No one should be allowed to queue without a soul stone if applicable.

There needs to be some form of soft lock on your duty finder with the class you're on if you're level 30 and don't have your job stone equipped. I had a case today where we had a thaumaturge in Alexander 8, Burdan of the Son..... Their reply was "too lazy to get the BLM stone" when asked why they're a thaumaturge. I'm sorry but this should not be a thing... If this was anywhere from 30-50 I can see why they might not have known about it or maybe they forgot or they're new to understanding to set their stone with their class change..... But level 60 content and you're joining people's parties with this?....

Can we get a lock on roulettes if you're applying as a class that is well beyond level 30 and makes you unable to queue until it is completed and you have one equipped or something? For example, I can queue as a paladin.... but if I swap to my level 40 archer, it won't let me queue as it? This is just silly and we cant just kick them because there's a 5 minute wait and it doesn't classify as "harassment/afk/offline/etc".

I used to troll with friends in heavenward and early stormblood in alliance roulette on pugilist, gladiator counjeror ect. Did just fine in clearing the content and did better than most people WITH their job stone's. Its level 60 content why are you tripping about a jobless guy lol.

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Originally Posted by Darty123

I used to troll with friends in heavenward and early stormblood in alliance roulette on pugilist, gladiator counjeror ect. Did just fine in clearing the content and did better than most people WITH their job stone's. Its level 60 content why are you tripping about a jobless guy lol.

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How about one trying to sneak into your savage party.

Considering they said BLU can't duty finder because they can just lack skills, it's weird they don't enforce that same ruling for anything else.

A level 60 THM is missing key spells from both the single and aoe rotations of an actual BLM. Single target is missing B3, T3, B4, and F4, aoe is missing freeze and flare. Also missing Eno and several other cooldowns. Without doing the actual math, that feels like a character capable of maxing out doing roughly 33-40% of the damage of an actual BLM. I get messing around with friends, but if that guy was for real someone needs to help him understand what a difference it is. OP, this sounds like a justifiable kick under the difference of playstyles criteria. Of course, waiting out the 5 mins would mean youd have to wipe once and he still could get carried if you succeed in spite of him.

I assume it's something to do with spaghetti coding, and how classes and jobs are programmed to be seen as "separate classes" rather than one being an extension of the other. (For example: not being able to equip/remove your soulstone mid-dungeon because you're not allowed to "change class" from the one you queued with; also not being able to complete conjurer's unicorn mount quest as a white mage.)

It may not be possible to bar classes from selected duties while allowing them to access others. Either that or they're clinging to the "classes are equally viable as jobs" mindset, but everything else suggests they abandoned that approach long ago.

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Originally Posted by Darty123

I used to troll with friends in heavenward and early stormblood in alliance roulette on pugilist, gladiator counjeror ect. Did just fine in clearing the content and did better than most people WITH their job stone's. Its level 60 content why are you tripping about a jobless guy lol.

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I suppose if those lvl 60s with job stone were just deadbrain-ing their job, then yes, anyone who puts in effort will be better than them.

And you were with friends, yes? Surely that's whole other dynamic than being with complete strangers.

Yes please. I luckily never witnessed this but I'd never want to.
Something like: above 30, only jobs can queue.

I made the same suggestion on the French forum a while ago, following a Copied Factory run with my tank and my co healer without their soul stones. They were only there to troll the others, and it was fucking boring and frustrating.

Honestly, I have nothing against people who wants to troll with their friends, but, do that only with a premade team. It's funny for you to troll the others, that's not for them. Should be allowed to remove and queue for contents without stones only if premade, or PF, just like the ilvl.

EDIT :

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Originally Posted by Valic

we cant just kick them because there's a 5 minute wait and it doesn't classify as "harassment/afk/offline/etc".

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And the famous « I open the chests and don't roll the loots so you still can't kick me »

Anything past Brayflox should require a job stone to queue in Duty Finder. The quest lines surrounding that and building up to Titan should include the Company of Heroes requiring the player to go get their stone as part of their tests.

Something like this happened before if I recall correctly except when they were asked why they are on the base class, they said it was an accident and cannot equip their Soul Crystal on duty. Might as well restrict being able to queue as to avoid accidents like this because it isn't fun for both the player (assuming this was an "accident") and the teammates.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I assume it's something to do with spaghetti coding, and how classes and jobs are programmed to be seen as "separate classes" rather than one being an extension of the other. (For example: not being able to equip/remove your soulstone mid-dungeon because you're not allowed to "change class" from the one you queued with; also not being able to complete conjurer's unicorn mount quest as a white mage.)

It may not be possible to bar classes from selected duties while allowing them to access others. Either that or they're clinging to the "classes are equally viable as jobs" mindset, but everything else suggests they abandoned that approach long ago.

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The PvP category of DF would like to have a word with you.

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Originally Posted by Valic

There needs to be some form of soft lock on your duty finder with the class you're on if you're level 30 and don't have your job stone equipped. I had a case today where we had a thaumaturge in Alexander 8, Burdan of the Son..... Their reply was "too lazy to get the BLM stone" when asked why they're a thaumaturge. I'm sorry but this should not be a thing... If this was anywhere from 30-50 I can see why they might not have known about it or maybe they forgot or they're new to understanding to set their stone with their class change..... But level 60 content and you're joining people's parties with this?....

Can we get a lock on roulettes if you're applying as a class that is well beyond level 30 and makes you unable to queue until it is completed and you have one equipped or something? For example, I can queue as a paladin.... but if I swap to my level 40 archer, it won't let me queue as it? This is just silly and we cant just kick them because there's a 5 minute wait and it doesn't classify as "harassment/afk/offline/etc".

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For now, u can enqueue with the require stuff from other job and remove after inside.
It's just a half solution.

I think this should be a requirement. Either asking for a job stone at least before Titan, or at least 35+, is not asking a lot. I can see why they don't want to hard cap it at 30 flat to give new players some flexibility, though really if you are in your 40s and above without a job stone you should not be allowed to queue at all. At some point I hope they remove job stones on a mechanical level entirely (but keeping them narratively), though right now they would need to change SMN and SCH to make that work since they can equip the same low level tomes.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I assume it's something to do with spaghetti coding, and how classes and jobs are programmed to be seen as "separate classes" rather than one being an extension of the other. (For example: not being able to equip/remove your soulstone mid-dungeon because you're not allowed to "change class" from the one you queued with; also not being able to complete conjurer's unicorn mount quest as a white mage.)

It may not be possible to bar classes from selected duties while allowing them to access others. Either that or they're clinging to the "classes are equally viable as jobs" mindset, but everything else suggests they abandoned that approach long ago.

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Nah. PvP already has this limitation. You need to be a non-BLU job to queue. As full jobs by definition start at level 30 at the earliest, that means PvP is essentially asking you to be at least level 30 with a job stone equipped. On a technical level job stones are considered equipment, and equipment is validated before you queue. That's why you can't queue for something where your ilevel is too low.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

On a technical level job stones are considered equipment, and equipment is validated before you queue. That's why you can't queue for something where your ilevel is too low.

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Hmm, I wonder if it's possible to assign job stones a scaling ilevel like the aetheryte earring? It would keep pace with your current level, but not having one would severely impact your average gear level.

I wish I could remember his name, as it was something that obviously stated his intentions (for example: No Job), but I ran into a guy that was almost fully leveled in all of the base classes, while having done exactly zero of the job quests so they were never unlocked.

It was on purpose, and I commend him for taking the time to have fun with the game in that regard.

I don't get why people think it's fun to troll by getting in content without their soul stone. It's important to have it equipped, even if it's "only level 60 content".

I agree we should have a restriction of some sort. Might be funny to say that you're a druid because you didn't put your White Mage stone in a lvl60 raid content, it's still trolling and thus, annoying to the rest of the team.

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Originally Posted by Naoki34

For now, u can enqueue with the require stuff from other job and remove after inside.
It's just a half solution.

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I don't understand. What? If you're implying I leave the duty, I'd rather not take the penalty.

I hope everyday for another meteor to delete classes.

To be honest, while it was fun to mess around on classes back in ARR and HW days, a lot of what made that fun (all the cross-class for example) are long gone. Jobs should be folded into classes and the upgrade made automatic and irreversible.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Anything past Brayflox should require a job stone to queue in Duty Finder. The quest lines surrounding that and building up to Titan should include the Company of Heroes requiring the player to go get their stone as part of their tests.

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YES! This would be a Godsend for new players who may not know that after 30 You have to unlock your job! Maybe add a quest where after the banquet and before you go fight Titan, he tells you about a rumor he's heard about soul crystals, and tells you to go see your class guildmaster to ask about it. From there, you're sent off to get your job soul crystal.

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Originally Posted by Malmstrom

I wish I could remember his name, as it was something that obviously stated his intentions (for example: No Job), but I ran into a guy that was almost fully leveled in all of the base classes, while having done exactly zero of the job quests so they were never unlocked.

It was on purpose, and I commend him for taking the time to have fun with the game in that regard.

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There really should be an achievement for that and a title. :D

I agree, but only after lvl 30. That would make the most sense to me.

Not everybody knows how to get a soul stone - and that's okay. You're valid even if you don't have a soul stone. Please show more compassion towards those who do not have the means to acquire soul stones, OP. Not everybody has the same privilege as you.

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Originally Posted by TitanMen

Not everybody knows how to get a soul stone - and that's okay. You're valid even if you don't have a soul stone. Please show more compassion towards those who do not have the means to acquire soul stones, OP. Not everybody has the same privilege as you.

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If your intentions are to be funny I am sorry you have not succeeded, though if you just want attention I guess general discussion has been quite the impressive haul for you.

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Originally Posted by TitanMen

Not everybody knows how to get a soul stone - and that's okay. You're valid even if you don't have a soul stone. Please show more compassion towards those who do not have the means to acquire soul stones, OP. Not everybody has the same privilege as you.

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1. Everyone has the ability to get a soul stone before they unlock Brayflox's Longstop.
2. The Scenario Guide HUD element points you to your class and job quests as they become available.

There is no good reason not to have a job unlocked by the time you get to Brayflox's Longstop, and not having a job makes content take longer for everyone you're grouped with.

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Originally Posted by TitanMen

Not everybody knows how to get a soul stone - and that's okay. You're valid even if you don't have a soul stone. Please show more compassion towards those who do not have the means to acquire soul stones, OP. Not everybody has the same privilege as you.

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Should you be doing your classes quests every 5 levels, you'll get the stone. It's not a matter of a privilege of whatnot.

Also, there's a difference between not having your stone in Brayflox's Longstop and not having your stone in Dun Scaith. I'll accept someone being lost and not knowing you need a soul stone around Brayflox, I mean, sure, it happens, whatever. But if somebody is still a Marauder in a raid like Dun Scaith, I'll consider it as trolling.

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Originally Posted by TitanMen

Not everybody knows how to get a soul stone - and that's okay. You're valid even if you don't have a soul stone. Please show more compassion towards those who do not have the means to acquire soul stones, OP. Not everybody has the same privilege as you.

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Of course you're valid.

By yourself.

With no randoms

Friends only or people who agreed beforehand.

Totally.

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Originally Posted by TitanMen

Not everybody knows how to get a soul stone - and that's okay. You're valid even if you don't have a soul stone. Please show more compassion towards those who do not have the means to acquire soul stones, OP. Not everybody has the same privilege as you.

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In HW, you have to do your job quests to unlock your skills (I dunno if SE changed something about that since ShB tbh). Which means, get your soul stone to learn them. If you are lvl 60+ without soul stone and don't know what it is, yes, it's a problem. I don't get why talking about compassion. Like others said, there is a difference between a player lvl 30 who starts the game and don't know what it is, and one lvl60+.

There is a bit of an issue though with the jobs that physically can't remove their job stones at all. That and there is nothing stopping you from being able to remove the stone and que. A "simple" solution would be to make it that all ques require a job stone at 50+. But codingwise that might be easier said than done.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

There is a bit of an issue though with the jobs that physically can't remove their job stones at all. That and there is nothing stopping you from being able to remove the stone and que. A "simple" solution would be to make it that all ques require a job stone at 50+. But codingwise that might be easier said than done.

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I would prefer to get rid of classes actually, and just have the job soul stones (as they appear in the cutscenes) as trinkets or relics that have no proper gameplay element tied to them. That would be a nice occasion to finally separate SMN from SCH so that both can work in their own way.

Also, if they managed to add to DF "cannot queue as a Limited Job", I don't see why they could not apply "cannot queue as basic class" for dungeons 30 and up.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

I would prefer to get rid of classes actually, and just have the job soul stones (as they appear in the cutscenes) as trinkets or relics that have no proper gameplay element tied to them. That would be a nice occasion to finally separate SMN from SCH so that both can work in their own way.

Also, if they managed to add to DF "cannot queue as a Limited Job", I don't see why they could not apply "cannot queue as basic class" for dungeons 30 and up.

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Classes cannot be removed from the game, as they are too ingrained in the coding, system, and lore at this point. Which is why they are moving past them as a whole. Besides they do add some character with their unique connections to various jobs.

As for SMN and SCH, they are already split. It may not look it, but they already separated the two. They can't completely tear them apart for various reasons, but they are not connected as they once were. This is part of the reason why people are annoyed that Physick on SMN still sucks, since it's not ghe same version SCH uses now. The only spell they share is Resurrection.

As for the coding, I'm sure it isn't as hard as I might think. But, I don't wanna say it like I know, since I don't know coding at all.

had a Archer in cape westwind the other day

but no where near as bad as the time i saw a Archer and Arcanist in Kefka normal

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Anything past Brayflox should require a job stone to queue in Duty Finder. The quest lines surrounding that and building up to Titan should include the Company of Heroes requiring the player to go get their stone as part of their tests.

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I really like this idea. It would build the reasoning into the lore perfectly.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Classes cannot be removed from the game, as they are too ingrained in the coding, system, and lore at this point. Which is why they are moving past them as a whole. Besides they do add some character with their unique connections to various jobs.

As for SMN and SCH, they are already split. It may not look it, but they already separated the two. They can't completely tear them apart for various reasons, but they are not connected as they once were. This is part of the reason why people are annoyed that Physick on SMN still sucks, since it's not ghe same version SCH uses now. The only spell they share is Resurrection.

As for the coding, I'm sure it isn't as hard as I might think. But, I don't wanna say it like I know, since I don't know coding at all.

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I kind of expected the lore reply yes. Well, I would not expect them to get rid of class guilds and stuff, just deleting class as a thing that can coexist with jobs. Getting the level 30 job quest shoudl essentially "upgrade" your class into your job with no turning back.


For SMN/SCH I was thinking of broader concepts. ShB did separate these jobs a bit further but there are still Aetherflow mechanics in SMN for instance, although they are not tied to anything anymore. We could just have Fester / Painflare on the same CD and work just fine. They still share the same EXP bar too. SCH's Ruin II feels odd to me when you don't have other Ruin spells.
While they could make one job the continuation of ACN, and the other one a stand alone job...
Anyway, that's not a priority we can agree on that :)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Hmm, I wonder if it's possible to assign job stones a scaling ilevel like the aetheryte earring? It would keep pace with your current level, but not having one would severely impact your average gear level.

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That would not be enough. A character decked out in ShB endgame gear (i470) but with one of 13 equipment slots empty would still have an average ilevel of 434. Even basic Lv80 gear would result in i397, allowing that person to queue for any StB content. The soulstone slot would need to have a ridiculously high weight compared to other slots to lock players without a stone into content where not having a stone is appropriate.

In fact, I'm not sure if having the soulstone equipped is enough either. Someone intending to troll could get the stone but then not do any further job quests, depriving themselves of several key abilities. I wonder how that would work actually? Would a Lv64 WHM without the Lv54 job quest have both Stone II and Stone IV, since the latter is obtained without a quest but Stone III in between and the trait which upgrades II to III are from a quest?

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Anything past Brayflox should require a job stone to queue in Duty Finder. The quest lines surrounding that and building up to Titan should include the Company of Heroes requiring the player to go get their stone as part of their tests.

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This would be pretty nice. Actually, having a Soul Crystal should be a requirement to unlock the quest The Things We Do for Cheese. That would be the easiest way to force people to go and do their class quests. they could also add some dialogs if a player don't have one, like:

"Ok bitch, i'll be honest, as far i see, you don't look like a capable someone to me so... come back when you have learned actually useful stuff".

Followed by a system message like:

"in order to take the Main Scenario Quest The Things We Do for Cheese, you must first fullfill the following requirements:
- Be at level 32
- Have finished your level 30 class quest
- Have a Soul Crystal equiped
"

Something that i think it could help would be making every single gear piece past a certain level (maybe 50, since it's when gear takes the Fending, Healing, Striking, Maimming, Scouting, Aiming, Casting route) to be usable only for jobs; not just AF gear and Relic weapons, but everything. This way people will be forced to have a Soul Crystal equiped if they want to enter to any Duty past that level, since they won't be able to raise their ilvl (and all duties have an ilvl requirement now, which is nice).

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Classes cannot be removed from the game, as they are too ingrained in the coding, system, and lore at this point. Which is why they are moving past them as a whole. Besides they do add some character with their unique connections to various jobs.

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Oh, they could most certainly remove them. It's just a matter of time and money, which they want to spend on other things.

I got a dumb question.

If job abilities aren't available until level 30 anyway, then why couldn't they just give you the job crystal as soon as you unlock the class? Outside of maybe a minor and inconsequential stat difference, how is a level 10 DRG different from a level 10 LNC?

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Originally Posted by DumdogsWorld

If job abilities aren't available until level 30 anyway, then why couldn't they just give you the job crystal as soon as you unlock the class? Outside of maybe a minor and inconsequential stat difference, how is a level 10 DRG different from a level 10 LNC?

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Lore reasons. Soul crystals are somewhat rare and precious, so they're not handed out to just any rookie who comes waltzing in. In some class storylines like scholar's they're all but lost and you need to go to a great deal of trouble to obtain them.

I'm fine with some leeway, new players might not realize the importance of getting it right at 30.

But by the time you're at 50 (if not 40 or 45) it should really be required.