet. Maybe FFxiv could do something with this.

It's pretty obvious SE won't implement that because of ethical reasons.

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Originally Posted by TitanMen

It's pretty obvious SE won't implement that because of ethical reasons.

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Damn PETA

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

There was an old thread which talked about this created in 2015. I decided to make a new one instead of bumping one of the last decade;).

For those who do not know about Monstrosity, here is it is
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Monstrosity
The FFXI team really did drop the ball on this system as the article above states. Despite the pouring support from the community, the FFXI team still decided to quit updating this system, despite promising & advertising more updates in the past.

I can't help but wonder if this system will make another appearance. It may be in the form of a job? Could be in the form of herding? Overall, the system was good, just poorly managed by the 11 crew.

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Monstrosity was one of my favorite parts of my brief adventures trying out FF11. But while I'd like to see it a lot, I have my doubts it would work very well in FF14. In FF11, you do almost all your leveling out in the overworld. So overworld fights are harder, and it's easy to plug in something new, like monstrosity, that uses that same foundation.

FF14 just doesn't do much with combat in the overworld. Now, granted, BLU is a thing, but I don't think monstrosity would be nearly as fun with the push over mobs that you're not even trying to learn a move from. Nonetheless, if the dev team can come up with a way to make it work, and not leave it abandon's and semi-half-@$$'d like the 11 incarnation, then I would love to see it.

But if you want to see it in the form of a job... well, depending on how loosely you interpret that, BLU is already here. Still, I agree with you overall... there's a lot of potential in the system.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

and not leave it abandon's and semi-half-@$$'d like the 11 incarnation, then I would love to see it.

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FFXIV actually half-ass and abandon most of its content, though :|
FFXI was just bad timing since they decided to go in LTS mode some months after the release of monstrosity (and the decision for FFXI to shrink the devs team was maybe just FFXIV siphoning ppl from other projects, including the creator of monstrosity who is credited in HW or SB)

But yeah, the best thing FFXIV could do is playing as a boss since it's the only thing in the game with actual work ; open world is useless, including monsters. And we've learnt to limit our expectations for the devs as soon as it goes outside the regular update treadmill (I can already see our question-dodging-champion "But it's impossible to play as a boss, we'd have to re-create all the abilities for balance!!!")

I don't think such a feature could actually work in XIV's overworld, but having it as a separate goofy gameplay mode with its own zones/arenas could be amusing.

LotRO had monster PvP, though it was unfortunately sidelined, as you could only do it in a special PvP zone.

And that's the problem. It's side content you have to consciously think about to remember that it exists.

Ideally, it'd be cool to be able to roll a monster character with a single life that levels up quickly. Player monsters are level scaled to the zone they are in. You're going to die, but it's cool because you have a wide array of monsters to pick from and it's quick content. You could incentivize people to do it by allowing them unlock minions or costumes for their player adventurer characters.

It's fortunate that death in FFXIV is only a twenty second inconvenience, so allowing PvP in the world between player adventurers and player monsters wouldn't be too bad. Could also set it so that once a player adventurer is killed by a monster, the player can't be targeted by player monsters for five or ten minutes.

The problem is that FFXIV's world simply isn't suited to that type of gameplay. I rarely ever see people out in the world. FATEs after level 16 aren't anywhere near as EXP efficient as simply queuing for dungeon roulettes or PotD. If you're a monster and manage to find one of the few gatherers out in the world... combat doesn't really work because you can't change jobs during combat, and munching on players who can't fight back at all isn't challenging PvP. People do their beast tribe dailies in about five to ten minutes, all the while flying to their destinations. You're really only ever going to find players on the ground if they're doing the MSQ. Post ARR zones are also huge, so it's hard to find players on foot. If there was monster PvP implemented in the world, you'd probably find most combat taking place in ARR zones.

Actually there is something like that already in the game, on both palace of the dead and heavens on high you can use certain pomanders to become certain monsters for a limited time.

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Originally Posted by shao32

Actually there is something like that already in the game, on both palace of the dead and heavens on high you can use certain pomanders to become certain monsters for a limited time.

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Yes, that's totally the FFXIV spirit. We're talking about a system with hundred of playable monsters, no time limit, in the open areas, with their original abilities, a customisation subsystem ; but indeed it's already in FFXIV : a gimmick item in 2 dungeons for 1 minute of cosplay with 1 ability.

If they did this I felt like it would just be a new limited job, an expansion of BLU or some kind of experiment like Diadem/Eureka. It's a bit too complex to be a gold saucer mini-game. It checks a lot of the "limited job" boxes though. Optional, mini-game like systems that reuse old content but don't affect current content.

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Originally Posted by Genz

Yes, that's totally the FFXIV spirit. We're talking about a system with hundred of playable monsters, no time limit, in the open areas, with their original abilities, a customisation subsystem ; but indeed it's already in FFXIV : a gimmick item in 2 dungeons for 1 minute of cosplay with 1 ability.

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Yeah it would be nice if they expand it more, becoming a sucubus is a lot of fun on palace, an area where you can become a plenty variety of monsters could be nice.

FFXI has all the cool stuff. Kinda weird how a game that came out in 2002 has less limitations than one that came out in 2010.

I rather like the idea of turning into a Morbol and making people i don't like smell my morning breath.

It could be a great idea, I'd love to see that :)

This is were this idea came to me, from Palace of the Dead. I got Monstrosity vibes as soon as I transform into a character. Wonder why they stopped at the Manticore & the Morrigan thing?

It does not have to be full on FFXI Monstrosity. They could add onto Palace of the Dead or something like that. Like adding more transformations and expanding the content. If it was like monstrosity, that would be great.

It is in the game already, they just need a kick to add a little more. With how the FFXI team handled this system, it is like FFXIV prior to A Realm Reborn. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and should never be spoken of. The last impression is the one you remember. Many people remember the FFXI team completely abandoning this system. So they recall half-effort incomplete side content.

Doesn't seem like there's anything interesting you could actually do with monsters though. They're not gonna let you run around the open world griefing other players.

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Originally Posted by TwiibieTwuu

FFXI has all the cool stuff. Kinda weird how a game that came out in 2002 has less limitations than one that came out in 2010.

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I've often found it disappointing that there's so little 'alteration' items to be found in this game. I miss the shape-shifting element of demon hunters, druids and worgen from World of Warcraft as well as the various appearance changing items present as toys/potions.

It has always struck me as odd that FFXIV seems to have such an aversion to those sort of things.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I don't think such a feature could actually work in XIV's overworld, but having it as a separate goofy gameplay mode with its own zones/arenas could be amusing.

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Would be nice in Eureka

It could be a fun pvp mode 8 monster types and each fill a different role and have a rock,paper, scissors weakness system

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

This is were this idea came to me, from Palace of the Dead. I got Monstrosity vibes as soon as I transform into a character. Wonder why they stopped at the Manticore & the Morrigan thing?

It does not have to be full on FFXI Monstrosity. They could add onto Palace of the Dead or something like that. Like adding more transformations and expanding the content. If it was like monstrosity, that would be great.

It is in the game already, they just need a kick to add a little more. With how the FFXI team handled this system, it is like FFXIV prior to A Realm Reborn. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and should never be spoken of. The last impression is the one you remember. Many people remember the FFXI team completely abandoning this system. So they recall half-effort incomplete side content.

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They didn't really stop. While the deep dungeons only have 3 transformation pomanders (Rage (Manticore), Lust (Succubus) and Resolution (Kuribu)), they did add the Rival Wings PvP mode in StB where you get to "ride" (aka transform into) Oppressor (A1), Cruise Chaser (A11) and Brute Justice (A8) and all of those MSQ quests where you play as another character. They haven't dropped the mechanic and likely plan to do even more with it in future patches.

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Originally Posted by Ardox

Would be nice in Eureka

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Yeah, people didn't hate that enough already as is...

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

They didn't really stop. While the deep dungeons only have 3 transformation pomanders (Rage (Manticore), Lust (Succubus) and Resolution (Kuribu)), they did add the Rival Wings PvP mode in StB where you get to "ride" (aka transform into) Oppressor (A1), Cruise Chaser (A11) and Brute Justice (A8) and all of those MSQ quests where you play as another character. They haven't dropped the mechanic and likely plan to do even more with it in future patches.

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Ah, interesting. I do not play PvP, so I did not know about this. I feel this is the way they may go instead of implementing Monstrosity. It was a colossal failure in XI, due to how the devs handled it. As much as I want to see it, I am gonna be realistic.

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Originally Posted by Genz

Yes, that's totally the FFXIV spirit. We're talking about a system with hundred of playable monsters, no time limit, in the open areas, with their original abilities, a customisation subsystem ; but indeed it's already in FFXIV : a gimmick item in 2 dungeons for 1 minute of cosplay with 1 ability.

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Don't worry, PotD also provides any and all midcore content anyone could ever imagine, be it in the form of a raid, dungeon, exploratory side-content, or anything not yet categorized. - XIV forums

If I was playing a raid boss level monster, I'd just ignore the tank, stomp the healers first, finish off the DPS, then the tank.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

If I was playing a raid boss level monster, I'd just ignore the tank, stomp the healers first, finish off the DPS, then the tank.

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I think for the sake of preventing that they'd probably make it so Provoke forces the monster to keep the tank targeted or some such so only indirect attacks like AoEs could be used to threaten the squishy players while they're alive.

Which would still be way more troublesome then dealing with an AI-controlled monster.

There was a game series called Arc the Lad from back in old playstation 1 days that allowed you to control monsters as optional party members, and even had a separate disc where you could send them to the arena to do battle.

I think it would be pretty fun where we can capture monsters, and directly control them with other Party members in a arena setting. Basically me being a Cactaur, and this other guy with me using some Drake Monster for AOE effects. You can level up these monsters through repeated battles in the arena, and have them gain new abilities.

If the Devs do consider this then this would be a good time to introduce Beastmaster as a limited job into the world of FFXIV so you can tame monsters. They already have a good setup going on with the newly added BLU arena, so they can use that to their advantage.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I think for the sake of preventing that they'd probably make it so Provoke forces the monster to keep the tank targeted or some such so only indirect attacks like AoEs could be used to threaten the squishy players while they're alive.

Which would still be way more troublesome then dealing with an AI-controlled monster.

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Yeah

Players would strategically use their special moves. There would be a strategy for monsters when dealing with parties as there are tactics for dealing with monsters. In XI, you could fire off consecutive special moves, pending the TP cost.

While I know many are turned off by the idea of Limited Jobs, I think a Mimic/Morpher job that can turn into various NPCs, humanoid enemies, Primals and monsters has a lot of potential.

Imagine a job where you could heal as Lakshmi or Kan-E-Senna, tank as Forgiven Hypocrisy or Raubahan and dps as Zenos or a Diresaur (to dps) along with dozens of other forms each with their own role and abilities.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

While I know many are turned off by the idea of Limited Jobs, I think a Mimic/Morpher job that can turn into various NPCs, humanoid enemies, Primals and monsters has a lot of potential.

Imagine a job where you could heal as Lakshmi or Kan-E-Senna, tank as Forgiven Hypocrisy or Raubahan and dps as Zenos or a Diresaur (to dps) along with dozens of other forms each with their own role and abilities.

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The forgiven monsters would end up as meme material when you think about it haha.

If something like Monstrosity existed in FFXIV... it would swallow up alllllllll my time. That sounds awesome. I loved becoming monsters in POTD.

I fear if this did exist though, it would go the way of egi-glamours.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

While I know many are turned off by the idea of Limited Jobs, I think a Mimic/Morpher job that can turn into various NPCs, humanoid enemies, Primals and monsters has a lot of potential.

Imagine a job where you could heal as Lakshmi or Kan-E-Senna, tank as Forgiven Hypocrisy or Raubahan and dps as Zenos or a Diresaur (to dps) along with dozens of other forms each with their own role and abilities.

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FFXIV NEEDS THIS JOB, NOT SORRY FOR THE CAPS PEOPLE. Morpher would be awesome. It would be a way to incorporate such a system into mainstream content. Limited jobs are more along the lines of main content.

I am one of those rare people who loves the idea of limited jobs. If Morpher was not a limited job, it would not be healing as anything close to that. Being limited, would allow them to go crazy with forms. Egi exist because SMN is not a limited job. I would absolutely love a Morpher limited job.

Limited job: Morpher or Shapeshifter.
Special content: Monster Island. An island in 4 zones(unique biomes) filled with monsters. You learn how to shapeshift into a small monster and need to collect essence by killing other monsters to unlock new shapeshifting models, but also special traits and abilities. This will allow players to build their own style of monster by unlocking different abilites and traits. Some models/abilities/traits have additional requirements to unlock besides essence, such as certain level with a specific model or kill specific monsters.

Monster players will also be able to attack each other in the zone, but to avoid level stomp you can't attack anyone 5 levels below you unless attacked by them first. Should use the zone instance system to not flood the map with players, each player encounter should be special.

While I can understand the system not working out in the overworld, a separate area in the Golden Saucer could maybe work. We can even have roulettes where players can be either monsters or adventurers and duke it out. That’d be really fun, imo.

As much as I'd love to see Monstrosity return in an updated form, I don't trust the dev team to properly implement an in-depth system from XI anyway. The biggest factor being the wildly different combat styles of both games and the sheer amount of neutering that would have to take place for the system to fit into XIV. At best I would expect some type of mini-game where you play as 1 of 10 (dreaming big) common monsters using 1-3 preset attacks in a psuedo rotation and accomplish really basic goals that don't interact with the overworld or other players at all, basically the roleplay battles they've been doing in the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by TitanMen

It's pretty obvious SE won't implement that because of ethical reasons.

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Reminds me of that outlandish excuse for no cross class glamours because of Final Fantasy lore reasons, but the Final Fantasy mmo before that had Mages walking around in WAR gear sets.