Idea for Dragoon Changes

The Point of this thread is to suggest Changes / Future Adjustments / Expansions

The Changes to Dragoon Since Shadow Bringers has caused an issue with the job.
Currently you have to delay your buffs by 1 GCD in order to line up with raid buffs.
The reason is : The removal of Heavy Thrust.

Heavy Thrust was an ability that was used before the Chaos Thrust rotation, and because it was removed Dragoons Burst has shifted forward 1 GCD, causing this weird miss-alignment with the majority of jobs Buffs, Causing you to use Battle-Litany After Chaos Thrust, (unless you potion Before the pull)

Now the Rotation used to start and end with Heavy Thrust Before but now since it ends with Either and Claw and Wheeling, it makes the rotation longer at the end then it was at the front before, Making it impossible to throw up Battle Litany before Chaos Thrust unless you Triple Weave.

Is there any Possible way DRG's Aura can give it a damage increase but decrease its attack speed? I'd love to see that instead of Dragoon Fighting against itself Clipping that its clipping can be remedied by say making its attack speed 3 seconds a GCD or something. it already increases the damage of High-Jump / Spineshatter Dive, It seems like something that would be sorta QOL considering Dragoons buffing right away doesn't match the window of everyone Elses buffs, (you must buff after 2 GCD's otherwise everything else doesnt match.) I think it would make an Interesting instead of having to hold your buffs until later another interesting effect of this is that it allows GCD Abilities To line up oGCDs better decreasing the random skill-speed thresholds causing clipping and reverse clipping of oGCDs.

Before everyone like "This won't work this is stupid its fine the way it is, etc"

Just try looking at it objectively; there is ways to make it so DRG isn't made "Easy-mode" By Adding Positional attacks to all the attacks At least this solves the issues of Clipping while not effecting DRG's DPS in a major way Besides shifting DPS more over to the OGCDs then combo abilities. which is the central focus of Dragoon as a job anyways the ultimate benefit is all dragoon's abilities round into 3, currently right now your forced to use 2.45-2.5GCD and this has persisted for dragoon always unfortunately.

I'm not advocating for them to buff dragoon - just giving objective feed-back on it's overall design - The biggest issue that the job has been having aligning with raid buffs ever since Stormblood is the fact that Power Surge was removed, Before Power Surge was a buff that was used right away before a potion was used.

I think it would be a solution to fix Clipping, Don't get all mad for just suggesting though. Thanks.



Idea #1- I've ran some Simulations Mathematically and came to the Conclusion that if you buff Blood of the Dragons effect and add a 20% Flat Damage Increase at the cost of 20% GCD, you are buffing Dragon-fire Dive, Geir, Nastrond, Star-diver not to mention the damage from your DOT.

Idea #2 - Gain Results in Dragoon Solving Clipping Issues, Gives Perfect Raid Buff Alignment, Makes up for the loss of Heavy Thrust Indirectly.

Idea #3 - Dragoon is oGCD Heavy Already, if you increased damage output by the a flat amount, all oGCDs will be getting indirectly buffed.
Nastrod and Jump are the biggest damage Dealers for oGCDs, all the gains end up being near 5% which is around 825 DPS, I Wouldn't call that "Negligible" hell i wouldnt even call it net-neutral

Other Balance Ideas / Expansions :

Why isn't Life Surge changed to flat damage increase? Ensures Critical Direct Hit Damage, OR Flat 30%


Raiden thrust happens after Fang and Claw. and "Skewer" After Wheeling Thrust Requirements are met.
Re-instate Impulse Drive to turn into Skewer if Wheeling Thrust is hit , Skewers effect = Increase Potency of next High Jump by 10% - It lines up with the jump window and is easily punishable.



Idea #4 GIVE DRAGOON MORE REACH, Yeah just even 10% more reach would make sense, it doesn't make sense for a pole-arm not to have the advantage a pole-arm has its additional reach, Ninja has Movespeed up for flavor so why doesn't dragoon have more reach for flavor?


All these ideas are ideas and aren't absolute for changes and don't need to be implemented ASAP or even at all, they are just ideas.

You should be potting pre-pull, which is nothing new. Bard has to do it due to how busy their opener is.

Your opener should be:

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/...ly/DRG-Openers

There is some wiggle room. I've seen a handful of Dragoons switch their potion with Dragon Sight; using the latter at 1 second pre-pull.

Delaying our GCD would require a fairly significantly damage increase to compensate for just how severe .5 seconds would be. That adds up to a GCD loss for every four. A one second loss on our pot or Dragon Sight is far, far less. Simply put, it isn't really needed though I may be among the few Dragoons who still sorta miss Heavy Thrust.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

You should be potting pre-pull, which is nothing new. Bard has to do it due to how busy their opener is.

Your opener should be:

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/...ly/DRG-Openers

There is some wiggle room. I've seen a handful of Dragoons switch their potion with Dragon Sight; using the latter at 1 second pre-pull.

Delaying our GCD would require a fairly significantly damage increase to compensate for just how severe .5 seconds would be. That adds up to a GCD loss for every four. A one second loss on our pot or Dragon Sight is far, far less. Simply put, it isn't really needed though I may be among the few Dragoons who still sorta miss Heavy Thrust.

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This isn't an Inquiry about how to do the opener : It's an Inquiry about Exploration into better lining up dragoons buffs beyond what is possible with the current rotation, even with that rotation Dragoons buffs end up 1 GCD Before everyone else's.

Besides that, nobody even uses the 2.35, or 2.36 Sets because they work better on paper then they seem to work in practice due to the down times in fights for transitions that cannot be properly calculated on paper.
Theoretically Speaking the 2.36 and 2.35 rotation deals more damage then the 2.5 Set, but in Practice the 2.34 set deals more damage then the 2.35 and 2.36 sets, but deals less then the 2.5 set depending if you have a Scholar or not.

Currently nobody in the top 10 spot runs the 2.36 or 2.35 sets due to this issue, it's better on paper but its not better in Practice, On Paper the Best Dragoon set is the 2.38 Set.

The Point of slowing down dragoon GCD is to allow there to be an increase in damage in OGCD abilities, of course slowing it down will give them a damage boost, look at Monk for Example with fist of fire before it was changed, It used to slow down their GCD, an ability that slow downs DRGs GCD while increasing Damage Output is the perfect ability for the class and remedies the issues with Clipping GCDs this isn't an Issue of "L2P DRG" , It's an Solution to DRGs Constant Issue with Clipping Abilities ... This is beyond that it's about realigning the buff window to what it used to be - There's plenty of dragoons that either use Potion where dragon-sight is in your rotation, but there is only 10 people in the top 50 that use 2.36 sets.../

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renkei

This isn't an Inquiry about how to do the opener : It's an Inquiry about Exploration into better lining up dragoons buffs beyond what is possible with the current rotation, even with that rotation Dragoons buffs end up 1 GCD Before everyone else's.

Besides that, nobody even uses the 2.35, or 2.36 Sets because they work better on paper then they seem to work in practice due to the down times in fights for transitions that cannot be properly calculated on paper.
Theoretically Speaking the 2.36 and 2.35 rotation deals more damage then the 2.5 Set, but in Practice the 2.34 set deals more damage then the 2.35 and 2.36 sets, but deals less then the 2.5 set depending if you have a Scholar or not.

Currently nobody in the top 10 spot runs the 2.36 or 2.35 sets due to this issue, it's better on paper but its not better in Practice, On Paper the Best Dragoon set is the 2.38 Set.

The Point of slowing down dragoon GCD is to allow there to be an increase in damage in OGCD abilities, of course slowing it down will give them a damage boost, look at Monk for Example with fist of fire before it was changed, It used to slow down their GCD, an ability that slow downs DRGs GCD while increasing Damage Output is the perfect ability for the class and remedies the issues with Clipping GCDs this isn't an Issue of "L2P DRG" , It's an Solution to DRGs Constant Issue with Clipping Abilities ... This is beyond that it's about realigning the buff window to what it used to be - There's plenty of dragoons that either use Potion where dragon-sight is in your rotation, but there is only 10 people in the top 50 that use 2.36 sets.../

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Yes, I'm aware. Which is why I also addressed the fact slowing Dragoon's GCD down would require significantly buffing their oGCDs. .5 is nothing to snuff at. And this is all to save one extra second on Dragon Sight or your pot. Put another way, the loss is completely negligible.

As for the opener, you missed the arrow in the image. It isn't showcasing the 2.35 opener but saying "if your SkS is 2.36 or higher do this opener; if it's 2.35 or lower, do this opener instead." And you mean Riddle of Fire, the ability that almost every Monk despised so much they abandoned it in 5.05? I don't think that's a good example.

It's a perfectly Valid Example. It's not just 1 second, It's 3.5 seconds, Check all Instances of the Savage Battles logged if you need more infromation in the GCD Timings, Riddle of Fire Increase GCD and raised over-all damage.

This was Mentioned in the OP - I Didn't want to hand hold to give examples for math but fine here's a logical Conclusion for you, If you increase the GCD by 20% for example, then you increase damage output by 20% by Buffing Blood of the Dragon.

This Dynamically changes the opener

Example 1- I've ran some Simulations Mathematically and came to the Conclusion that if you buff Blood of the Dragons effect and add a 20% Flat Damage Increase at the cost of 20% GCD, you are buffing Dragon-fire Dive, Geir, Nastrond, Star-diver not to mention the damage from your DOT.

Example 2 - Gain Results in Dragoon Solving Clipping Issues, Gives Perfect Raid Buff Alignment, Makes up for the loss of Heavy Thrust Indirectly.

Example 3 - Dragoon is oGCD Heavy Already, if you increased damage output by the a flat amount, all oGCDs will be getting indirectly buffed. Nastrod and Jump are the biggest damage Dealers for oGCDs, all the gains end up being near 5% which is around 825 DPS, I Wouldn't call that "Negligible" hell i wouldnt even call it net-neutral

off topic Balance Inquiry : Why isn't Life Surge changed to flat damage increase?

I can see Life Surge in the future being changed to being a DH+Crit. Maybe with a trait at 87 or something.

I was hoping that was the adjustment they were going to do in the last balance adjustment, but they just ended up buffing Geir and what not instead ;[

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renkei

It's a perfectly Valid Example. It's not just 1 second, It's 3.5 seconds, Check all Instances of the Savage Battles logged if you need more infromation in the GCD Timings, Riddle of Fire Increase GCD and raised over-all damage.

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You're not reading what I'm saying. I didn't say it wasn't plausible but rather Monk mains despised it. Therefore, giving Dragoon a permanent version of an ability Monk players hated isn't a good idea.

And all because you're trying to save a single second on your potion or Dragon Sight. It's change for changes sake that will likely piss off people far more than being a welcomed addition. Bards have been pre-pulling potting since Heavensward. It really isn't a big deal.

You aren't offering anything constructive to this thread; I've read all your replies thoroughly and the only argument you have is a straw-man one based on another class which is clearly off topic - I am not interesting in arguments.

[QUOTE=Renkei;5271897]You aren't offering anything constructive to this thread; I've read all your replies thoroughly and the only argument you have is a straw-man one based on another class which is clearly off topic - I am not interesting in arguments./QUOTE]

If you got no interesting in arguements why did you argue above

Bad idea. DRG is already a low CPM job, making it even slower isn't ideal. Actually, it would feel terrible to play. And for what? Just for a slightly more elegant cd alignment? Not worth it, especially given how buff synergy was significantly reduced in SB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renkei

You aren't offering anything constructive to this thread; I've read all your replies thoroughly and the only argument you have is a straw-man one based on another class which is clearly off topic - I am not interesting in arguments.

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It isn't a straw-man to compare an idea you brought up to one that already existed prior, and was much maligned by the playerbase. At this point, you're just upset I've pointed out your suggestions are neither necessary nor beneficial.

If a solution exists outside of slowing down the rotation then why not just remove all raid buffs all together, or just have each class have 1 raid buff instead they could always just give DRG Power Surge Back -

Also, I am here to offer constructive criticism about the jobs design this includes offering solutions and suggesting alternative ideas for people to look into - it's by no means absolute and i only wish to offer ideas to the community so perhaps we can expand upon the job.

@ForteNightshade
I actually don't care about my ideas being misaligned with the player-base : They are just ideas i do not speak for the community as a whole and neither do you the only one that seems upset here is you, If you don't agree with the format of this thread then why not input suggestions so we can make a comprehensible list? I am interested in what you think could improve the over-all experience of the job - not as a balance adjustment but as future content and expansions. so far you just keep saying "your wrong that won't work" This isn't about simply 1 balance adjustment i will thoroughly adjust the OP so it encourages constructive feed-back instead.